| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable 23:15 - Nov 7 with 7585 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
Martin Luther King quoting his father.
We can all take a lot from that quote can't we? |  |
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 16:28 - Nov 8 with 2843 views | giant_stow |
Centrist bollox. |  |
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 17:39 - Nov 8 with 2776 views | monytowbray |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 16:17 - Nov 8 by CrayonKing |
Here's hoping!
Whilst Biden certainly isn't the long-term solution, yesterday feels like the scrappy 1-0 win that's stopped the rot. Hopefully we can go on a run of form now and maybe save ourselves |
Perfect analogy that. The USA just sacked Jewell and got Mick basically, he’ll sort the mess out but likely won’t do what’s needed to get to the next level, and like Mick it’ll all end in tears. |  |
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 19:27 - Nov 8 with 2749 views | Melford |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 10:38 - Nov 8 by BlueBadger |
We've spent years indulging the Very Real Concerns of the terminally stupid and prejudiced. What it's led us to is celebrating the departure of a white supremacist from the presidency of the world's most powerful nation across the Atlantic and a rabble of incompetent bigots leading us from disaster to disaster.
What we SHOULD be encouraging people to do maybe is encouraging people to engage with their brains, sense of empathy, compassion and critical thinking faculties a tad more, maybe. [Post edited 8 Nov 2020 11:10]
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Hopefully things will change now, I remember that picture of Trump and Farage in Trump's gold lift shaking hands when he got elected and was probably the lowest point. Boris has been completely found out and discredited by pretty much everything he's done in office, Trump has been voted out overwhelmingly, Nigel has changed his Brexit Party into an anti-lockdown party desperately trying to keep the gammons sending him money for "standing up for them" but is a busted flush.
I hope we're ushering in a new age in politics where things are more sensible and considered instead of who shouts loudest. Joe Biden and Keir Starmer talking together as heads of state would be a massive upgrade on Boris and Trump doing the same thing. |  |
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 19:56 - Nov 8 with 2726 views | gordon |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 10:38 - Nov 8 by BlueBadger |
We've spent years indulging the Very Real Concerns of the terminally stupid and prejudiced. What it's led us to is celebrating the departure of a white supremacist from the presidency of the world's most powerful nation across the Atlantic and a rabble of incompetent bigots leading us from disaster to disaster.
What we SHOULD be encouraging people to do maybe is encouraging people to engage with their brains, sense of empathy, compassion and critical thinking faculties a tad more, maybe. [Post edited 8 Nov 2020 11:10]
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Those populist elites are going to have to do some soul searching now over how they lost touch with the hearts and minds of the un-dispossessed metropolitan middle of the road voter. They've been treated as irrelevant and their concerns ignored for so long by the media and politicians, and now they've given the establishment a bloody nose. |  | | |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 20:23 - Nov 8 with 2693 views | NewcyBlue |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 13:21 - Nov 8 by Trequartista |
Might be worth making this a sticky. |
I’ve had better things to masturbate over... |  |
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 20:38 - Nov 8 with 2683 views | CoachRob |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 19:56 - Nov 8 by gordon |
Those populist elites are going to have to do some soul searching now over how they lost touch with the hearts and minds of the un-dispossessed metropolitan middle of the road voter. They've been treated as irrelevant and their concerns ignored for so long by the media and politicians, and now they've given the establishment a bloody nose. |
I'm guessing you were being ironic when you said populist elites will do some soul searching. The answer will be more funding of anti-science through political think-tanks, economic think-tanks and the media.
The Great Barrington Declaration (a 'solution' to Covid-19) is just one example of pseudoscience funded by economic think-tanks which, in turn, are funded by climate change denying elites such as the Charles Koch Foundation. |  | | |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 22:00 - Nov 8 with 2647 views | monytowbray |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 19:56 - Nov 8 by gordon |
Those populist elites are going to have to do some soul searching now over how they lost touch with the hearts and minds of the un-dispossessed metropolitan middle of the road voter. They've been treated as irrelevant and their concerns ignored for so long by the media and politicians, and now they've given the establishment a bloody nose. |
Hang on, are you trying to credit “Centralists” for Biden’s victory?
I just want to clarify that because if that’s what you mean could you elaborate?
Edit: Biden’s victory, not Trump. [Post edited 8 Nov 2020 22:16]
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 22:46 - Nov 8 with 2634 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 16:10 - Nov 8 by monytowbray |
The biggest problem for us is we cling onto the idea our democracy could never go wrong.
May 2020 be the wake up call we needed. |
Democracy is the worst system there is bar all the other options. Rarely is there a dictatorship that is not brutal towards all opposition and often they are very discriminatory in their outlook.
The best argument against democracy is to have a conversation with the average voter.
I am all for protest where it is needed and I appreciate the right we have in this country to protest peacefully.
I despair at what the ballot box can turn out. The argument against proportional representation was that extreme parties would get a seat at the table. We are now at the position that we need to argue for it to prevent them gaining (retaining?) complete control. | |
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 23:07 - Nov 8 with 2611 views | monytowbray |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 22:46 - Nov 8 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Democracy is the worst system there is bar all the other options. Rarely is there a dictatorship that is not brutal towards all opposition and often they are very discriminatory in their outlook.
The best argument against democracy is to have a conversation with the average voter.
I am all for protest where it is needed and I appreciate the right we have in this country to protest peacefully.
I despair at what the ballot box can turn out. The argument against proportional representation was that extreme parties would get a seat at the table. We are now at the position that we need to argue for it to prevent them gaining (retaining?) complete control. |
We have similar problems with FPTP as the USA does with the EC. I guess at least our lines are drawn though and we don’t have all the gerrymandering.
I am starting to conclude humans simply are not ready for a global society, it removes too much empathy for source abuse as it’s not on our doorstep. If you had the Primark Sweatshops or destroyed habitats on our own door we’d probably be more inclined to boycott these businesses for their abuses but out of sight and out of mind.
Franchising and chain empires need to be gone too. Go back to the money we spend going back into our own communities and not some billionaire with legal residence in a tax haven.
They tell us they are providing us jobs, when in reality it’s exploitation. | |
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 07:09 - Nov 9 with 2553 views | GlasgowBlue |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 14:35 - Nov 8 by The_Flashing_Smile |
'Why are we doing this again! I stand by my position and I don’t really think you constantly dragging it up is particularly productive."
Isn't you who attacked Callis here? |
No, callis tried, and succeeded, in getting a bite out of me with his “middle class white bits” comment.
Anyway, I’m not back ion here to have the same arguments with callis from six months ago. It’s a waste of my valuable time and it can’t be any fun for people reading the thread, so he’s on the div list. |  |
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 07:24 - Nov 9 with 2535 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 07:09 - Nov 9 by GlasgowBlue |
No, callis tried, and succeeded, in getting a bite out of me with his “middle class white bits” comment.
Anyway, I’m not back ion here to have the same arguments with callis from six months ago. It’s a waste of my valuable time and it can’t be any fun for people reading the thread, so he’s on the div list. |
I think that you will find that the function is called 'ignore'. I think your turn of phrase tells us more about you than Callis. |  |
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 07:33 - Nov 9 with 2524 views | GlasgowBlue |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 07:24 - Nov 9 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I think that you will find that the function is called 'ignore'. I think your turn of phrase tells us more about you than Callis. |
Yes because I’m the first person in the history of TWTD to call the ignore function “the div list” aren’t I? doh
Actually, it’s a phrase introduced by the much missed and departed Dalai Farmer, and since used by just about everybody on here to describe the ignore function.
Your desperation to jump on everything I post banksy makes you look more stupid as each day passes. Although I must thank you for calling me out in the EHRC thread which completely backfired on you. Had you not done so then TWT would still be Glassers free 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 | |
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 08:57 - Nov 9 with 2493 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 07:09 - Nov 9 by GlasgowBlue |
No, callis tried, and succeeded, in getting a bite out of me with his “middle class white bits” comment.
Anyway, I’m not back ion here to have the same arguments with callis from six months ago. It’s a waste of my valuable time and it can’t be any fun for people reading the thread, so he’s on the div list. |
I don't want think about Callis's middle class white bits if I'm honest. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 09:05 - Nov 9 with 2493 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 07:33 - Nov 9 by GlasgowBlue |
Yes because I’m the first person in the history of TWTD to call the ignore function “the div list” aren’t I? doh
Actually, it’s a phrase introduced by the much missed and departed Dalai Farmer, and since used by just about everybody on here to describe the ignore function.
Your desperation to jump on everything I post banksy makes you look more stupid as each day passes. Although I must thank you for calling me out in the EHRC thread which completely backfired on you. Had you not done so then TWT would still be Glassers free 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 |
Awwwww bless! | |
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 09:11 - Nov 9 with 2483 views | Herbivore |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 07:33 - Nov 9 by GlasgowBlue |
Yes because I’m the first person in the history of TWTD to call the ignore function “the div list” aren’t I? doh
Actually, it’s a phrase introduced by the much missed and departed Dalai Farmer, and since used by just about everybody on here to describe the ignore function.
Your desperation to jump on everything I post banksy makes you look more stupid as each day passes. Although I must thank you for calling me out in the EHRC thread which completely backfired on you. Had you not done so then TWT would still be Glassers free 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 |
Jesus wept, Banksy, look at what you've done!!!
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 10:03 - Nov 9 with 2442 views | Darth_Koont |
Good to hear AOC and Klein getting on the front foot straightaway - and I think it bodes well for progressive voices holding the more conservative, Democratic establishment’s feet to the fire. Backed up by a media that doesn’t swallow the status quo’s lines so easily.
Think that’s why the UK is even more the outlier in the developed world right now. Not only do the populist right still hold sway in government but the official opposition and their supporters in the media have no real interest in change (based on no real interest in the underlying social, economic and political issues). |  |
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 10:24 - Nov 9 with 2420 views | WeWereZombies |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 10:03 - Nov 9 by Darth_Koont |
Good to hear AOC and Klein getting on the front foot straightaway - and I think it bodes well for progressive voices holding the more conservative, Democratic establishment’s feet to the fire. Backed up by a media that doesn’t swallow the status quo’s lines so easily.
Think that’s why the UK is even more the outlier in the developed world right now. Not only do the populist right still hold sway in government but the official opposition and their supporters in the media have no real interest in change (based on no real interest in the underlying social, economic and political issues). |
I do not think that England and Wales are the only outliers in the World at the moment (and Scotland does not seem to be from where I am sitting so careful with that broad brush United Kingdom thing now). Poland and Hungary have yet to realise the descent they are describing for example. |  |
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 10:59 - Nov 9 with 2401 views | Darth_Koont |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 10:24 - Nov 9 by WeWereZombies |
I do not think that England and Wales are the only outliers in the World at the moment (and Scotland does not seem to be from where I am sitting so careful with that broad brush United Kingdom thing now). Poland and Hungary have yet to realise the descent they are describing for example. |
Agreed. Yes, I was thinking more about the more established Western world rather than the more recent arrivals.
But as you say, we’re on a par with Hungary and Poland now who at least have the excuse of massive and largely externally wrought change throughout the past 100 years or so. But for us as a supposedly stable and largely unthreatened nation this seems almost completely self-inflicted.
Scottish independence, Irish reunification, Brexit, BLM and volatile climate activism are just the latest in a line of increasingly shrill wake-up calls. And they’re all building on systemic failure and complacency. | |
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 15:20 - Nov 9 with 2341 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 09:11 - Nov 9 by Herbivore |
Jesus wept, Banksy, look at what you've done!!!
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There is a phrase of Blubbers' that comes to mind! | |
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 15:24 - Nov 9 with 2337 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 10:03 - Nov 9 by Darth_Koont |
Good to hear AOC and Klein getting on the front foot straightaway - and I think it bodes well for progressive voices holding the more conservative, Democratic establishment’s feet to the fire. Backed up by a media that doesn’t swallow the status quo’s lines so easily.
Think that’s why the UK is even more the outlier in the developed world right now. Not only do the populist right still hold sway in government but the official opposition and their supporters in the media have no real interest in change (based on no real interest in the underlying social, economic and political issues). |
The 'center' there and here is so far to the right now that it is scary! Yet people keep waffling spurious nonsense about bum cheeks! | |
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 15:57 - Nov 9 with 2318 views | Darth_Koont |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 15:24 - Nov 9 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The 'center' there and here is so far to the right now that it is scary! Yet people keep waffling spurious nonsense about bum cheeks! |
David Graeber (RIP) had the centre pegged. It’s politics that is almost devoid of any real purpose but a plodding continuity - despite that playing into the hands of the populist right.
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 16:13 - Nov 9 with 2308 views | CrayonKing |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 15:57 - Nov 9 by Darth_Koont |
David Graeber (RIP) had the centre pegged. It’s politics that is almost devoid of any real purpose but a plodding continuity - despite that playing into the hands of the populist right.
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Did he have any good ideas for how the left can get elected without the centrists?
Winning the argument is all well and good but you need to be able to win elections too |  | | |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 17:50 - Nov 9 with 2260 views | Darth_Koont |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 16:13 - Nov 9 by CrayonKing |
Did he have any good ideas for how the left can get elected without the centrists?
Winning the argument is all well and good but you need to be able to win elections too |
Perhaps the centre needs to get into the 21st century like most of Europe and actually embrace the left rather than punching it at the first opportunity?
The centrists can and will choose left, right or a centrist party like the LibDems. But if they insist on pushing opposition politics into the middle so it’s not actual opposition but the soft side of the establishment then we guarantee the disillusionment and disenfranchisement that actively feeds into the populist right.
After all, the UK and its problems are a product of politics occupying the center and the right for the last 40 years. The left haven’t been involved in any meaningful sense. | |
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| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 18:22 - Nov 9 with 2240 views | CrayonKing |
| We have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable on 17:50 - Nov 9 by Darth_Koont |
Perhaps the centre needs to get into the 21st century like most of Europe and actually embrace the left rather than punching it at the first opportunity?
The centrists can and will choose left, right or a centrist party like the LibDems. But if they insist on pushing opposition politics into the middle so it’s not actual opposition but the soft side of the establishment then we guarantee the disillusionment and disenfranchisement that actively feeds into the populist right.
After all, the UK and its problems are a product of politics occupying the center and the right for the last 40 years. The left haven’t been involved in any meaningful sense. |
You're right about pretty much all of that, but in the real world you still need people to vote for you before you can change anything.
Moaning that the voters vote the wrong way doesn't really help much. They clearly do - huge chunks of the population don't even know what the hell they're voting for half the time, but unless you can appeal to enough of them somehow you'll never be in a position to fix that.
Unless you're going to somehow manage a revolution then the only way of gaining power is to get better at elections, and that means appealing to more of the electorate - forming alliances with those darn centrists seems like the logical place to start | | | |
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