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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called 17:33 - Nov 9 with 1452 viewsHARRY10

" Fishing cannot wait, as key European states would veto any deal without it. Britain must compromise. As for regulatory alignment, some supervision is unavoidable if two neighbouring countries wish to trade at all. The EU is in the right. It is also bigger and stronger and has less need to compromise, and appears to have the US president-elect, Joe Biden, on its side. The EU can replace most of its trade with Britain. Britain cannot do the reverse. There are no compensating trade deals with the rest of world. They are a fantasy."

read the full article

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/09/boris-johnson-agree-deal-e

it makes for harsh reading, as many of us have been focussed on the US election, and have perhaps lost track of the reality that it is now a matter of days left
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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 19:29 - Nov 9 with 1343 viewsgazzer1999

"The EU can replace most of its trade with Britain. Britain cannot do the reverse." Not sure the car makers in Germany agree with your statement, seeing we are their biggest market.

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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 19:34 - Nov 9 with 1317 viewsBlueBadger

Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 19:29 - Nov 9 by gazzer1999

"The EU can replace most of its trade with Britain. Britain cannot do the reverse." Not sure the car makers in Germany agree with your statement, seeing we are their biggest market.


I'm guessing that they're thinking that the extra hassle of making right hand drives, plus all the red-tape nonsense is going to be more expensive than marketing campaigns elsewhere

Ham>Lam
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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 19:38 - Nov 9 with 1289 viewsgordon

Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 19:29 - Nov 9 by gazzer1999

"The EU can replace most of its trade with Britain. Britain cannot do the reverse." Not sure the car makers in Germany agree with your statement, seeing we are their biggest market.


Yeah, I'm pretty sure the German car-makers are about to step in and sort things out for us.
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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 19:49 - Nov 9 with 1253 viewsPinewoodblue

Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 19:34 - Nov 9 by BlueBadger

I'm guessing that they're thinking that the extra hassle of making right hand drives, plus all the red-tape nonsense is going to be more expensive than marketing campaigns elsewhere


Not sure there any extra hassle associated with the production of right hand drive vehicles.

A better point to make would be that 80% of vehicles manufactured in UK are exported and over 50% of them go to EU Countries and will attract 10% import tax in less than 8 weeks time.

Poll: how many changes to starting 11 v Wcombe

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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 19:50 - Nov 9 with 1250 viewseireblue

Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 19:29 - Nov 9 by gazzer1999

"The EU can replace most of its trade with Britain. Britain cannot do the reverse." Not sure the car makers in Germany agree with your statement, seeing we are their biggest market.


They do agree.

The U.K. is not their biggest market.

Apart from that,....
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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 19:58 - Nov 9 with 1214 viewsCrayonKing

Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 19:29 - Nov 9 by gazzer1999

"The EU can replace most of its trade with Britain. Britain cannot do the reverse." Not sure the car makers in Germany agree with your statement, seeing we are their biggest market.


We're their biggest European *export* market (although from my brief googling it looks like USA and China are slightly above us now). Presumably Germany itself is still their biggest market overall though
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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 21:20 - Nov 9 with 1080 viewsjaykay

Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 19:29 - Nov 9 by gazzer1999

"The EU can replace most of its trade with Britain. Britain cannot do the reverse." Not sure the car makers in Germany agree with your statement, seeing we are their biggest market.


someone else , who believed all the lies brexit fed him. google is a wonderful thing the states and china is their biggest market, followed by the e.u.

bring back callis ,young footers and let phil ham back in the press box

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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 21:31 - Nov 9 with 1063 viewsHARRY10

Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 19:29 - Nov 9 by gazzer1999

"The EU can replace most of its trade with Britain. Britain cannot do the reverse." Not sure the car makers in Germany agree with your statement, seeing we are their biggest market.


It is not my statement, just a quote to give a sense of what the article is about.

And I would point you towards the qualifying word 'most', which covers your concern as to German car manufacturers - who being part of the EU already have trade deals in place that allow them to sell into other markets around the world.

Something the UK will no longer have after 31st Dec, which I think is the point being made in that sentence.
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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 21:39 - Nov 9 with 1041 viewsPinewoodblue

Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 21:20 - Nov 9 by jaykay

someone else , who believed all the lies brexit fed him. google is a wonderful thing the states and china is their biggest market, followed by the e.u.


Germany exports more cars to UK than to any single EU country. They will have to significantly increase their share of a declining market to make up for any loss of sales to UK.

Poll: how many changes to starting 11 v Wcombe

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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 21:51 - Nov 9 with 1006 viewsBluefish

Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 19:29 - Nov 9 by gazzer1999

"The EU can replace most of its trade with Britain. Britain cannot do the reverse." Not sure the car makers in Germany agree with your statement, seeing we are their biggest market.


Not the biggest market top 3 but not biggest

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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 21:56 - Nov 9 with 999 viewseireblue

Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 21:39 - Nov 9 by Pinewoodblue

Germany exports more cars to UK than to any single EU country. They will have to significantly increase their share of a declining market to make up for any loss of sales to UK.


Which they are happy to do. Back in the TWTD Brexit wars, I posted an article from a German manufacturer that said exactly that.

Of course Germany, population 85 Million, is a bigger market.

The EU population, is about 350 Million, is a bigger market. China and US are bigger markets.

Germany, has been somewhat keen on the whole EU project for quite a while.

When people state things like, the UK is their biggest export market, that is really not that important.

Would a Germany car company, rather be supportive of compromising the EU for the sake of one territory that has already left the EU, versus a supporting the larger EU market integrity and having to work for a slight increase in larger markets.

The people that buy high end Germany cars, won’t suddenly stop and buy Vauxhall’s.
They will spend the same on the car, but get slightly lower spec German cars.

So the hit to Germany car manufactures won’t be that large anyway.
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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 22:05 - Nov 9 with 975 viewsHARRY10

Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 21:56 - Nov 9 by eireblue

Which they are happy to do. Back in the TWTD Brexit wars, I posted an article from a German manufacturer that said exactly that.

Of course Germany, population 85 Million, is a bigger market.

The EU population, is about 350 Million, is a bigger market. China and US are bigger markets.

Germany, has been somewhat keen on the whole EU project for quite a while.

When people state things like, the UK is their biggest export market, that is really not that important.

Would a Germany car company, rather be supportive of compromising the EU for the sake of one territory that has already left the EU, versus a supporting the larger EU market integrity and having to work for a slight increase in larger markets.

The people that buy high end Germany cars, won’t suddenly stop and buy Vauxhall’s.
They will spend the same on the car, but get slightly lower spec German cars.

So the hit to Germany car manufactures won’t be that large anyway.


Agreed

However the point being made was that Germany already has the deals in place to expand bi-lateral trade elsewhere - whereas, as it stands, the UK doesn't on the basis that most if the trade it currently does will fall under WTO rules.

It is that impending loss, which is the point being made
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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 07:15 - Nov 10 with 829 viewssolomon

Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 19:38 - Nov 9 by gordon

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the German car-makers are about to step in and sort things out for us.


But this is the big difference between politicians and business leaders, pragmatism.
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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 07:57 - Nov 10 with 800 viewsjimmyvet

Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 07:15 - Nov 10 by solomon

But this is the big difference between politicians and business leaders, pragmatism.


Correct ‘pragmatism’ so as a businessman I would be fighting hard to maintain access to one of my largest and most affluent markets if I was a German car manufacturer to think otherwise is bonkers.

As a remainer I have got over the loss and faced up to the reality we have left and we need to move on. I hope and pray we leave on a deal that is beneficial to all and I think we will because at the end of the day it is in both parties interests. To keep hoping for failure and then to score points with I told you so is absolutely ‘pointless’ and achieves nothing, other than a few congratulations from the various echo chambers online.
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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 09:36 - Nov 10 with 724 viewsHARRY10

Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 07:57 - Nov 10 by jimmyvet

Correct ‘pragmatism’ so as a businessman I would be fighting hard to maintain access to one of my largest and most affluent markets if I was a German car manufacturer to think otherwise is bonkers.

As a remainer I have got over the loss and faced up to the reality we have left and we need to move on. I hope and pray we leave on a deal that is beneficial to all and I think we will because at the end of the day it is in both parties interests. To keep hoping for failure and then to score points with I told you so is absolutely ‘pointless’ and achieves nothing, other than a few congratulations from the various echo chambers online.


I' not sure if you quite get tis.

German car manufacturers will still have access to the UK, as will the UK to the EU - only both sides will pay more in tariffs and form filling.

The deal that is beneficial to all, we already have, only it expires on 1st Jan 2020 - so the UK loses all the free trade deals it enjoys around the world via EU membership. And has been shown it will be nigh on impossible to replicate.

No one keeps hoping for failure, they are merely pointing out what was inevitable... and how each lie now further impacts on the populace.

That you now "hope and pray" says much about this supposed 'oven ready' deal was a lie from the start. All that was claimed from 206 has proven to be a lie, likewise.

And that needs constant pointing out, so the likes of Johnson, Farage etc cannot pass off the biggest lie if all - that they are not responsible for this mess.
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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 09:38 - Nov 10 with 721 viewsSwansea_Blue

Look on the bright side. At least our government are now celebrating taking away our rights to free movement.

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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 09:47 - Nov 10 with 705 viewsPinewoodblue

Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 22:05 - Nov 9 by HARRY10

Agreed

However the point being made was that Germany already has the deals in place to expand bi-lateral trade elsewhere - whereas, as it stands, the UK doesn't on the basis that most if the trade it currently does will fall under WTO rules.

It is that impending loss, which is the point being made


Mercedes manufacture more units in USA and China (combined) than they do in Europe and only a third of those manufactured in Europe are made in Germany.

A significant proportion of Mercedes vehicles made in Germany are for the UK market.

Poll: how many changes to starting 11 v Wcombe

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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 10:58 - Nov 10 with 648 viewsArnoldMoorhen

Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 19:29 - Nov 9 by gazzer1999

"The EU can replace most of its trade with Britain. Britain cannot do the reverse." Not sure the car makers in Germany agree with your statement, seeing we are their biggest market.


Ah, the old "Of course the EU will be begging us for a deal, the German carmakers will force them" chestnut.

You know what? Not having to worry about making right hand drive models of some of their range might come as a welcome relief. It's noticeable already that some of the new electric models available in Europe are not available here.

They really don't need us as much as we need them.
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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 13:32 - Nov 10 with 568 viewsHARRY10

Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 10:58 - Nov 10 by ArnoldMoorhen

Ah, the old "Of course the EU will be begging us for a deal, the German carmakers will force them" chestnut.

You know what? Not having to worry about making right hand drive models of some of their range might come as a welcome relief. It's noticeable already that some of the new electric models available in Europe are not available here.

They really don't need us as much as we need them.


And what percentage of EU exports are German cars ?
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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 16:28 - Nov 10 with 505 viewsbluelagos

Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 10:58 - Nov 10 by ArnoldMoorhen

Ah, the old "Of course the EU will be begging us for a deal, the German carmakers will force them" chestnut.

You know what? Not having to worry about making right hand drive models of some of their range might come as a welcome relief. It's noticeable already that some of the new electric models available in Europe are not available here.

They really don't need us as much as we need them.


Agree with your premise, albeit not with all the details.

Mercedes will still be able to sell cars into the UK market, just that a 10% import tariff will apply.

As it would on all imported cars like Audis, BMW. So UK made cars would have a slight price advantage in the UK market. But given that Mercs will still be available I'd guess they would lose maybe 5% of their UK sales? Hardly going to bankrupt them.

Of course the people who will suffer are the UK manufacturing staff who lose their jobs due to lower exports (again 10% tariffs on cars - other rates on other goods) and the UK consumers who now have to pay more for their cars and all other imported goods.

And UK businesses too. E.G. The car fleet costs will go up and that inevitably gets passed on in higher prices.

Countries have spent years negotiating away tariffs and quotas as a means to improved trade, more jobs, lower prices. Only Tory hard core brexit loons seem to think putting in tariffs and/or quotas is a sensible move.

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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 16:35 - Nov 10 with 485 viewsPinewoodblue

Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 16:28 - Nov 10 by bluelagos

Agree with your premise, albeit not with all the details.

Mercedes will still be able to sell cars into the UK market, just that a 10% import tariff will apply.

As it would on all imported cars like Audis, BMW. So UK made cars would have a slight price advantage in the UK market. But given that Mercs will still be available I'd guess they would lose maybe 5% of their UK sales? Hardly going to bankrupt them.

Of course the people who will suffer are the UK manufacturing staff who lose their jobs due to lower exports (again 10% tariffs on cars - other rates on other goods) and the UK consumers who now have to pay more for their cars and all other imported goods.

And UK businesses too. E.G. The car fleet costs will go up and that inevitably gets passed on in higher prices.

Countries have spent years negotiating away tariffs and quotas as a means to improved trade, more jobs, lower prices. Only Tory hard core brexit loons seem to think putting in tariffs and/or quotas is a sensible move.


I doubt they even thought about it. Remember it was going to be easiest trade deal ever and we would trade tariff free as before.

Poll: how many changes to starting 11 v Wcombe

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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 16:37 - Nov 10 with 482 viewsMonkeyAlan

Stop panicking. Life goes on. Chill. Great Britain will still be here after all this.
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Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 16:42 - Nov 10 with 463 viewsjontysnut

Brexit ......... the bluff has been called on 21:56 - Nov 9 by eireblue

Which they are happy to do. Back in the TWTD Brexit wars, I posted an article from a German manufacturer that said exactly that.

Of course Germany, population 85 Million, is a bigger market.

The EU population, is about 350 Million, is a bigger market. China and US are bigger markets.

Germany, has been somewhat keen on the whole EU project for quite a while.

When people state things like, the UK is their biggest export market, that is really not that important.

Would a Germany car company, rather be supportive of compromising the EU for the sake of one territory that has already left the EU, versus a supporting the larger EU market integrity and having to work for a slight increase in larger markets.

The people that buy high end Germany cars, won’t suddenly stop and buy Vauxhall’s.
They will spend the same on the car, but get slightly lower spec German cars.

So the hit to Germany car manufactures won’t be that large anyway.


I'm not driving a Mini Metro
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