| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? 19:44 - Nov 15 with 5707 views | wkj |
Looking at Bolton and Wigan, I think it is fair to say that Marcus Evans has certainly helped ITFC not financially capitulate. Don't get me wrong, I think he's done a very poor job with organisation and most of his upper management decisions, but for the sake of this exercise, lets assume his position at ITFC is untouchable.
As ITFC fan we've been really vocal on here about managers we don't like, whether its Keane for being horrible, Paul Jewell for being useless, Mick for being boring, Paul Hurst for being like Paul Jewell and Keane combined without the pedigree, and now Lambert for [insert reason here]
I am not saying anyone is wrong for feeling the way they do about the above, but what is the best solution?
A few truths to consider-
-A fair number of our key players in our team are not traditionally reliable for fitness, one injury can destroy a season
- We're not a blank chequebook. In addition to the new salary cap. Transfer fees are relatively sparse.
- We've got a fair number of youth players who should be starting their senior careers
- As polarising as they are, our two most experienced players are at the average retirement age for footballers. (Chambers 35, Skuse 34)
What manager out there could work with those scenarios, provide somewhat entertaining football, and get us back into the championship (and ultimately challenge for the playoffs within 2 seasons as that is a fair number what people would likely expect)
This isn't an exercise in calling people out, but rather how people think when trying to come up with an answer. I am genuinely interested to see where people think we realistically stand for managerial appointments. [Post edited 15 Nov 2020 19:48]
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| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 12:10 - Nov 16 with 2063 views | Chrisd |
| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 09:56 - Nov 16 by itfcjoe |
I listened to the Matt Holland EADT podcast yesterdya, and he said that no manager improved him as much as Burley, and no manager spent the time with him individually trying to improve him as a player
On the Wembley YT documentary, Johnno says about Burley that training was the same thing every week, and felt boring, but now he looks back and sees that GB was ahead of his time.
It's that coaching, that high performance culture. I can't speak for all the players, but the ones who seem to stay back after training now, and always want a ball at their feet are Jack Lankester and Brett McGavin.
It's what you hear from the Class of 92, and more locally the year group with Ambrose, Bent, Westlake, Richards, and a few other very good players who didn't make it here were always honing their skills. Being a similar age as them, if they weren't at the training ground hitting ball after ball, they were playing on the fields round Kesgrave and Martlesham pushing each other on and just playing with whoever was there
We've gone away from having technical players, where everyone is comfortable on the ball |
Is that not a reflection of modern football generally? |  |
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| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 12:20 - Nov 16 with 2056 views | Chrisd |
| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 11:48 - Nov 16 by Herbivore |
I still can't understand why Evans didn't pull the trigger during lockdown. Taking us to relegation and following it up with 11th in League 1 is the most obvious sacking pyure likely to see, and yet he dithered until suddenly the season was upon us and decided to give him another go. Utterly bizarre. Once it was confirmed the season wasn't restarting he should have gone. |
I understand your point here Herbivore, there was certainly something brewing leading up to when the league stopped. At times, I thought PL was making bizarre selections and decisions perhaps hoping to get a reaction from ME? I don't know, just spit balling. Nevertheless, I just look at it from ME's view of point, he's given the manager a 5 year contract (rightly or wrongly) and then literally 2 or 3 months down the line gives him the sack, especially after PH's short tenure here. I don't feel that reflects well on ME or the club and I'm wondering if that is the main reason why PL got the stay of execution because he certainly didn't deserve one the way things were going south and very quickly. Look at our form from early November last year, it was one of a side fighting relegation. | |
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| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 12:58 - Nov 16 with 2040 views | itfcjoe |
| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 12:10 - Nov 16 by Chrisd |
Is that not a reflection of modern football generally? |
I don't think so |  |
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| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 13:03 - Nov 16 with 2032 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 12:10 - Nov 16 by Chrisd |
Is that not a reflection of modern football generally? |
It's the polar opposite to what you are saying isn't it? Centre backs and keepers seem to be judged as much on ability on the ball as defensive capabilities these days. [Post edited 16 Nov 2020 13:05]
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| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 13:05 - Nov 16 with 2029 views | Herbivore |
| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 12:20 - Nov 16 by Chrisd |
I understand your point here Herbivore, there was certainly something brewing leading up to when the league stopped. At times, I thought PL was making bizarre selections and decisions perhaps hoping to get a reaction from ME? I don't know, just spit balling. Nevertheless, I just look at it from ME's view of point, he's given the manager a 5 year contract (rightly or wrongly) and then literally 2 or 3 months down the line gives him the sack, especially after PH's short tenure here. I don't feel that reflects well on ME or the club and I'm wondering if that is the main reason why PL got the stay of execution because he certainly didn't deserve one the way things were going south and very quickly. Look at our form from early November last year, it was one of a side fighting relegation. |
I think it makes us look worse keeping him to be honest, it shows a lack of decisiveness and ambition to keep on a clearly failing manager. Contracts are fairly meaningless, especially where managers are concerned, so the only real relevance of the new deal is the financial aspect of sacking him. Hurst aside, Evans has tended to give his managers time, arguably too much time. The average life span of a manager is short these days, and Lambert has already surpassed his by many months. |  |
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| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 13:30 - Nov 16 with 2013 views | Bluefish |
| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 11:48 - Nov 16 by Herbivore |
I still can't understand why Evans didn't pull the trigger during lockdown. Taking us to relegation and following it up with 11th in League 1 is the most obvious sacking pyure likely to see, and yet he dithered until suddenly the season was upon us and decided to give him another go. Utterly bizarre. Once it was confirmed the season wasn't restarting he should have gone. |
The 2 moments to pull the trigger were
March in his 1st season when it was clear that he completely ballsed up survival
December last season when the wheels had completely come off and it was clear that we were free falling
Why do we have to wait until we splatter on the rocks to make a change? |  |
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| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 13:36 - Nov 16 with 2009 views | Herbivore |
| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 13:30 - Nov 16 by Bluefish |
The 2 moments to pull the trigger were
March in his 1st season when it was clear that he completely ballsed up survival
December last season when the wheels had completely come off and it was clear that we were free falling
Why do we have to wait until we splatter on the rocks to make a change? |
Well quite. It was evident come December he'd lost the plot, when we saw in the new year with him signing a new deal it was just bizarre. | |
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| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 14:10 - Nov 16 with 1990 views | jayessess |
| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 08:43 - Nov 16 by Tangledupin_Blue |
Lambert or Steve Evans? I'll stick, thanks. [Post edited 16 Nov 2020 12:35]
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Evans' Gillingham finished above us last year. |  |
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| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 14:15 - Nov 16 with 1986 views | Chrisd |
| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 13:36 - Nov 16 by Herbivore |
Well quite. It was evident come December he'd lost the plot, when we saw in the new year with him signing a new deal it was just bizarre. |
Leading up to that game away at Wycombe, I was expecting the news that PL was sacked or going to get the tic-tac, but when they announced he'd signed a new contract I was completely stunned. Just went against everything that was happening at that point in time. | |
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| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 14:18 - Nov 16 with 1983 views | Herbivore |
| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 14:15 - Nov 16 by Chrisd |
Leading up to that game away at Wycombe, I was expecting the news that PL was sacked or going to get the tic-tac, but when they announced he'd signed a new contract I was completely stunned. Just went against everything that was happening at that point in time. |
Indeed. I remember the reaction on here (mine included) was a mix of anger and disbelief. He'd presided over 2 months or so without a win in the third division and suddenly he gets a new 5 year deal. Only at Ipswich. | |
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| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 14:23 - Nov 16 with 1980 views | Chrisd |
| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 13:03 - Nov 16 by tractorboy1978 |
It's the polar opposite to what you are saying isn't it? Centre backs and keepers seem to be judged as much on ability on the ball as defensive capabilities these days. [Post edited 16 Nov 2020 13:05]
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Exactly, a reflection of modern football. Look at goalkeepers, they're judged on their ability using their feet because Ederson, Allison, Neuer etc.. are all superb at it. Where the reality should be can they keep the ball out the back of the net? That's their job first and foremost, not whether they can ping a ball 60 yards to the left winger on the touchline. I look at someone like Mark Bosnich, he was a top keeper at Aston Villa, he had good handling, was a decent shot stopper, solid dealing with crosses and brave, but a liability with his feet. Would he even get the opportunity these days because of this limitation? [Post edited 16 Nov 2020 17:15]
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| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 14:35 - Nov 16 with 1971 views | TieDyedIn95 |
No manager will ever succeed here while Evans and his team runs the club.
We've had over a decades worth of proof with 7 managerial appointments and three Chief Executives/DOF's to prove that nothing changes regardless who's in charge now. It won't change unless we have a total overhaul of how the club is run, not just in terms of money but culture and aspiration. Evans is a bare minimum man, which means we exist but that's it, exist. We won't achieve anything while we remain in participation mode.
Change manager all you like it means nothing. |  |
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| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 14:40 - Nov 16 with 1965 views | jayessess |
| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 14:35 - Nov 16 by TieDyedIn95 |
No manager will ever succeed here while Evans and his team runs the club.
We've had over a decades worth of proof with 7 managerial appointments and three Chief Executives/DOF's to prove that nothing changes regardless who's in charge now. It won't change unless we have a total overhaul of how the club is run, not just in terms of money but culture and aspiration. Evans is a bare minimum man, which means we exist but that's it, exist. We won't achieve anything while we remain in participation mode.
Change manager all you like it means nothing. |
Isn't the key figure for "overhauling how the club is run in terms of culture and aspiration" the manager of the first team? | |
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| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 14:41 - Nov 16 with 1964 views | Herbivore |
| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 14:35 - Nov 16 by TieDyedIn95 |
No manager will ever succeed here while Evans and his team runs the club.
We've had over a decades worth of proof with 7 managerial appointments and three Chief Executives/DOF's to prove that nothing changes regardless who's in charge now. It won't change unless we have a total overhaul of how the club is run, not just in terms of money but culture and aspiration. Evans is a bare minimum man, which means we exist but that's it, exist. We won't achieve anything while we remain in participation mode.
Change manager all you like it means nothing. |
Not sure getting out of League 1 counts as success to be honest, but it should be easily achievable even with ME at the helm. | |
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| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 15:00 - Nov 16 with 1945 views | itfcjoe |
| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 14:15 - Nov 16 by Chrisd |
Leading up to that game away at Wycombe, I was expecting the news that PL was sacked or going to get the tic-tac, but when they announced he'd signed a new contract I was completely stunned. Just went against everything that was happening at that point in time. |
Someone sent the message around the players WhatsApp group when they were on the bus on the way to the game and they thought it had been mocked up for a joke.
The reaction wasn't much different amongst the fans - I travelled up with 5 mates, we bumped into another 5 shortly after parking, and then another car load walking up to the ground - no one could quite believe it
I wasn't expecting him to be sacked then, I was hoping for it, but being sacked seemed infinitely more likely than a new deal | |
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| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 15:55 - Nov 16 with 1919 views | RobTheMonk |
Mick did a great job of papering over the cracks. Hurst full on earthquaked them open.
Then we come to Lambert. A virtually identical record to Hurst's first games in charge. Relegation and a season of no wins (maybe 1?) against any of the top 8 teams and some dreadful performances.
Even though Crewe lost the other week, they were fun to watch. That's all I want, some quick free-flowing football. I've seen glimpses but then we end up playing for 10 minutes with just our CB's and GK.
The dream is Kuqi and Pabs but the head knows that would be carnage. Dyer somewhere down the line though... |  | | |
| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 16:20 - Nov 16 with 1907 views | rattram |
| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 11:48 - Nov 16 by Herbivore |
I still can't understand why Evans didn't pull the trigger during lockdown. Taking us to relegation and following it up with 11th in League 1 is the most obvious sacking pyure likely to see, and yet he dithered until suddenly the season was upon us and decided to give him another go. Utterly bizarre. Once it was confirmed the season wasn't restarting he should have gone. |
Now that we are left with just Division 1 games to play, I DEMAND promotion. There can be nowhere to hide if we don't get up, and the sack must follow.
We (again) have a lot of injuries but i'm sure everyone else does, and with a lot of our opponents still in 2 cups we will have some rest days. | | | |
| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 16:30 - Nov 16 with 1902 views | J2BLUE |
We are a club with little direction and little money. To me the obvious solution seems to be a director of football with a focus on the academy and spending the little money we do have on up and coming players from lower leagues. I know people will say that didn't work with Hurst and you could say that but Edwards and Jackson are both worth more than we paid. Harrison had no trouble finding a new club when it didn't work out. You don't need to do much these days for your fee to inflate.
I think we need a genuine long term plan where we stop new managers coming in and having far too much power. We use our younger players and stick to the plan. Would anyone oppose a 10 year plan with the aim of getting to the Premier League? |  |
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| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 16:32 - Nov 16 with 1899 views | Herbivore |
| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 16:20 - Nov 16 by rattram |
Now that we are left with just Division 1 games to play, I DEMAND promotion. There can be nowhere to hide if we don't get up, and the sack must follow.
We (again) have a lot of injuries but i'm sure everyone else does, and with a lot of our opponents still in 2 cups we will have some rest days. |
As a club I'm not sure we can afford to let him fail again this season, and I struggle to see a scenario where Lambert takes us up. | |
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| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 17:27 - Nov 16 with 1874 views | wkj |
| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 08:55 - Nov 16 by GeoffSentence |
Why have you picked Bolton and Wigan as your comparison's?
Why not say Bristol City say, who have historically been smaller than us but bring in commercial income 4 times higher than ours (when we were both in the championship) and are now happily ticking along as a second tier club making a realistic push for the premier league.
Or say, that club which is most similar to our own, dare I say it, you know who I mean, which has managed do yo-yo to and from the premier league over the last decade even though the owner doesn't have a pot to pss in in football terms.
Yes, it is true, we could have done worse than Evans, but not much worse and those two are the only examples of it being worse for a club of this size. There are plenty more doing better. Luton FFS, Millwall, PNE, QPR, Reading, Barnsley, Millwall and Brentford are all clubs we should at least be competing with but who have left us behind in the last 18 years. |
Bolton and Wigan were essentially on my mind purely for the highlight of what happens when there is no rescue from administration. Pretty much to nail down the one thing Evans has impacted for the good.
Beyond that, the comparisons cease. | |
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| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 17:39 - Nov 16 with 1857 views | jayessess |
| Every ITFC manager OUT! So what's the answer then? on 16:30 - Nov 16 by J2BLUE |
We are a club with little direction and little money. To me the obvious solution seems to be a director of football with a focus on the academy and spending the little money we do have on up and coming players from lower leagues. I know people will say that didn't work with Hurst and you could say that but Edwards and Jackson are both worth more than we paid. Harrison had no trouble finding a new club when it didn't work out. You don't need to do much these days for your fee to inflate.
I think we need a genuine long term plan where we stop new managers coming in and having far too much power. We use our younger players and stick to the plan. Would anyone oppose a 10 year plan with the aim of getting to the Premier League? |
Hiring a DOF just shifts the problem from "how to find a manager who's good at recruitment, coaching, motivation and tactics" to, "how to find a manager who's good at coaching, motivation and tactics, plus a DOF who's good at recruitment", doesn't it?
(As it is, I get the impression in any case that Lambert has relatively little to do with the academy and recruitment is collaborative exercise rather than "here's your budget, go recruit") [Post edited 16 Nov 2020 17:41]
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