| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend 15:41 - Nov 17 with 4361 views | wkj |
In the interests of maintaining tradition. I do enjoy Christmas, don't get me wrong - but it is starting to feel like Boris is putting all his chips on delivering a traditional Christmas above all else.
Bypassing the quarantine for the sake of tradition? Its a yikes from me.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54972671 |  |
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| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:34 - Nov 17 with 1504 views | factual_blue |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:01 - Nov 17 by DanTheMan |
Doesn't help that most people just stick it in the oven with no regard for how to actually cook one properly. |
Bit of butter on the skin, a halved lemon inside the carcass. Place bird on a rack in a roasting tin that has a quarter of an inch or so of water in it (make sure the water is below the level of the rack). Loosely cover the bird with foil and roast for the usual 40 mins or so per kilo.
Remove foil for last twenty minutes.
The water will have turned into the most fantastic stock for gravy making. The roast will be nice and moist. And, because of the lemon juice in the stock, you'll have a nice clean roasting tin. |  |
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| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:38 - Nov 17 with 1497 views | J2BLUE |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:34 - Nov 17 by StokieBlue |
I don't think it is nonsense though.
Are we saying that things should simply be weighted based on how many people do them? I don't think that's right, it should be based on evidence. The evidence was that Eid would be a large vector of transmission within that group and thus it was "cancelled".
The evidence is clearly the same for Christmas yet a different approach is taken. It could be argued that Christmas is a far worse vector given more people will be travelling and meeting.
Should celebrating any day have a higher importance than managing the pandemic?
SB |
It shouldn't but I think there is a difference in going all out for Christmas. We're in lockdown. The ZOE app data is suggesting we are past the peak (I know you won't agree, but as i've said, it's been about 4 weeks ahead of confirmed data fairly consistently). We are almost certain to have a continuation of lockdown in all but name for another 2-3 weeks before Christmas. Chances are that it could be a lot better by then. Lets wait and see.
If things are still really bad the week before Christmas then yes it should be 'cancelled'. |  |
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| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:38 - Nov 17 with 1493 views | hype313 |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:26 - Nov 17 by J2BLUE |
Perhaps that's because the vast majority of people actually celebrate Christmas?
If I lived in a country where the vast majority celebrated Eid but not Christmas I would completely understand them placing much higher importance on Eid and ignoring Christmas.
Not sure why so many of you keep posting this nonsense. |
It's not nonsense. |  |
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| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:40 - Nov 17 with 1487 views | J2BLUE |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:38 - Nov 17 by hype313 |
It's not nonsense. |
Thanks for correcting me. The strength of your argument has overwhelmed me. | |
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| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:43 - Nov 17 with 1484 views | DanTheMan |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:38 - Nov 17 by hype313 |
It's not nonsense. |
I think it makes sense if we don't treat Christmas as a religious holiday but as a "cultural" holiday for lack of a better term. |  |
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| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:44 - Nov 17 with 1479 views | StokieBlue |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:38 - Nov 17 by J2BLUE |
It shouldn't but I think there is a difference in going all out for Christmas. We're in lockdown. The ZOE app data is suggesting we are past the peak (I know you won't agree, but as i've said, it's been about 4 weeks ahead of confirmed data fairly consistently). We are almost certain to have a continuation of lockdown in all but name for another 2-3 weeks before Christmas. Chances are that it could be a lot better by then. Lets wait and see.
If things are still really bad the week before Christmas then yes it should be 'cancelled'. |
I've not opined on the ZOE app data as I've not looked into it. All I've said is it's predictive and past data accuracy is no guarantee of good predictive accuracy. It might be spot on, I simply don't know. I'll look at it when I have some time.
I do agree entirely that it should be data driven, the issue I have is that it's a highly unusual vector of transmission. Usually the modelling knows that people will stay fairly local and mix mostly in the local area. For Christmas people will travel all across the country and that means mixing areas with very different levels of infection.
It's also different as Christmas is multi-generational in a lot of cases and that mean a lot more people mixing with high-risk people.
As you say, we will have to wait and see how things are around the middle of December.
SB |  | | |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:44 - Nov 17 with 1476 views | J2BLUE |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:43 - Nov 17 by DanTheMan |
I think it makes sense if we don't treat Christmas as a religious holiday but as a "cultural" holiday for lack of a better term. |
Precisely. | |
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| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:45 - Nov 17 with 1470 views | hype313 |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:40 - Nov 17 by J2BLUE |
Thanks for correcting me. The strength of your argument has overwhelmed me. |
Don't know what's happened to you, you used to be a good laugh on here, gone all serious and Bullyesq.
Shame. | |
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| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:48 - Nov 17 with 1457 views | J2BLUE |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:44 - Nov 17 by StokieBlue |
I've not opined on the ZOE app data as I've not looked into it. All I've said is it's predictive and past data accuracy is no guarantee of good predictive accuracy. It might be spot on, I simply don't know. I'll look at it when I have some time.
I do agree entirely that it should be data driven, the issue I have is that it's a highly unusual vector of transmission. Usually the modelling knows that people will stay fairly local and mix mostly in the local area. For Christmas people will travel all across the country and that means mixing areas with very different levels of infection.
It's also different as Christmas is multi-generational in a lot of cases and that mean a lot more people mixing with high-risk people.
As you say, we will have to wait and see how things are around the middle of December.
SB |
Good points.
I would accept it if they decided it couldn't go ahead as normal. In fact, i'm arguing for it when i've already opted out of attending Christmas dinner this year. I would however like to spend time with family later in the day and on Boxing Day. | |
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| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:51 - Nov 17 with 1442 views | J2BLUE |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:45 - Nov 17 by hype313 |
Don't know what's happened to you, you used to be a good laugh on here, gone all serious and Bullyesq.
Shame. |
That comment was tongue in cheek but you literally basically replied 'you're wrong' with nothing else.
If i'm seen as Bully 2 then it's time I left for a while I think!  | |
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| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 17:17 - Nov 17 with 1402 views | StokieBlue |
Out of interest, can anyone living abroad post what their governments are saying with regards to Christmas?
I've just seen there were 731 deaths in Italy today, it seems to be accelerating in some countries.
SB | | | |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 17:29 - Nov 17 with 1386 views | hype313 |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 17:17 - Nov 17 by StokieBlue |
Out of interest, can anyone living abroad post what their governments are saying with regards to Christmas?
I've just seen there were 731 deaths in Italy today, it seems to be accelerating in some countries.
SB |
My Sister lives in Dubai and they have essentially cancelled Christmas there, going on what she just sent me from the Government guidelines they send out. | |
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| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 17:33 - Nov 17 with 1376 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 17:29 - Nov 17 by hype313 |
My Sister lives in Dubai and they have essentially cancelled Christmas there, going on what she just sent me from the Government guidelines they send out. |
Out of interest, did they cancel other 'religious festivals'? |  | | |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 17:50 - Nov 17 with 1363 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:26 - Nov 17 by J2BLUE |
Perhaps that's because the vast majority of people actually celebrate Christmas?
If I lived in a country where the vast majority celebrated Eid but not Christmas I would completely understand them placing much higher importance on Eid and ignoring Christmas.
Not sure why so many of you keep posting this nonsense. |
What percentage of people who “celebrate” Christmas do so with a religious element?
I love Christmas. Christmas has always played a big part in my life and I get depressed from the day after Boxing Day when it’s all over. The whole month of December has always been one long Christmas period for me.
But it’s one year and I think it’s insulting to other religious groups that there is a massive effort to do”save Christmas”. |  |
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| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 17:51 - Nov 17 with 1360 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 16:33 - Nov 17 by BlueBadger |
Can't speak for anyone else, but if my Muslim, Hindu, Sikh and Jain colleagues have had constraints put on 'their'' festivals, I'm not going to be over fussed about any of 'mine'.
If the Greeks can live without Easter being celebrated 'properly', we can live with Christmas.
This is pure and simply Boris playing to the gallery, being prepared to take unnecessary risks for the the sake of a his ego and the headlines in the Sun and nothing else. [Post edited 18 Nov 2020 10:12]
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And Nicola. | |
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| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 17:53 - Nov 17 with 1352 views | HARRY10 |
The mistake is the thought that various types of lockdowns are being brought in to save lives etc
They are not
They are being brought in to save hospitals...... being swamped with those needing treatment. Put bluntly, people dying is nit a big problem in this context..... they don't take up hospital beds or medical staff
The lock downs are merely a means to try to keep the numbers needing treatment to a manageable level.
Xmas can be a free for all, as it will take a few days at least before infected numbers begin to put pressure on hospitals
So..... eat drink and be merry, as some of us will die | | | |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 17:54 - Nov 17 with 1350 views | Ace_High1 |
I don't get this obsession with "Christmas must happen". Boris is just doing it for the headlines and cheap political points.
But Christmas is just another day, we have already lost 9 months worth this year, another few days make no difference. People should adapt, use Zoom etc like we have all had to this year for work/life.
Then when things get better with vaccines, people can "Christmas" everyday of the week for all I care, it really is not important this year.
if people still want to cook and be merry great, just don't do it in groups outside your household. |  | | |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 17:56 - Nov 17 with 1346 views | J2BLUE |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 17:50 - Nov 17 by GlasgowBlue |
What percentage of people who “celebrate” Christmas do so with a religious element?
I love Christmas. Christmas has always played a big part in my life and I get depressed from the day after Boxing Day when it’s all over. The whole month of December has always been one long Christmas period for me.
But it’s one year and I think it’s insulting to other religious groups that there is a massive effort to do”save Christmas”. |
My response to the first point is a polite who cares? As Dan says it's more cultural than religious for many.
Disagree on point three for reasons i've posted. Also we didn't 'save' Easter either. People need this. It's a long winter without Christmas.
If you want to make it up to other religions with an extra day of holiday next year so they can celebrate the holidays they missed in style then i'd happily support that. My stance is not Christianity > other religions. It's purely that it's a massive cultural event for the vast majority of people and we can prepare for a time limited period of reduced restrictions and IF POSSIBLE after assessing the results of that preparation go ahead with as normal a Christmas as possible. | |
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| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 18:08 - Nov 17 with 1333 views | StokieBlue |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 17:56 - Nov 17 by J2BLUE |
My response to the first point is a polite who cares? As Dan says it's more cultural than religious for many.
Disagree on point three for reasons i've posted. Also we didn't 'save' Easter either. People need this. It's a long winter without Christmas.
If you want to make it up to other religions with an extra day of holiday next year so they can celebrate the holidays they missed in style then i'd happily support that. My stance is not Christianity > other religions. It's purely that it's a massive cultural event for the vast majority of people and we can prepare for a time limited period of reduced restrictions and IF POSSIBLE after assessing the results of that preparation go ahead with as normal a Christmas as possible. |
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/17/prepare-for-a-low-key-christmas
So the advice is low-key Christmas at best, preferably no Christmas and rearrange for the summer but if you have to have it then do it outside. Pretty much what I've said as indoors with no ventilation the risk of transmission is huge and the older members of the family are at high risk.
I am sure everyone has read it but I don't think this link can be posted too many times:
https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-c
I do think some form of self-isolation before Christmas could work though, it's up to individuals to decide if they want to do that. It would certainly help protect everyone if you could get all family members attending to agree to do it.
SB [Post edited 17 Nov 2020 18:09]
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| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 18:26 - Nov 17 with 1311 views | Swansea_Blue |
Right up his alley this is. 'Get Christmas Done'. His supporters will lap it up. 'Three cheers for good old Boris showing common sense and not giving in to the namby pamby lefties who want to ban Christmas'.. ya da da da da
They'll miss the irony that they've been banging on for 4 years about there being too many foreigners in Engurland. |  |
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| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 18:33 - Nov 17 with 1305 views | IpswichBoyBlue |
I would go for a stronger lockdown until 23rd Dec. 24th, 25th and 26th is open to everyone, as long as you stay within the UK. The stronger lockdown starts again on the 27th until 1st of Feb. Not what I would wish, but as people are likely to break the lockdown anyway, might as well make it public. |  | | |
| Isn't it funny how the rules can bend on 18:52 - Nov 17 with 1280 views | HARRY10 |
What we are not being told are the important figures
The ;r' number is about as meaningless as a newspaper horoscope. Likewise death and infection rates don't really count, unless they are qualified.
How many people are in hospital due to COVID, what is their length of stay, and are those figures increasing ?
It is on that basis that hospitals will project occupancy rates, and their ability to cope.... which will determine any lockdown.
In that light the stupidity of removing nurses bursaries, charging non UK heath workers to, err.......................... use the NHS and making them feel unwelcome (Farage) needs to be brought to the fore.
As a lack of healthcare staff is as much a problem as is the bed numbers | | | |
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