| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective 07:12 - Nov 23 with 3773 views | ElderGrizzly |
Better than flu, but obviously an issue when rival products are 95%
But hey, its cheaper
[Post edited 23 Nov 2020 7:17]
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| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:18 - Nov 23 with 1845 views | ElderGrizzly |
Government is currently spinning it as 90% effective on TV
Oxford team said they don’t understand why a half does and full dose act better than 2 full doses
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| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:25 - Nov 23 with 1810 views | bluelagos |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:18 - Nov 23 by ElderGrizzly |
Government is currently spinning it as 90% effective on TV
Oxford team said they don’t understand why a half does and full dose act better than 2 full doses
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Glass half empty day?
If the science bods have estaablished that a half dose followed by a full dose gives 90% effectiveness, then it's 90%. Who gives a stuff that 2 full doses is a lower figure? |  |
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| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:28 - Nov 23 with 1791 views | mikeybloo88 |
I think it's actually very good news..remember that it took two doses of the other vaccines to be 90-95% effective and the Oxford vaccine needs 1 1/2 doses to be 90%. Plus it can be stored at much higher temp. Plus it's less potent in terms of reaction to it, so even one dose can supply decent protection with less side effects. [Post edited 23 Nov 2020 7:58]
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| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:29 - Nov 23 with 1790 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:25 - Nov 23 by bluelagos |
Glass half empty day?
If the science bods have estaablished that a half dose followed by a full dose gives 90% effectiveness, then it's 90%. Who gives a stuff that 2 full doses is a lower figure? |
No, just the full notes on the release said they even didn’t understand why half a dose caused an improvement.
All good news.
Can I have all three? 😠| | | |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:29 - Nov 23 with 1786 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:25 - Nov 23 by bluelagos |
Glass half empty day?
If the science bods have estaablished that a half dose followed by a full dose gives 90% effectiveness, then it's 90%. Who gives a stuff that 2 full doses is a lower figure? |
Perhaps it is because the half then full dose, as compared to the full then full dose, is nearer the principles of homeopathy!  |  |
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| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:35 - Nov 23 with 1752 views | bluelagos |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:29 - Nov 23 by ElderGrizzly |
No, just the full notes on the release said they even didn’t understand why half a dose caused an improvement.
All good news.
Can I have all three? 😠|
On the assumption that people will need to revaccinate after say 6 months, or a year, the question of mixing/matching different vaccines will need evaluating. As does multiple vaccines at the same time, which some will want. No idea if that would be dangerous so defo needs some testing.
Best news I read was that someone on Sage said that once the vulnerable are vaccinated (which would be end Jan?) then the rest of us can get on as normal(ish). Not that long away :-) | |
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| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:38 - Nov 23 with 1734 views | bluelagos |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:29 - Nov 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Perhaps it is because the half then full dose, as compared to the full then full dose, is nearer the principles of homeopathy! |
Where's Bully when you need him? | |
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| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:40 - Nov 23 with 1729 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:35 - Nov 23 by bluelagos |
On the assumption that people will need to revaccinate after say 6 months, or a year, the question of mixing/matching different vaccines will need evaluating. As does multiple vaccines at the same time, which some will want. No idea if that would be dangerous so defo needs some testing.
Best news I read was that someone on Sage said that once the vulnerable are vaccinated (which would be end Jan?) then the rest of us can get on as normal(ish). Not that long away :-) |
The timelines we are working to, is some kind of normality by September. Not a chance in Q1 or Q2 we’ll see a lot of the looser restrictions removed.
Masks will still be needed, social distancing etc | | | |
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| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:44 - Nov 23 with 1711 views | mikeybloo88 |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:40 - Nov 23 by ElderGrizzly |
The timelines we are working to, is some kind of normality by September. Not a chance in Q1 or Q2 we’ll see a lot of the looser restrictions removed.
Masks will still be needed, social distancing etc |
Well, now the Oxford vaccine has delivered, only needs 1 to 1.5 doses so it goes further and is easy to get out to surgeries, and we have 100 million doses, I'm more optimistic than September | | | |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:51 - Nov 23 with 1680 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:44 - Nov 23 by mikeybloo88 |
Well, now the Oxford vaccine has delivered, only needs 1 to 1.5 doses so it goes further and is easy to get out to surgeries, and we have 100 million doses, I'm more optimistic than September |
The point is even with the vaccine we’ll need some kind of restrictions until we hit around 80/90% of the population.
All depends on how good the Government is now in distribution | | | |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:54 - Nov 23 with 1667 views | bluelagos |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:40 - Nov 23 by ElderGrizzly |
The timelines we are working to, is some kind of normality by September. Not a chance in Q1 or Q2 we’ll see a lot of the looser restrictions removed.
Masks will still be needed, social distancing etc |
I'll take the quote from the Sage member :-) Full restrictions off from q3 or 4 maybe, but lots of lossening much sooner. | |
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| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:59 - Nov 23 with 1657 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:54 - Nov 23 by bluelagos |
I'll take the quote from the Sage member :-) Full restrictions off from q3 or 4 maybe, but lots of lossening much sooner. |
We hope they are right, but we have to plan many different scenarios and the one I described has most attention | | | |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:59 - Nov 23 with 1650 views | mikeybloo88 |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:51 - Nov 23 by ElderGrizzly |
The point is even with the vaccine we’ll need some kind of restrictions until we hit around 80/90% of the population.
All depends on how good the Government is now in distribution |
Well yes, your last statement is what everything hinges on... | | | |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 08:07 - Nov 23 with 1621 views | homer_123 |
We'd have bitten their hand off 5 months above for a 70% successful vaccine.
This vaccine can easily be stored and distributed on a 'global' scale whereas the other vaccines are going to find that much more challenging.
By the way - the (cost benefit analysis) trade off is something NICE do on a regular basis when it comes to drugs, vaccines, treatments et al, this will be no different. |  |
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| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 08:08 - Nov 23 with 1614 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:38 - Nov 23 by bluelagos |
Where's Bully when you need him? |
Maybe they'll try out a single 1/100 th dose now too! | |
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| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 08:08 - Nov 23 with 1614 views | jonbull88 |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:54 - Nov 23 by bluelagos |
I'll take the quote from the Sage member :-) Full restrictions off from q3 or 4 maybe, but lots of lossening much sooner. |
Even at only 1.5 jabs per person that’s still 70m jabs to do, if they are to jab the supposed 35m people. If you compare it to the flu jab, they only do 15m a year and that still takes 3 months to roll out. Also my biggest issue is the vaccines might be 70-90% effective, but I want to know where the 1% death rate is in the 100% stats and how long will the jab last, 3 months, 6 months of a year? |  | | |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 08:09 - Nov 23 with 1609 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:25 - Nov 23 by bluelagos |
Glass half empty day?
If the science bods have estaablished that a half dose followed by a full dose gives 90% effectiveness, then it's 90%. Who gives a stuff that 2 full doses is a lower figure? |
Yeah but the Tories. |  |
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| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 08:10 - Nov 23 with 1608 views | BloomBlue |
I don't understand what difference 'But hey, its cheaper' got to do with it?
Surely it's the effectiveness which is key and the Oxford team is saying a half followed by a full does is 90% effective. Which is slightly less than the Pfizer one but the low volume of people this has been tested against in real terms compared with the population of the world means 2%-5% difference is nothing and as it's given to a larger volume I'm sure the ultimate results will be the same.
Plus a lot of the costs associated with the Pfizer one will be keeping it in cold storage, if the Oxford one doesn't require that won't that be better for those countries which don't have that type of facility? |  | | |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 08:13 - Nov 23 with 1602 views | homer_123 |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 08:10 - Nov 23 by BloomBlue |
I don't understand what difference 'But hey, its cheaper' got to do with it?
Surely it's the effectiveness which is key and the Oxford team is saying a half followed by a full does is 90% effective. Which is slightly less than the Pfizer one but the low volume of people this has been tested against in real terms compared with the population of the world means 2%-5% difference is nothing and as it's given to a larger volume I'm sure the ultimate results will be the same.
Plus a lot of the costs associated with the Pfizer one will be keeping it in cold storage, if the Oxford one doesn't require that won't that be better for those countries which don't have that type of facility? |
Moreover - you need to think way beyond just his country. As a global vaccine, even at 70% effective, it only needs to be stored at 2 to 8 degrees.
Globaly a far better option to try and tackle Covid on the scale it's affecting us - irrespective of cost. | |
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| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 08:13 - Nov 23 with 1607 views | Guthrum |
Might it not be the case that a 70% effective vaccine which can be distributed, stored and handled at relatively normal temperatures is more useful than a 90% effective one which requires specialist very deep freeze facilities, unavailable in many parts even of the developed world? |  |
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| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 08:19 - Nov 23 with 1579 views | homer_123 |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 07:25 - Nov 23 by bluelagos |
Glass half empty day?
If the science bods have estaablished that a half dose followed by a full dose gives 90% effectiveness, then it's 90%. Who gives a stuff that 2 full doses is a lower figure? |
They currently don't know 'why' that approach provides a greater effectiveness. It'll be a stumbling block to approval unless they can clearly understand why....or....something is wrong with the data. | |
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| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 08:27 - Nov 23 with 1550 views | DanTheMan |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 08:19 - Nov 23 by homer_123 |
They currently don't know 'why' that approach provides a greater effectiveness. It'll be a stumbling block to approval unless they can clearly understand why....or....something is wrong with the data. |
Have you got a link saying that? I've read nothing that suggests that will be a block. |  |
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| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 08:49 - Nov 23 with 1491 views | homer_123 |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 08:27 - Nov 23 by DanTheMan |
Have you got a link saying that? I've read nothing that suggests that will be a block. |
No link Dan no. I'm looking at this from an 'approval' perspective....until they can clearly identify why that alternative dosing provides a better efficacy rate (with the relevant degree of confidence) - it's going to be problematic.
Could be due to a better immune system response or it might come at less effectively timescale rate (i.e. the full dose give 12 months cover, the lower dose better efficacy but for only 6 months) etc.
At the moment they have data with is a little counter intuitive and contradictory - it can't simply be glossed over.
I'm not saying they can't or won't find out why - just that they will need to. | |
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| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 08:55 - Nov 23 with 1468 views | DanTheMan |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 08:49 - Nov 23 by homer_123 |
No link Dan no. I'm looking at this from an 'approval' perspective....until they can clearly identify why that alternative dosing provides a better efficacy rate (with the relevant degree of confidence) - it's going to be problematic.
Could be due to a better immune system response or it might come at less effectively timescale rate (i.e. the full dose give 12 months cover, the lower dose better efficacy but for only 6 months) etc.
At the moment they have data with is a little counter intuitive and contradictory - it can't simply be glossed over.
I'm not saying they can't or won't find out why - just that they will need to. |
The reason I ask is that I am unaware of what criteria is needed for approval. Even without the half dose - full dose measure, it's beaten the required efficacy for approval.
The fact they were even testing for it in the first place suggests this isn't just a crazy phenomenon.
But I am not a medical professional or scientist. Just going by the few sources I've read, none of which seem to suggest there will be issues with approval. | |
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| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 09:02 - Nov 23 with 1436 views | homer_123 |
| Oxford Covid vaccine just 70% effective on 08:55 - Nov 23 by DanTheMan |
The reason I ask is that I am unaware of what criteria is needed for approval. Even without the half dose - full dose measure, it's beaten the required efficacy for approval.
The fact they were even testing for it in the first place suggests this isn't just a crazy phenomenon.
But I am not a medical professional or scientist. Just going by the few sources I've read, none of which seem to suggest there will be issues with approval. |
They've got a fairly big query in their data which, at the moment, they cannot explain.
I'd be surprised if they are not required to provide evidence as to why the data is showing that - they themselves will surely want to understand why because if they can get a 90% efficacy rate with 'less' vaccine, it's a win win.
Otherwise, if they cannot explain it (even if the explanation is that it's an anomaly and they can evidence that) - it leaves a hole in their data.
I'm sure they will be able to provide good evidence by the way. [Post edited 23 Nov 2020 9:09]
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