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The Pub Industry 14:05 - Nov 23 with 1573 viewshype313

Read this earlier from someone prominent in the trade.

Today's announcements will spell the end of the traditional British pub as we know it and will have a devastating impact on communities.

I have heard reports this morning that 94 per cent of pubs in Tier 3 areas will go under by Spring, and while this may seem excessive to some, it is no exaggeration.

It is clear that the ever-increasing debt from rents, rates and bills will be too much for the majority, especially the independent operators which cannot lean on parent companies.

Operators across Greater Manchester and the UK have spent several millions on making their venues covid-secure, following the Government's own guidelines, and I can only view these new regulations as a knife in the back and to the heart of the sector.

Operators now face business ruin and the finalisation of redundancy procedures, and for a sector where 21% of full-time workers and 53 per cent of part-time workers are already paid under Living Wage*, many workers now face an increased risk of poverty.

On Thursday, the Government will vote on these proposed measures.

We urge MPs on both sides to do the right thing and vote against the destruction of the nation's most loved sector.

Would be awful to see the demise of the pub, but we're still a way off from being able to fully open, such a shame.


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The Pub Industry on 14:12 - Nov 23 with 1305 viewsitfcjoe

I've had to visit numerous pubs in last week or so to try and price up outdoor area solutions for them to get in place for the winter - they are all trying to so hard to continue to trade and are being badly let down by the Govt

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Surely it won't end the pub industry..... on 14:19 - Nov 23 with 1275 viewsBloots

....it will just end it for those that are currently in the industry.

Obviously that doesn't help those that are currently doing everything that they can to try and survive.

I have every sympathy for them, I ran a pub myself for 3 years and it was far too much work for far too little money.

But, taking my local as an example. It's a free house, with a tenant/landlord/manager, he's already struggling and this will undoubtedly finish him off. He'll get booted out by the owner because he's unable to pay his bills and the place will probably sit empty for a couple of months.

Then someone else will come along and take on the tenancy once things are a little more "normal".

The buildings won't disappear and the nations desperation for a pint, and all that comes with that, certainly won't disappear.

Just to be clear, I'm have total sympathy for those that are going to lose their livelihood because of this.

Lambert out.
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The Pub Industry on 14:24 - Nov 23 with 1257 viewsElderGrizzly

Pubs don't give people the virus, the irresponsible members of the public inside do with trying to find workaround/scams for the various rules.

Sit down, table service only is probably the only way to operate until a vaccine is distributed widely enough
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The Pub Industry on 14:51 - Nov 23 with 1198 viewsStNeotsBlue

The Pub Industry on 14:24 - Nov 23 by ElderGrizzly

Pubs don't give people the virus, the irresponsible members of the public inside do with trying to find workaround/scams for the various rules.

Sit down, table service only is probably the only way to operate until a vaccine is distributed widely enough


Regarding your last paragraph, prior to the table service regulations my local had a scheme in place where you were served in one area and collected your drink at another part of the bar. The table service regulations increased contact between customers and staff.
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The Pub Industry on 15:50 - Nov 23 with 1131 viewsjontysnut

The Pub Industry on 14:51 - Nov 23 by StNeotsBlue

Regarding your last paragraph, prior to the table service regulations my local had a scheme in place where you were served in one area and collected your drink at another part of the bar. The table service regulations increased contact between customers and staff.


Depends on size of pub? Smallish pub near me you have to ring the front door, sanitise, register, shown to distanced table, one way system, and sanitise on way out. I felt more secure in there than Tesco. One has made an effort and has to shut, the other hasn't and stays open.
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The Pub Industry on 16:53 - Nov 23 with 1032 viewsMookamoo

The Pub Industry on 14:24 - Nov 23 by ElderGrizzly

Pubs don't give people the virus, the irresponsible members of the public inside do with trying to find workaround/scams for the various rules.

Sit down, table service only is probably the only way to operate until a vaccine is distributed widely enough


Pubs don't kill people. People kill people.
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The Pub Industry on 16:58 - Nov 23 with 1019 viewsjaykay

The Pub Industry on 14:12 - Nov 23 by itfcjoe

I've had to visit numerous pubs in last week or so to try and price up outdoor area solutions for them to get in place for the winter - they are all trying to so hard to continue to trade and are being badly let down by the Govt


yeah but what about the tories. oh that's been done today

bring back callis ,young footers and let phil ham back in the press box

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The Pub Industry on 19:37 - Nov 23 with 917 viewsstonojnr

Ive mentioned it several times on threads recently, but people just dont get it, or how alot of pubs are basically doomed with these restrictions, they just read stupidness on facebook and assume all the virus spread came from pubs so they deserve to be shut.

Again governments own stats less than 2% of infections reported in pubs as the source.

we'll also lose lots of the independent brewers too now, theyve got no outlet for the beer they make, takeaway beer for both pubs/breweries isnt about even earning a profit, it barely covers costs.

and local produce will be hit, pubs that do food source lots of local produce, and I bet the farmers will be none too happy come the next harvest when all the grain sits in the silos that none of the breweries want anymore, because they just arent making the volume.

the weird thing is the sector generates tons of tax, youd think the government would be keen on plugging the hole in the public finances
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The Pub Industry on 21:14 - Nov 23 with 800 views26_Paz

The Pub Industry on 15:50 - Nov 23 by jontysnut

Depends on size of pub? Smallish pub near me you have to ring the front door, sanitise, register, shown to distanced table, one way system, and sanitise on way out. I felt more secure in there than Tesco. One has made an effort and has to shut, the other hasn't and stays open.


Trouble is even if they are allowed to open having to do all that makes them unprofitable. They just can’t fit the numbers in to make any money
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The Pub Industry on 21:18 - Nov 23 with 797 viewsSpruceMoose

The Pub Industry on 21:14 - Nov 23 by 26_Paz

Trouble is even if they are allowed to open having to do all that makes them unprofitable. They just can’t fit the numbers in to make any money


What would you suggest?

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The Pub Industry on 21:20 - Nov 23 with 790 viewsFrimleyBlue

Bare in mind. Even a pub sky licence can cost £8000 and sky arent letting anyone cancel mid contract.

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The Pub Industry on 21:21 - Nov 23 with 780 views26_Paz

The Pub Industry on 21:18 - Nov 23 by SpruceMoose

What would you suggest?


I don’t know. Opening up as soon as enough of the vulnerable groups have had the vaccine is a must.
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The Pub Industry on 21:24 - Nov 23 with 770 viewsSpruceMoose

The Pub Industry on 21:21 - Nov 23 by 26_Paz

I don’t know. Opening up as soon as enough of the vulnerable groups have had the vaccine is a must.


Why wouldn't they? I'm sure they will.

It's not like busineses have closed for nothing.

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The Pub Industry on 21:25 - Nov 23 with 766 viewsAce_High1

The Pub Industry on 21:18 - Nov 23 by SpruceMoose

What would you suggest?


Mandatory pub crawl for anyone over 18, must visit at least 6 pubs in a session.

Do it for the economy.
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The Pub Industry on 21:26 - Nov 23 with 759 viewsronnyd

The Pub Industry on 21:25 - Nov 23 by Ace_High1

Mandatory pub crawl for anyone over 18, must visit at least 6 pubs in a session.

Do it for the economy.


P!ss up to help out.
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The Pub Industry on 21:26 - Nov 23 with 759 viewsSpruceMoose

The Pub Industry on 21:25 - Nov 23 by Ace_High1

Mandatory pub crawl for anyone over 18, must visit at least 6 pubs in a session.

Do it for the economy.


Some people have never stopped doing that!

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The Pub Industry on 21:26 - Nov 23 with 752 views26_Paz

The Pub Industry on 21:24 - Nov 23 by SpruceMoose

Why wouldn't they? I'm sure they will.

It's not like busineses have closed for nothing.


I mean don’t wait until literally everyone has had it. Once enough of those in the vulnerable category have had it then fully open. In the meantime allow as many as possible to open with these distancing measures. Perhaps another eat out to help out style scheme once enough have been vaccinated.
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The Pub Industry on 21:27 - Nov 23 with 747 views26_Paz

The Pub Industry on 21:26 - Nov 23 by ronnyd

P!ss up to help out.


I’m in
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The Pub Industry on 21:28 - Nov 23 with 747 viewsSpruceMoose

The Pub Industry on 21:26 - Nov 23 by 26_Paz

I mean don’t wait until literally everyone has had it. Once enough of those in the vulnerable category have had it then fully open. In the meantime allow as many as possible to open with these distancing measures. Perhaps another eat out to help out style scheme once enough have been vaccinated.


I imagine that's the plan.

There's no alternative to closures right now though.

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The Pub Industry on 22:35 - Nov 23 with 657 viewsjeera

The Pub Industry on 19:37 - Nov 23 by stonojnr

Ive mentioned it several times on threads recently, but people just dont get it, or how alot of pubs are basically doomed with these restrictions, they just read stupidness on facebook and assume all the virus spread came from pubs so they deserve to be shut.

Again governments own stats less than 2% of infections reported in pubs as the source.

we'll also lose lots of the independent brewers too now, theyve got no outlet for the beer they make, takeaway beer for both pubs/breweries isnt about even earning a profit, it barely covers costs.

and local produce will be hit, pubs that do food source lots of local produce, and I bet the farmers will be none too happy come the next harvest when all the grain sits in the silos that none of the breweries want anymore, because they just arent making the volume.

the weird thing is the sector generates tons of tax, youd think the government would be keen on plugging the hole in the public finances


"but people just dont get it"

Who are these people? Most on here understand the problems the sector is facing.

"they just read stupidness on facebook"

Again, who do you mean? FB gets mocked on a daily basis on here so I would assume you meant people in general?

I don't know exactly how the figures are being reached but if it's all by the test and trace system then the data is relying on those who have the app. And it shows only who has been where doesn't it, rather than where it's been contracted?

That's an honest question and am happy to learn more on this btw.

I feel for the pub trade because, as many have pointed out, many have gone to great lengths to put provisions in place, and by doing so the customer numbers possible have been reduced horribly. And what with closures too.

This from PHE suggests more than 2% though:
A total of 3,154 Covid-19 outbreaks were recorded between 3 August and 4 October (we're using this data because it corresponds with a period when pubs were open), including:
171 outbreaks (5.4%) in restaurants or food outlets
835 outbreaks (26.4%) in educational facilities
933 outbreaks (29.6%) in care homes
661 outbreaks (21.0%) in workplaces

That looks about right you'd have thought, proportionately.

Well it looks like a duck, it sounds like a duck. Nope, dunno what it is.
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The Pub Industry on 22:35 - Nov 23 with 655 viewsSpruceMoose

The Pub Industry on 21:27 - Nov 23 by 26_Paz

I’m in


You never stopped!

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The Pub Industry on 23:29 - Nov 23 with 595 viewsStokieBlue

The Pub Industry on 19:37 - Nov 23 by stonojnr

Ive mentioned it several times on threads recently, but people just dont get it, or how alot of pubs are basically doomed with these restrictions, they just read stupidness on facebook and assume all the virus spread came from pubs so they deserve to be shut.

Again governments own stats less than 2% of infections reported in pubs as the source.

we'll also lose lots of the independent brewers too now, theyve got no outlet for the beer they make, takeaway beer for both pubs/breweries isnt about even earning a profit, it barely covers costs.

and local produce will be hit, pubs that do food source lots of local produce, and I bet the farmers will be none too happy come the next harvest when all the grain sits in the silos that none of the breweries want anymore, because they just arent making the volume.

the weird thing is the sector generates tons of tax, youd think the government would be keen on plugging the hole in the public finances


The 2% figure (it was actually 3% in the papers) is incorrect as described by fullfact.org:

https://fullfact.org/health/its-wrong-to-say-that-only-3-of-covid-19-cases-are-c

It really wasn't "stupidness on FB", it was the recommendations to the government that saw pubs close.

You've listed a lot of things we know but you've not said what should have been done. You've then said because they generate tax the government should be keen to have them open but at the moment the tax take is irrelevant given the borrowing. The main issue is keeping people from contracting C19.

It's awful for pubs, I think everyone acknowledges that but what should have been done? I'm looking forward to pubs being open but unfortunately that can only happen when it's safe to do so.

SB
[Post edited 23 Nov 2020 23:30]

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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The Pub Industry on 08:47 - Nov 24 with 444 viewswkj

In all honesty, I think the majority of traditional British pubs died a long long time ago. As much as I love a good pub lunch, gone are many of the good ol boozers that maybe serve scotch eggs at a push.

Pubs now to me are more or less restaurants with a broad selection of booze.

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The Pub Industry on 08:51 - Nov 24 with 441 viewshype313

The Pub Industry on 08:47 - Nov 24 by wkj

In all honesty, I think the majority of traditional British pubs died a long long time ago. As much as I love a good pub lunch, gone are many of the good ol boozers that maybe serve scotch eggs at a push.

Pubs now to me are more or less restaurants with a broad selection of booze.


Sign of the times though isn't it, peoples habits have changed, gone are the days where people used to go to the pub after work for a few hours, now people go to the Gym, other sporting activities etc.

Think the only real proper drinking pubs left in Ipswich are the Fat Cat, the Old Times and the Brickies.

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The Pub Industry on 09:17 - Nov 24 with 401 viewscatch74

The Pub Industry on 08:47 - Nov 24 by wkj

In all honesty, I think the majority of traditional British pubs died a long long time ago. As much as I love a good pub lunch, gone are many of the good ol boozers that maybe serve scotch eggs at a push.

Pubs now to me are more or less restaurants with a broad selection of booze.


You’re right. My pub is probably nearly 70% food now. It is the best way to survive. Having worked for nearly 20 years for Whitbread and what their pubs became plus 8 years here I’ve seen a massive change. If you get it right it’s very rewarding, it has to be a job not a lifestyle now.
Generally pubs that fail are tied (the Tom Kerridge save our pubs is covering this.) I’ve spoken in detail before but I know several pubs in my area that have closed solely because of the tie.
I researched thoroughly before leaving managed houses and going it alone, it’s all out there very clearly, don’t touch tied pubs. The one way round it is to do what Tom Kerridge has done - focus on food, you get all the profit from that.
We’re lucky, the freehold is owned by a private couple, I’ve negotiated a rent reduction - back at the start of the last lock down, including Christmas - it looked fairly obvious back then that it would not be a normal year. We’ve got the £50k loan sat in a bank, in case we need it, we’ve battened down the hatches and the furlough is helping.
The grant of £2000 is a pittance but then you hear there are 3 million self employed that have received nothing. It’s when you read about the people actually profiteering from the pandemic that the blood boils a bit.
We can make profit in tier 1 and possibly 2, tier 3 is us locked down again - we do limited take away as we’re in the middle of nowhere. So fingers crossed it’s tier 1.
It’s out us back a couple of years, we were very close to buying the freehold, we’ll have to wait on that now.
As someone else has said it’s not the pubs it’s the people. The ones that do drink on here now do so around each other’s houses, where there is no one to sanitise or keep them apart or send them home when they’ve had too much.

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