| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" 13:49 - Nov 24 with 2504 views | DanTheMan |
Saw this as part of the reporting on Matt Hancock's appearance at a joint session of the Health and Social Care Committee and Science and Technology Committee.
Taken from the BBC:
Matt Hancock then talks about the main lessons he's learned while handling the pandemic.
He says he wants to see "a change in the British way of doing things" where ‘if in doubt, get a test’ doesn’t just refer to coronavirus but refers to any illness you might have.
"Why in Britain do we think it is acceptable to soldier on and go into work if you have flu symptoms or a runny nose thus making your colleagues ill?
"I think that is something that is going to have to change. If you have in future - I hope - flu-like symptoms you should get a test for it and find out what’s wrong with you and if you need to stay at home to protect others then you stay at home."
He goes on to say: "We are peculiar, unusual and outliers in soldiering on and still going to work."
He notes that this year there have been far fewer respiratory diseases turning up in the NHS which, he says, is partly because of social distancing,
"I want this massive diagnostics capacity to be core to how we treat people in the NHS so that we help people to stay healthy in the first place rather than just looking after them when they are ill," he adds.
Find myself agreeing with all of this. I've never understood the need for people to come into work (especially offices) ill and then either having to get actually sent home or potentially worse just sitting there sneezing and infecting everyone else.
Even worse are when businesses then support those who do this. I've heard the phrase "if you're ill enough to work from home, you're ill enough to come in" at least a few times which I find just immensely short sighted.
Do we think this is just a British problem though? Not sure how other countries view coming in to work when ill. |  |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 15:04 - Nov 24 with 582 views | Dyland |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 15:00 - Nov 24 by Mullet |
I had a meeting like that a few years ago. 2x 1 day absences and then they brought up this "5 days on such a such date 11 months ago".
I looked at them a bit puzzled and asked if that was when I had a lump in my lymph nodes and they were ruling out cancer and such like. The brass and HR went outside quickly, had some hurried converstion and then cancelled the meeting on the spot and sent me back to work.
That was literally it. The problem is there are all these genius measures and paperwork in place it makes it impossible for people. |
Makes my blood boil. I'm fortunate I've never had to deal with that.... never being ill...
;) nah, having only ever been self-employed or PAYE with more reasonable employers. |  |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 15:06 - Nov 24 with 583 views | Churchman |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:24 - Nov 24 by uefacup81 |
Indeed.
To echo you, and other posters in this thread, perhaps we wouldn't feel the need to 'soldier on' if Terms & Conditions were better, and sickness was viewed in a different light.
I worked for an NHS Trust about five years ago, and the default position was that if you had three periods of sickness (even so much as three one-day absences) within a twelve-month period, you would have to submit to a formal capability review. I knew of no end of colleagues who essentially said "I would have called in sick, but I've already had my three absences this year". |
Spot on. My sister works for a local authority in London and basically, it’s disciplinary if you have more than a couple of instances of sick absence. In the govt dept I worked for, terms and conditions / SSP were ‘reformed’ in the last 10 years to be the worst in the public sector in a race to the bottom. It’s no good HaplessHancock bleating on about it now when his shower view anyone who is unwell as backsliding layabouts.
I have no problem with people who take the mickey with sick absence being challenged and where necessary kicked out. It’s pretty obvious when people do this. I know it’s hard to prove but basically, I think that people who are unwell should not be in work or working and where possible be supported through it. [Post edited 24 Nov 2020 15:08]
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 15:45 - Nov 24 with 547 views | vapour_trail |
Quite clever from Hancock’s advisors.
Spectacularly avoid the question, and any scrutiny on lessons learned as a result of government actions, and instead turn focus onto the general public and provide an alternative narrative for media and public to engage with. |  |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 15:47 - Nov 24 with 541 views | uefacup81 |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 15:45 - Nov 24 by vapour_trail |
Quite clever from Hancock’s advisors.
Spectacularly avoid the question, and any scrutiny on lessons learned as a result of government actions, and instead turn focus onto the general public and provide an alternative narrative for media and public to engage with. |
Quite.
"It's not our fault that the lockdown wasn't strict/clear enough to significantly reduce infection levels. It's the fault of those damned workers going to work when they're poorly." |  |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 15:58 - Nov 24 with 528 views | Bluespeed225 |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:43 - Nov 24 by JohnWarksTash |
There was a system called Bradford Points which was basically the number of days off x occurrences x occurrences and it caused no end of stress which led to more people pushing themselves in and subsequently being off for longer when they finally did give in and go off sick.
It's been scrapped recently but you are still 'encouraged' by threats of Sickness Review meetings. |
The ‘Bradford Factor’ is alive and well, used at my place. Better to be off once for 3 months than to have the odd Friday/Monday off 4 times a year. Currently got 2 people on warnings as their score has reached has reached a level that gets flagged. |  | | |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 16:03 - Nov 24 with 529 views | factual_blue |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 15:06 - Nov 24 by Churchman |
Spot on. My sister works for a local authority in London and basically, it’s disciplinary if you have more than a couple of instances of sick absence. In the govt dept I worked for, terms and conditions / SSP were ‘reformed’ in the last 10 years to be the worst in the public sector in a race to the bottom. It’s no good HaplessHancock bleating on about it now when his shower view anyone who is unwell as backsliding layabouts.
I have no problem with people who take the mickey with sick absence being challenged and where necessary kicked out. It’s pretty obvious when people do this. I know it’s hard to prove but basically, I think that people who are unwell should not be in work or working and where possible be supported through it. [Post edited 24 Nov 2020 15:08]
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Same across the public sector. This 'tough guy' stance came about because of pressure from the CBI and others of the same ilk. They were outraged that the average sick days lost in the public sector was so much higher than the private sector.
Needless to say the CBI were too dim to grasp that:
1. A large number of public sector workers have time off because of injuries - police, firemen, jobcentre workers macheted in the head* etc;
2. A large number of public sector workers have time off because of stress - police, firemen, NHS staff, teachers, and pretty well any underpaid, front-facing public sector worker;
3. Because of genuine efforts to employ people with disabilities and challenging health conditions, the public sector has more people who are likely to need time off.
In other news, ignorant capitalists are prize sh.its.
*This actually happened in Washwood Heath, Birmingham a few years ago. [Post edited 24 Nov 2020 17:51]
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 16:22 - Nov 24 with 497 views | longtimefan |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:43 - Nov 24 by JohnWarksTash |
There was a system called Bradford Points which was basically the number of days off x occurrences x occurrences and it caused no end of stress which led to more people pushing themselves in and subsequently being off for longer when they finally did give in and go off sick.
It's been scrapped recently but you are still 'encouraged' by threats of Sickness Review meetings. |
That was the system used by my previous employer. I don’t know if they persist with to this day though. | | | |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 17:04 - Nov 24 with 473 views | MonkeyAlan |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 15:58 - Nov 24 by Bluespeed225 |
The ‘Bradford Factor’ is alive and well, used at my place. Better to be off once for 3 months than to have the odd Friday/Monday off 4 times a year. Currently got 2 people on warnings as their score has reached has reached a level that gets flagged. |
This system happens a lot in the big supermarkets. You get 3 strikes and you are out. And you have to have a return to work meeting.
Where l used to work in a factory, you basically couldn't have a day off, if you did that could be your lot. Dickensian Britain is alive and well in 2020. |  | | |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 17:21 - Nov 24 with 460 views | BlueBadger |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:43 - Nov 24 by JohnWarksTash |
There was a system called Bradford Points which was basically the number of days off x occurrences x occurrences and it caused no end of stress which led to more people pushing themselves in and subsequently being off for longer when they finally did give in and go off sick.
It's been scrapped recently but you are still 'encouraged' by threats of Sickness Review meetings. |
It's still holding out in some NHS trusts.
I wa called into a meeting a few years ago to 'discuss my sickness'.
The two main incidences of sickness I'd had that year were a road accident and a dental abcess that saw me nearly hospitalised(I escaped only because I told the dentist 'ate, I'm an ITU nurse, I know what airway obstruction and sepsis look like. I'll check my temp, record my obs and urine output and go straight to Ipswich A&E if my NEWS score rises above 2'.
The HR drone run-in the meeting was most put out when I promised that I'd 'try my hardest not to have any more road accidents'. |  |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 17:27 - Nov 24 with 451 views | BlueBadger |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:07 - Nov 24 by Steve_M |
Hancock in a normal government would kind of be ok, he is a dweeb and obsessed with Apps and the private sector, but shows evidence of listening to experts and makes sensible pronouncements on the back of that. Unfortunately he's part of the current clown class which exacerbates all his own failings.
He's right here though, struggling into work ill isn't productive for the individual or wider team. Obviously some people will take the piss but they do that anyway, I'm sure we could all think of examples.
Sometimes working whilst ill is unavoidable though, especially when others are away but the greater prevalence of WFH should mean that people can at least do the necessary minimum without struggling into the office. |
Hancock doesn't listen to experts at all. Only in the most shallow, 'will this do', sense.
Rather than tackle the issue of failure to recognise and escalate sick people by looking at staffing levels(proven across multiple studies to be the key factor in patient safety) he's faffed about with apps and PR b0llocks. | |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 18:20 - Nov 24 with 415 views | Churchman |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 17:27 - Nov 24 by BlueBadger |
Hancock doesn't listen to experts at all. Only in the most shallow, 'will this do', sense.
Rather than tackle the issue of failure to recognise and escalate sick people by looking at staffing levels(proven across multiple studies to be the key factor in patient safety) he's faffed about with apps and PR b0llocks. |
I wouldn’t trust Hancock with running a bath. Clueless. I’m sure he is intelligent, as is Johnson, but so was Neville Chamberlain and H H Asquith and they were stupid (a different thing from intelligence) and utterly useless too. | | | |
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