| "Oven-ready" - on 08:54 - Dec 13 with 853 views | gordon |
| "Oven-ready" - on 23:11 - Dec 12 by Churchman |
In my view your posts are not a million miles out. The reality is that EU exports to the UK are important. Some goods move back and forth across borders several times to be ‘finished’ as well, but the basic sum is the EU exports twice as much to the UK than visa versa. The negative effect on some countries such as Germany Holland and Spain will be significant. The other problem for the EU is that UKs trade with the EU has been falling in relation to the rest of the world for a decade or more. No deal will only accelerate this. Ok, they can sit by the fireside laughing at the worse situation in the UK and a lesson well taught, but that won’t help them economically in the short or long term.
A trade agreement only works if it’s in the best interests of both parties and in UK EU case it is a no brainier. Even the BBC believes what the EU are demanding is unreasonable and I believe it is. That the UK was stupid enough to leave is irrelevant now. It should be about a productive deal for both sides. I think what the EU is trying to do at the moment is awful and any agreement on their terms now is untenable.
As for preparation, do not believe all you read. Serious work on no deal preparation has been going on since spring 2017. I doubt it’ll be as bad as is being stated in the media and nor will it be easy. Just over two years ago, the threat to everything from the water we drink to the petrol in the car was very real. That isn’t the case now. There will be shortages driven by panic buying, reduced choice, supplier driven shortages and the south east jammed by traffic queues, but a lot of things have been done to lessen the potentially catastrophic effects. [Post edited 12 Dec 2020 23:12]
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The whole point of Brexit, as I understood it, was for the EU to treat us as a third party.
So now the EU are treating us as a third party, and looking after their own interests, we don't like it.
Be Careful What You Wish For, I guess. |  | |  |
| "Oven-ready" - on 09:10 - Dec 13 with 834 views | Churchman |
| "Oven-ready" - on 08:54 - Dec 13 by gordon |
The whole point of Brexit, as I understood it, was for the EU to treat us as a third party.
So now the EU are treating us as a third party, and looking after their own interests, we don't like it.
Be Careful What You Wish For, I guess. |
I never really understood the point of brexit in the first place, tbh. Whilst I’ve detested the EU for years now in a variety of ways, surely pushing to change it from the inside was preferable to brexit. Surely in an increasingly interdependent world that was the way forward. Nothing I saw working on brexit changed my mind. All it told me was how little everyone from the PM down knew how everything worked. Leave nationalism to the Olympics and World Cup was always my view.
However, where we are now, and aside from BJs abject efforts, I don’t think the EU is looking after its economic interests with the course it’s taken. For me, it’s looking after it’s political interests, as is BJ. And it’s the people (mostly the poorest) who will pay for this.
I think BJ and Lambert should swap jobs. Neither could do worse. Just an idea. |  | | |
| "Oven-ready" - on 09:13 - Dec 13 with 829 views | Herbivore |
| "Oven-ready" - on 09:10 - Dec 13 by Churchman |
I never really understood the point of brexit in the first place, tbh. Whilst I’ve detested the EU for years now in a variety of ways, surely pushing to change it from the inside was preferable to brexit. Surely in an increasingly interdependent world that was the way forward. Nothing I saw working on brexit changed my mind. All it told me was how little everyone from the PM down knew how everything worked. Leave nationalism to the Olympics and World Cup was always my view.
However, where we are now, and aside from BJs abject efforts, I don’t think the EU is looking after its economic interests with the course it’s taken. For me, it’s looking after it’s political interests, as is BJ. And it’s the people (mostly the poorest) who will pay for this.
I think BJ and Lambert should swap jobs. Neither could do worse. Just an idea. |
What specifically do you think is unreasonable about the EU's current position and how far do you think they should be willing to shift from it? |  |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 09:13 - Dec 13 with 829 views | gordon |
| "Oven-ready" - on 09:10 - Dec 13 by Churchman |
I never really understood the point of brexit in the first place, tbh. Whilst I’ve detested the EU for years now in a variety of ways, surely pushing to change it from the inside was preferable to brexit. Surely in an increasingly interdependent world that was the way forward. Nothing I saw working on brexit changed my mind. All it told me was how little everyone from the PM down knew how everything worked. Leave nationalism to the Olympics and World Cup was always my view.
However, where we are now, and aside from BJs abject efforts, I don’t think the EU is looking after its economic interests with the course it’s taken. For me, it’s looking after it’s political interests, as is BJ. And it’s the people (mostly the poorest) who will pay for this.
I think BJ and Lambert should swap jobs. Neither could do worse. Just an idea. |
The EU member states & citizens don't really have much choice - they have to represent the democratic will of their citizens. They aren't responsible for protecting poor people in the UK anymore. | | | |
| "Oven-ready" - on 09:17 - Dec 13 with 822 views | GlasgowBlue |
| "Oven-ready" - on 08:54 - Dec 13 by gordon |
The whole point of Brexit, as I understood it, was for the EU to treat us as a third party.
So now the EU are treating us as a third party, and looking after their own interests, we don't like it.
Be Careful What You Wish For, I guess. |
Not quite correct Gordon. Far from treating us as a third party whom they wish to conduct a trade deal with, they are treating us as a former member who has taken the decision to leave. |  |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 09:20 - Dec 13 with 805 views | Churchman |
| "Oven-ready" - on 09:13 - Dec 13 by gordon |
The EU member states & citizens don't really have much choice - they have to represent the democratic will of their citizens. They aren't responsible for protecting poor people in the UK anymore. |
I agree totally. My view is that the EU are not making decisions in the best interests of their citizens any more than the No 10 clown is. | | | |
| "Oven-ready" - on 09:23 - Dec 13 with 800 views | GlasgowBlue |
| "Oven-ready" - on 09:20 - Dec 13 by Churchman |
I agree totally. My view is that the EU are not making decisions in the best interests of their citizens any more than the No 10 clown is. |
There seems to be a lack of compromise from either side. nd compromise in in the best interests of the UK and the EU.
It's quite sad to see the hard core brexiteers treating the EU like the enemy and only seeing fault with the other side, whilst equally sad to see the hard core remainers only see fault on the side of our government.
And that goes for people on here. Perhaps Ullaa being the only exception. | |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 09:29 - Dec 13 with 779 views | Darth_Koont |
| "Oven-ready" - on 09:23 - Dec 13 by GlasgowBlue |
There seems to be a lack of compromise from either side. nd compromise in in the best interests of the UK and the EU.
It's quite sad to see the hard core brexiteers treating the EU like the enemy and only seeing fault with the other side, whilst equally sad to see the hard core remainers only see fault on the side of our government.
And that goes for people on here. Perhaps Ullaa being the only exception. |
Unfortunately the UK government and the Brexiteers won’t compromise with reality. That’s the sticking point and always has been.
For far too many the whole point of Brexit in the first place is not to compromise. And waving a flag/stealing votes whilst doing so. |  |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 09:35 - Dec 13 with 766 views | Churchman |
| "Oven-ready" - on 09:23 - Dec 13 by GlasgowBlue |
There seems to be a lack of compromise from either side. nd compromise in in the best interests of the UK and the EU.
It's quite sad to see the hard core brexiteers treating the EU like the enemy and only seeing fault with the other side, whilst equally sad to see the hard core remainers only see fault on the side of our government.
And that goes for people on here. Perhaps Ullaa being the only exception. |
Agreed. Ironically it really should have been the easiest deal in history as both parties were uniquely starting from the same point including shared standards in everything. The reality is that businesses across Europe just wanted to trade and get on with their daily lives, but the politicians on both sides had other priorities. The ignorance and grandstanding displayed by the UK and EU has been staggering. | | | |
| "Oven-ready" - on 09:39 - Dec 13 with 758 views | vapour_trail |
| "Oven-ready" - on 09:23 - Dec 13 by GlasgowBlue |
There seems to be a lack of compromise from either side. nd compromise in in the best interests of the UK and the EU.
It's quite sad to see the hard core brexiteers treating the EU like the enemy and only seeing fault with the other side, whilst equally sad to see the hard core remainers only see fault on the side of our government.
And that goes for people on here. Perhaps Ullaa being the only exception. |
Incomprehensible levels of hypocrisy.
People like you created this narrative of the EU. Stop trying to distance yourself from it. |  |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 09:42 - Dec 13 with 743 views | Herbivore |
| "Oven-ready" - on 09:35 - Dec 13 by Churchman |
Agreed. Ironically it really should have been the easiest deal in history as both parties were uniquely starting from the same point including shared standards in everything. The reality is that businesses across Europe just wanted to trade and get on with their daily lives, but the politicians on both sides had other priorities. The ignorance and grandstanding displayed by the UK and EU has been staggering. |
What specifically is the EU being unreasonable about and how far do you think they should shift? | |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 09:46 - Dec 13 with 740 views | Herbivore |
| "Oven-ready" - on 09:23 - Dec 13 by GlasgowBlue |
There seems to be a lack of compromise from either side. nd compromise in in the best interests of the UK and the EU.
It's quite sad to see the hard core brexiteers treating the EU like the enemy and only seeing fault with the other side, whilst equally sad to see the hard core remainers only see fault on the side of our government.
And that goes for people on here. Perhaps Ullaa being the only exception. |
Stop projecting your guilt. You're much more responsible for this sh!t show than anyone who voted remain. | |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 10:11 - Dec 13 with 717 views | Churchman |
| "Oven-ready" - on 09:13 - Dec 13 by Herbivore |
What specifically do you think is unreasonable about the EU's current position and how far do you think they should be willing to shift from it? |
A couple of examples: My understanding is that in ‘level playing field’ requirements they effectively want the ability to put tariffs on any goods and services of their choosing if they believe unfair competition is happening in a particular area. This is to be a one way arrangement with the ECJ as an arbitrator. If I have this right, it’s unreasonable. I believe it’s something they are also trying to impose on Switzerland with the 100s of individual agreements they have.
The fisheries thing is a bit of a nonsense for 0.1% of gdp and a good example of how politics gets in the way of sense. On this, I think an acknowledgement of the UKs right to govern its own waters under international law would help and dropping ‘in perpetuity’ demands replaced by renewals over set periods. The UK on its part should accept that for whatever reason the reality is that we don’t have a fishing industry at the moment and demolishing existing arrangements overnight is beyond daft.
Back to your question, I think both sides are entrenched so nobody is willing to shift. I repeat, I despair at how we got into this mess. A diet of lies, bus slogans and rhetoric based on bogus ideology and stupidity I suppose. I also understand the EUs annoyance, it’s desire for terms that both suit itself and to punish. However, the primary aim should be the economic benefit to the people of Europe. No deal is ludicrous and a missed opportunity for both parties. The blame lies on both sides for me. A 6 month extension to the current arrangements with a step back to have a re think? Not going to happen sadly. | | | |
| "Oven-ready" - on 10:15 - Dec 13 with 702 views | bluelagos |
| "Oven-ready" - on 09:23 - Dec 13 by GlasgowBlue |
There seems to be a lack of compromise from either side. nd compromise in in the best interests of the UK and the EU.
It's quite sad to see the hard core brexiteers treating the EU like the enemy and only seeing fault with the other side, whilst equally sad to see the hard core remainers only see fault on the side of our government.
And that goes for people on here. Perhaps Ullaa being the only exception. |
From someone who campaigned / was vocal for Brexit - that is a pretty pathetic comment Glassers.
And not only did you campaign for Brexit, if memory serves me right you also argued against our remaining in the single market after the vote - an obvious compromise at the time.
But hey, let's blame everyone else for what was entirely predictable. |  |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 10:23 - Dec 13 with 685 views | Herbivore |
| "Oven-ready" - on 10:11 - Dec 13 by Churchman |
A couple of examples: My understanding is that in ‘level playing field’ requirements they effectively want the ability to put tariffs on any goods and services of their choosing if they believe unfair competition is happening in a particular area. This is to be a one way arrangement with the ECJ as an arbitrator. If I have this right, it’s unreasonable. I believe it’s something they are also trying to impose on Switzerland with the 100s of individual agreements they have.
The fisheries thing is a bit of a nonsense for 0.1% of gdp and a good example of how politics gets in the way of sense. On this, I think an acknowledgement of the UKs right to govern its own waters under international law would help and dropping ‘in perpetuity’ demands replaced by renewals over set periods. The UK on its part should accept that for whatever reason the reality is that we don’t have a fishing industry at the moment and demolishing existing arrangements overnight is beyond daft.
Back to your question, I think both sides are entrenched so nobody is willing to shift. I repeat, I despair at how we got into this mess. A diet of lies, bus slogans and rhetoric based on bogus ideology and stupidity I suppose. I also understand the EUs annoyance, it’s desire for terms that both suit itself and to punish. However, the primary aim should be the economic benefit to the people of Europe. No deal is ludicrous and a missed opportunity for both parties. The blame lies on both sides for me. A 6 month extension to the current arrangements with a step back to have a re think? Not going to happen sadly. |
Fair enough, and thanks for the response. I agree the fishing bit is a bit of a nonsense and probably easily resolved. The level playing field stuff is more tricky. The EU quite justifiably feel that if there is divergence that creates unfair competition from the UK that there needs to be a mechanism to introduce limited tariffs to reflect this. Single market access entails mirroring single market rules, so if there is divergence from those rules then the access has to be revisited. I don't think that's especially unreasonable given that their priority is preserving the integrity of the single market. There ought to be workable mechanisms around this but the UK seems to have left it to the last minute to enter seriously into negotiations and still hasn't realised it can't have its cake and eat it. That means we've effectively run out of time to resolve what is a quite complex issue.
But all of this is an issue in the first place because of us. Not only did we vote to leave, we immediately set a number of red lines that were fundamentally incompatible with agreeing a deal that amounted to full single market access. We seem to have then spent 3 years expecting the EU to sort the mess out for us. Every bit of insider info from the talks suggests we've been incredibly poorly briefed, have lacked any kind of coherent plan, and have shown quite staggering arrogance at key times. It's an utter car crash. | |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 10:43 - Dec 13 with 666 views | bluelagos |
| "Oven-ready" - on 10:23 - Dec 13 by Herbivore |
Fair enough, and thanks for the response. I agree the fishing bit is a bit of a nonsense and probably easily resolved. The level playing field stuff is more tricky. The EU quite justifiably feel that if there is divergence that creates unfair competition from the UK that there needs to be a mechanism to introduce limited tariffs to reflect this. Single market access entails mirroring single market rules, so if there is divergence from those rules then the access has to be revisited. I don't think that's especially unreasonable given that their priority is preserving the integrity of the single market. There ought to be workable mechanisms around this but the UK seems to have left it to the last minute to enter seriously into negotiations and still hasn't realised it can't have its cake and eat it. That means we've effectively run out of time to resolve what is a quite complex issue.
But all of this is an issue in the first place because of us. Not only did we vote to leave, we immediately set a number of red lines that were fundamentally incompatible with agreeing a deal that amounted to full single market access. We seem to have then spent 3 years expecting the EU to sort the mess out for us. Every bit of insider info from the talks suggests we've been incredibly poorly briefed, have lacked any kind of coherent plan, and have shown quite staggering arrogance at key times. It's an utter car crash. |
Indeed, the complete misreading of how the EU functions has been breathtaking. That our Tory politicians are so ill-informed, inept and cavalier with our economic prospects is breathtaking.
The German car manufacturers would step in.
The EU will splinter.
The EU need us more than them.
We hold all the cards.
The easiest trade deal ever... | |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 10:46 - Dec 13 with 653 views | Churchman |
| "Oven-ready" - on 10:23 - Dec 13 by Herbivore |
Fair enough, and thanks for the response. I agree the fishing bit is a bit of a nonsense and probably easily resolved. The level playing field stuff is more tricky. The EU quite justifiably feel that if there is divergence that creates unfair competition from the UK that there needs to be a mechanism to introduce limited tariffs to reflect this. Single market access entails mirroring single market rules, so if there is divergence from those rules then the access has to be revisited. I don't think that's especially unreasonable given that their priority is preserving the integrity of the single market. There ought to be workable mechanisms around this but the UK seems to have left it to the last minute to enter seriously into negotiations and still hasn't realised it can't have its cake and eat it. That means we've effectively run out of time to resolve what is a quite complex issue.
But all of this is an issue in the first place because of us. Not only did we vote to leave, we immediately set a number of red lines that were fundamentally incompatible with agreeing a deal that amounted to full single market access. We seem to have then spent 3 years expecting the EU to sort the mess out for us. Every bit of insider info from the talks suggests we've been incredibly poorly briefed, have lacked any kind of coherent plan, and have shown quite staggering arrogance at key times. It's an utter car crash. |
No problem at all. Unfortunately I’m no longer as close to all this as I was and in the last 18 months have distanced myself from it all so I’m probably wrong on a lot of it now.
My understanding is that all agreements have mechanisms to avoid dumping/unfair competition etc. It’s the mechanism the EU wants and the way they want to regulate it that I object to. It goes beyond any other trade agreement and I don’t think in our shrinking world distance has anything to do with it. There is a balance to be had between preventing unfair trade and unfairly restricting competition and it’s a tricky one. But not insoluble.
As far as negotiators the UK has been amateur night from the start. I always felt that the uk from the off should have employed the best negotiators money could buy. They didn’t.
I agree re red lines. Talk about painting yourself into a hole. Sadly the EU did the same and has changed its demands as time has gone on (re introducing the ratchet clause for example). As for arrogance, I think both sides have shown that. The uk has added a bid fat dose of ignorance to it. In 2016/17 the politicians had no idea how the EU worked or the UK come to that. The EU certainly knew it’s business and we’ve been playing catch up ever since.
Foolish all this, when people’s livelihoods are at stake. Ok the UK caused this, but basic reality is that we are where we are now and a trade deal is in everyone’s interests. So get on and sort one is my view. You are right. A total car crash. | | | |
| "Oven-ready" - on 10:59 - Dec 13 with 629 views | Darth_Koont |
| "Oven-ready" - on 10:43 - Dec 13 by bluelagos |
Indeed, the complete misreading of how the EU functions has been breathtaking. That our Tory politicians are so ill-informed, inept and cavalier with our economic prospects is breathtaking.
The German car manufacturers would step in.
The EU will splinter.
The EU need us more than them.
We hold all the cards.
The easiest trade deal ever... |
Yep. And it’s not just incompetence, there’s also a fair smattering of misinformation and wilfully misleading the public in all this.
Why? Because far too many of the Tories and their key supporters are personally insulated against the worst effects of Brexit, indeed many will thrive in a deregulated, free-wheeling and tax-dodging future. And because Brexit has been electoral crack, a sure-fire vote winner on nationalist and populist grounds that don’t even belong in the last century let alone this one.
Again, I have to come back to a media that is also incompetent and/or misleading the public for the same reasons. And entirely compromised as it enjoys being part of the establishment way too much.
In combination, and backed by a public that still hasn’t twigged how their best interests are being p1ssed away by a political and media class who just don’t care, there’s little genuine hope the UK can survive or even turn its bottom-scraping trajectory around. | |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 11:02 - Dec 13 with 622 views | Swansea_Blue |
| "Oven-ready" - on 10:46 - Dec 13 by Churchman |
No problem at all. Unfortunately I’m no longer as close to all this as I was and in the last 18 months have distanced myself from it all so I’m probably wrong on a lot of it now.
My understanding is that all agreements have mechanisms to avoid dumping/unfair competition etc. It’s the mechanism the EU wants and the way they want to regulate it that I object to. It goes beyond any other trade agreement and I don’t think in our shrinking world distance has anything to do with it. There is a balance to be had between preventing unfair trade and unfairly restricting competition and it’s a tricky one. But not insoluble.
As far as negotiators the UK has been amateur night from the start. I always felt that the uk from the off should have employed the best negotiators money could buy. They didn’t.
I agree re red lines. Talk about painting yourself into a hole. Sadly the EU did the same and has changed its demands as time has gone on (re introducing the ratchet clause for example). As for arrogance, I think both sides have shown that. The uk has added a bid fat dose of ignorance to it. In 2016/17 the politicians had no idea how the EU worked or the UK come to that. The EU certainly knew it’s business and we’ve been playing catch up ever since.
Foolish all this, when people’s livelihoods are at stake. Ok the UK caused this, but basic reality is that we are where we are now and a trade deal is in everyone’s interests. So get on and sort one is my view. You are right. A total car crash. |
The EU has compromised on the ratchet clause and is no longer insisting on it. That come out this weekend; the same weekend that our gutter press have attacked France and Germany including personal attacks on their leaders.
I’m equally annoyed about the damage this is doing and embarrassed about the way we are behaving. All so unnecessary. |  |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 11:03 - Dec 13 with 621 views | bluelagos |
| "Oven-ready" - on 10:59 - Dec 13 by Darth_Koont |
Yep. And it’s not just incompetence, there’s also a fair smattering of misinformation and wilfully misleading the public in all this.
Why? Because far too many of the Tories and their key supporters are personally insulated against the worst effects of Brexit, indeed many will thrive in a deregulated, free-wheeling and tax-dodging future. And because Brexit has been electoral crack, a sure-fire vote winner on nationalist and populist grounds that don’t even belong in the last century let alone this one.
Again, I have to come back to a media that is also incompetent and/or misleading the public for the same reasons. And entirely compromised as it enjoys being part of the establishment way too much.
In combination, and backed by a public that still hasn’t twigged how their best interests are being p1ssed away by a political and media class who just don’t care, there’s little genuine hope the UK can survive or even turn its bottom-scraping trajectory around. |
If we end up no deal, am struggling to see the Scots not jumping at Independence. Boris and the Tories responsible for breaking up the UK.
Surely he knows that? He has to do the deal... | |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 11:15 - Dec 13 with 605 views | Darth_Koont |
| "Oven-ready" - on 11:03 - Dec 13 by bluelagos |
If we end up no deal, am struggling to see the Scots not jumping at Independence. Boris and the Tories responsible for breaking up the UK.
Surely he knows that? He has to do the deal... |
To be honest, I think they’re gone anyway. This has been going on for a decade or more in Scotland. And it’s not just Brexit and it’s not just the Tories - that’s the perfect storm of incompetence, lies and inadequate representation of the UK citizens and their best interests.
The UK just isn’t fit for purpose with such a self-serving establishment in charge. The whole thing needs a shake up and a quite a few figurative slaps to be dealt out. [Post edited 13 Dec 2020 11:26]
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| "Oven-ready" - on 11:16 - Dec 13 with 600 views | Swansea_Blue |
| "Oven-ready" - on 10:43 - Dec 13 by bluelagos |
Indeed, the complete misreading of how the EU functions has been breathtaking. That our Tory politicians are so ill-informed, inept and cavalier with our economic prospects is breathtaking.
The German car manufacturers would step in.
The EU will splinter.
The EU need us more than them.
We hold all the cards.
The easiest trade deal ever... |
They’re still doing it. And it’s not just Tory; Brexiteers of all colours seem a special breed. I think it was Gisela Stuart who said just the other day that she hadn’t realised how protective the EU would be over the SM.
It beggars belief, it really does. Still, she’s got herself her peerage out of it so that’s all that matters. [Post edited 13 Dec 2020 11:17]
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| "Oven-ready" - on 11:23 - Dec 13 with 585 views | eireblue |
| "Oven-ready" - on 09:23 - Dec 13 by GlasgowBlue |
There seems to be a lack of compromise from either side. nd compromise in in the best interests of the UK and the EU.
It's quite sad to see the hard core brexiteers treating the EU like the enemy and only seeing fault with the other side, whilst equally sad to see the hard core remainers only see fault on the side of our government.
And that goes for people on here. Perhaps Ullaa being the only exception. |
If the agreement is 97% done then there has been compromise.
Don’t forgot, the previous Prime Minister did have a deal.
So plenty of compromise occurred to get the previous deal.
I would suggest that the issue is one of Trust.
Boris Johnson and the Tory government is not trustworthy.
If you enter into an agreement with people that are not trustworthy, I think most people would agree, that you would want very tight policing and clear recompense set out in cases of breach. |  | | |
| "Oven-ready" - on 11:57 - Dec 13 with 555 views | GlasgowBlue |
| "Oven-ready" - on 09:39 - Dec 13 by vapour_trail |
Incomprehensible levels of hypocrisy.
People like you created this narrative of the EU. Stop trying to distance yourself from it. |
I advocated a soft Brexit from the start. I've never once advocated no deal and have repeatedly said that no deal would me an unmitigated disaster.
Glad to see I'm still squatting with Ryorry in your head 24/7 though vapers me old mucker. | |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 12:24 - Dec 13 with 518 views | Darth_Koont |
| "Oven-ready" - on 11:57 - Dec 13 by GlasgowBlue |
I advocated a soft Brexit from the start. I've never once advocated no deal and have repeatedly said that no deal would me an unmitigated disaster.
Glad to see I'm still squatting with Ryorry in your head 24/7 though vapers me old mucker. |
What’s your definition of a Soft Brexit? I don’t remember you pitching that at all. | |
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