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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story 09:40 - Dec 22 with 3922 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

But where does parental responsibility come into this? They're blaming their child's murder on the fact he was excluded from school, ended up going down the wrong path and getting in with the wrong crowd, lost any sense of self discipline, and was then murdered as thought to be part of a gang. But all this is the fault of the school for excluding him in the first place?!?

They don't really go into what he was excluded for, but should kids NEVER be excluded, no matter what they do, because of the path they might end up on? Am I wrong to think the parents are looking for someone to blame while covering up their own failings as parents? Not really sure you can blame the school for this chain of events.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-55353958

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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 09:45 - Dec 22 with 2770 viewsusm

Dont you know the rules, Flasher?

Its always somebody else's fault, and if there is no-one to blame, then its the Government's fault.

Personal responsibility is so 1990's.

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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 09:47 - Dec 22 with 2762 viewsJ2BLUE

A Serious Case Review said his exclusion "was a catalyst to the deterioration in his behaviour".




Seems fair enough. Sometimes the best parents can’t stop their child from self destructing.

Truly impaired.
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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 10:01 - Dec 22 with 2716 viewsMookamoo

The exclusion was quashed by an Independent Review Panel. However, the school refused to reinstate him.

If the school didn't provide the appropriate support or the local authority didn't offer the resources then they're part of the problem - no wonder an angry family is lashing out. I would imagine if the resources were in place to investigate possible a diagnosis of an underlying issue, maybe ADHD/ASD then the outcome would have been different.
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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 10:15 - Dec 22 with 2672 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 09:47 - Dec 22 by J2BLUE

A Serious Case Review said his exclusion "was a catalyst to the deterioration in his behaviour".




Seems fair enough. Sometimes the best parents can’t stop their child from self destructing.


It may well have been the catalyst... but why was he excluded in the first place? I was never excluded from school.
Surely the parents still have some responsibility?

I just don't see how this can all be blamed on the school. I presume kids get excluded for a very good reason?

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 10:54 - Dec 22 with 2599 viewsMookamoo

I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 10:15 - Dec 22 by The_Flashing_Smile

It may well have been the catalyst... but why was he excluded in the first place? I was never excluded from school.
Surely the parents still have some responsibility?

I just don't see how this can all be blamed on the school. I presume kids get excluded for a very good reason?


The article says he was excluded after a prank involving a teacher's coat. That will be the straw that broke the camel's back.

Some children are just disruptive, but most will have either a diagnosis which will be a barrier to their learning, or should have. I can only speak of those with Autism, but the delay in the diagnosis and the support this then triggers can be in years. Even then, some schools just don't engage, and this is becoming worse with the rise in academies as they're no longer obliged to take SEND kids - they are resource heavy and they get forced out.

It would have ben a huge effort to get the child into school in the first place. Once he was there then the school would be expected to make reasonable adjustments to support his learning - but this only really happens with a diagnosis as schools are so woefully underfunded.

Those kids are much more vulnerable and will be easy targets for gangs and other negative influences and it then becomes very difficult for parents.
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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 11:05 - Dec 22 with 2561 viewsArnieM

A Childs welfare and discipline should always begin at home. Sadly this often does not happen.

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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 11:05 - Dec 22 with 2560 viewsJeanManuelThetis

I'm not sure you've properly read the article.

Firstly, he wasn't part of a gang, this has been confirmed by the police.

Secondly, after being expelled from school, his parents clearly did their best to find better educational provision for him, even providing home tutoring after he was first attacked and often not allowing him to go out and socialise.

The fact that they won an appeal against his expulsion, yet the school refused to allow his return or work with the parents to find a proper solution, is a damming indictment of the local educational authority who let the family down.

This is not rural Suffolk, it's a diverse and complex borough of London (that I live and work in) that as young person of colour, has certain risks and challenges far greater than most parents face around the country.
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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 11:23 - Dec 22 with 2516 viewsmonytowbray

As someone who felt massively misunderstood, unmotivated and unsupported by the schooling system that failed to even spot my problems, let alone handle them, I can see the dots connect.

I remember spending an hour being interrogated by the “social support trained” teacher when I was 15 to get me to confess to taking drugs I’d never even seen or heard of. Apparently I showed tell tale signs of being on “everything and anything I could get my hands on” lol, at this point all I did was smoke a bit of green.

I was also at that point undiagnosed with depression and anxiety, it wasn’t until my mid-20s I’d learn the tunnel vision, racing heartbeat, clammy feeling and general terror I’d feel once a day minimum for a couple of hours was via panic attacks.

Granted, I was also an outspoken smart ass who stood by my beliefs but so is my daughter. Many of my teenage flaws (or so I was told they were) have become things I pride myself on in adult life.

Schools are generally awful at spotting children who have problems at home unless they are blatant.

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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 11:48 - Dec 22 with 2450 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 10:54 - Dec 22 by Mookamoo

The article says he was excluded after a prank involving a teacher's coat. That will be the straw that broke the camel's back.

Some children are just disruptive, but most will have either a diagnosis which will be a barrier to their learning, or should have. I can only speak of those with Autism, but the delay in the diagnosis and the support this then triggers can be in years. Even then, some schools just don't engage, and this is becoming worse with the rise in academies as they're no longer obliged to take SEND kids - they are resource heavy and they get forced out.

It would have ben a huge effort to get the child into school in the first place. Once he was there then the school would be expected to make reasonable adjustments to support his learning - but this only really happens with a diagnosis as schools are so woefully underfunded.

Those kids are much more vulnerable and will be easy targets for gangs and other negative influences and it then becomes very difficult for parents.


While I agree with all you say, there's no evidence in the story that this kid had autism. If the headline was "School Criticised For Excluding Murdered Autistic Child' it would be a very different story.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 11:56 - Dec 22 with 2425 viewsIllinoisblue

It’s a tragic situation. What would be really genuinely interesting is a fly on the wall documentary about that Inspire! place.

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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 12:01 - Dec 22 with 2405 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 11:05 - Dec 22 by JeanManuelThetis

I'm not sure you've properly read the article.

Firstly, he wasn't part of a gang, this has been confirmed by the police.

Secondly, after being expelled from school, his parents clearly did their best to find better educational provision for him, even providing home tutoring after he was first attacked and often not allowing him to go out and socialise.

The fact that they won an appeal against his expulsion, yet the school refused to allow his return or work with the parents to find a proper solution, is a damming indictment of the local educational authority who let the family down.

This is not rural Suffolk, it's a diverse and complex borough of London (that I live and work in) that as young person of colour, has certain risks and challenges far greater than most parents face around the country.


I'm not sure you've read my OP properly. I said he was "murdered as THOUGHT to be part of a gang."

The second part about home schooling is irrelevant to what I'm saying.

I'm not saying the school is blameless - I'm asking why ALL this is the school's fault. You say the local educational authority let the family down - but it's not their fault the kid was so disruptive that he had to be excluded initially. And the fact that they still wouldn't let him back after the appeal shows how desperate they were to keep him out. Let's face it, there's the welfare of the other pupils to think about too.

Not sure why you mention rural Suffolk. I'm not from Suffolk, I live in south London. The fact that they live in a challenging area still doesn't mean it's all the school's fault, to me.

Where is the responsibility of the parenting in the first instance? Other kids in that school weren't excluded and refused entry after appeal.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 12:10 - Dec 22 with 2378 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 11:23 - Dec 22 by monytowbray

As someone who felt massively misunderstood, unmotivated and unsupported by the schooling system that failed to even spot my problems, let alone handle them, I can see the dots connect.

I remember spending an hour being interrogated by the “social support trained” teacher when I was 15 to get me to confess to taking drugs I’d never even seen or heard of. Apparently I showed tell tale signs of being on “everything and anything I could get my hands on” lol, at this point all I did was smoke a bit of green.

I was also at that point undiagnosed with depression and anxiety, it wasn’t until my mid-20s I’d learn the tunnel vision, racing heartbeat, clammy feeling and general terror I’d feel once a day minimum for a couple of hours was via panic attacks.

Granted, I was also an outspoken smart ass who stood by my beliefs but so is my daughter. Many of my teenage flaws (or so I was told they were) have become things I pride myself on in adult life.

Schools are generally awful at spotting children who have problems at home unless they are blatant.


I don't disagree with anything you've said there Callis. As you know, I've also had my issues with anxiety and depression, and I think it's disgraceful these things aren't taught properly in schools (which would've saved 12 years of my life searching for an answer to something that was happening to me I didn't even understand).

But as I said to the poster above, there's nothing in this story about the child's mental health issues, so you're both adding something that to our knowledge isn't there.

Regardless, I just don't see how this is ALL the school's fault. There has to be some parental responsibility?

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 13:15 - Dec 22 with 2285 viewseireblue

I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 12:10 - Dec 22 by The_Flashing_Smile

I don't disagree with anything you've said there Callis. As you know, I've also had my issues with anxiety and depression, and I think it's disgraceful these things aren't taught properly in schools (which would've saved 12 years of my life searching for an answer to something that was happening to me I didn't even understand).

But as I said to the poster above, there's nothing in this story about the child's mental health issues, so you're both adding something that to our knowledge isn't there.

Regardless, I just don't see how this is ALL the school's fault. There has to be some parental responsibility?


In the article, does it say it was “ALL the schools fault”?
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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 13:49 - Dec 22 with 2222 viewsMookamoo

I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 11:48 - Dec 22 by The_Flashing_Smile

While I agree with all you say, there's no evidence in the story that this kid had autism. If the headline was "School Criticised For Excluding Murdered Autistic Child' it would be a very different story.


I was using that as an example of the myriad of other factors that might need to be considered.

To blame the parents is a dangerous Daily Mailesque over simplification.
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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 13:58 - Dec 22 with 2192 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 13:49 - Dec 22 by Mookamoo

I was using that as an example of the myriad of other factors that might need to be considered.

To blame the parents is a dangerous Daily Mailesque over simplification.


I'm not blaming the parents either. I'm saying they need to take some responsibility rather than just looking for others to blame. I thought I'd made that quite clear.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 14:00 - Dec 22 with 2187 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 13:15 - Dec 22 by eireblue

In the article, does it say it was “ALL the schools fault”?


"His family insist Tashaun's exclusion was the crucial issue.
'That's the genesis,' his stepfather Kevin said."

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 14:12 - Dec 22 with 2165 viewsMookamoo

I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 13:58 - Dec 22 by The_Flashing_Smile

I'm not blaming the parents either. I'm saying they need to take some responsibility rather than just looking for others to blame. I thought I'd made that quite clear.


"Am I wrong to think the parents are looking for someone to blame while covering up their own failings as parents?"

Yes you are.
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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 15:09 - Dec 22 with 2096 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 14:12 - Dec 22 by Mookamoo

"Am I wrong to think the parents are looking for someone to blame while covering up their own failings as parents?"

Yes you are.


Can you read? I'm not solely blaming the parents, I'm saying they have to take some responsibility. I've said this several times!

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 15:20 - Dec 22 with 2065 viewsDanTheMan

I'm sure they feel enough guilt, what with their child having been murdered. Their complaints also seem to be backed from outside reviews so I'm not sure what your issue is here.

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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 15:22 - Dec 22 with 2045 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 15:20 - Dec 22 by DanTheMan

I'm sure they feel enough guilt, what with their child having been murdered. Their complaints also seem to be backed from outside reviews so I'm not sure what your issue is here.


I think my issue has been clearly laid out in the OP and the rest of the thread. You think this is all the fault of the school? That's clearly who the parents blame.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 15:26 - Dec 22 with 2041 viewsDanTheMan

I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 15:22 - Dec 22 by The_Flashing_Smile

I think my issue has been clearly laid out in the OP and the rest of the thread. You think this is all the fault of the school? That's clearly who the parents blame.


I wouldn't know, I don't have anywhere near all of the facts. I'm also not a parent, so I'm not going to judge those who are, especially as it seems the kid had unresolved issues. Given the state of mental health in this country, that does not exactly come as a surprise.

From the article, it seems there is some blame for multiple parties, but I'm not seeing much there being directed at the parents. Maybe you know more about this than me, but it seems like they have every right to feel aggrieved.

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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 15:46 - Dec 22 with 2018 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 15:26 - Dec 22 by DanTheMan

I wouldn't know, I don't have anywhere near all of the facts. I'm also not a parent, so I'm not going to judge those who are, especially as it seems the kid had unresolved issues. Given the state of mental health in this country, that does not exactly come as a surprise.

From the article, it seems there is some blame for multiple parties, but I'm not seeing much there being directed at the parents. Maybe you know more about this than me, but it seems like they have every right to feel aggrieved.


This is my main issue;

"His family insist Tashaun's exclusion was the crucial issue.
'That's the genesis,' his stepfather Kevin said."

They're blaming the way he ended up on the school excluding him. To me that's wrong. A school doesn't exclude a pupil for the fun of it. And the fact it's the parents saying that is even worse. Do they have NO responsibility?

It's a tragic story, but how anyone can blame the school for how it ended up, because they excluded a disruptive child, is beyond me.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 15:57 - Dec 22 with 1984 viewsDanTheMan

I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 15:46 - Dec 22 by The_Flashing_Smile

This is my main issue;

"His family insist Tashaun's exclusion was the crucial issue.
'That's the genesis,' his stepfather Kevin said."

They're blaming the way he ended up on the school excluding him. To me that's wrong. A school doesn't exclude a pupil for the fun of it. And the fact it's the parents saying that is even worse. Do they have NO responsibility?

It's a tragic story, but how anyone can blame the school for how it ended up, because they excluded a disruptive child, is beyond me.


OK but in the first couple of lines...

A Serious Case Review said his exclusion "was a catalyst to the deterioration in his behaviour".

So they are apparently not wrong in that belief. They (the parents) do also not go into anything else, at least in the article. So you are taking issue with something that may not even be true, they may feel some responsibility but it's just not outlined.

And you're also ignoring the fact it appears the exclusion was afterwards overturned but the school outright refused to let him back in.

I really don't understand how you've come to the conclusion you have.

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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 16:14 - Dec 22 with 1946 viewsMookamoo

I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 15:46 - Dec 22 by The_Flashing_Smile

This is my main issue;

"His family insist Tashaun's exclusion was the crucial issue.
'That's the genesis,' his stepfather Kevin said."

They're blaming the way he ended up on the school excluding him. To me that's wrong. A school doesn't exclude a pupil for the fun of it. And the fact it's the parents saying that is even worse. Do they have NO responsibility?

It's a tragic story, but how anyone can blame the school for how it ended up, because they excluded a disruptive child, is beyond me.


The Serious Case Review has said the school were determined to exclude him. Working with young people with additional needs, this is often the case, especially in free schools and academies as they have different rules to schools run by the local authority. Unfortunately all too often a child who is disruptive is put in the situation where they're going to fail. If the support was there, they would, in most cases, stay in school. In this case it appears Tashaun wasn't given the support he deserved and the school have been instrumental in sending him down that path. My point stands there is almost always an underlying reason for negative behaviour, either diagnosed or otherwise and the school should have been able to work with him. I hope the review will look at if this was wilful neglect or a lack of resources.

I assume you can see the picture of Tashoya who appears to be in a graduation gown. I think that suggests a stable parental environment. You've gone out of your way to add an entire thread in order to attribute blame to the parents. That is wrong.
[Post edited 22 Dec 2020 16:15]
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I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 16:14 - Dec 22 with 1945 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

I may be out of line here, or missing something, and this is a tragic story on 15:57 - Dec 22 by DanTheMan

OK but in the first couple of lines...

A Serious Case Review said his exclusion "was a catalyst to the deterioration in his behaviour".

So they are apparently not wrong in that belief. They (the parents) do also not go into anything else, at least in the article. So you are taking issue with something that may not even be true, they may feel some responsibility but it's just not outlined.

And you're also ignoring the fact it appears the exclusion was afterwards overturned but the school outright refused to let him back in.

I really don't understand how you've come to the conclusion you have.


You make a fair point that they may feel some responsibility but it's just not outlined. Other than that we'll have to agree to disagree because I can't understand how you can't understand my conclusion (which others in the thread have also come to).

The Serious Case Review would only be dealing with the case of the school, so wouldn't make any comment on the parents anyway.

I wonder, do you think kids should not be excluded from school, in any cases, because of what might become of them thereafter?

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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