| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) 15:34 - Dec 23 with 7381 views | unstableblue |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:44 - Dec 23 with 3141 views | factual_blue |
Good. |  |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:48 - Dec 23 with 3120 views | bluebudgie |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:44 - Dec 23 by factual_blue |
Good. |
Why Good?the country is now being run by scientists who have got every decision wrong. Are you going to have a lockdown every time a new mutation is found because COVID is a virus and viruses have many mutations. I think some people wont be pleased until the entire country is bankrupt. |  | | |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:49 - Dec 23 with 3099 views | homer_123 |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:48 - Dec 23 by bluebudgie |
Why Good?the country is now being run by scientists who have got every decision wrong. Are you going to have a lockdown every time a new mutation is found because COVID is a virus and viruses have many mutations. I think some people wont be pleased until the entire country is bankrupt. |
Have you taken a proper look at the current figures? |  |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:57 - Dec 23 with 3057 views | StokieBlue |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:48 - Dec 23 by bluebudgie |
Why Good?the country is now being run by scientists who have got every decision wrong. Are you going to have a lockdown every time a new mutation is found because COVID is a virus and viruses have many mutations. I think some people wont be pleased until the entire country is bankrupt. |
The scientists don't make decisions, they give advice.
If you are upset about the decisions (which you should be in many cases) then you should be upset at the government.
What do you think should happen? Tier 4 seems the correct decision based on the evidence.
SB |  |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:57 - Dec 23 with 3057 views | bluebudgie |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:49 - Dec 23 by homer_123 |
Have you taken a proper look at the current figures? |
I would not believe any figures these so called scientists come out with. That's the problem with this government they are only taking advice from those who would have us in lockdown forever. The premise is to save the NHS but if nobodies paying tax or national insurance there will be no NHS,We cant keep hiding from this virus forever. I | | | |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:58 - Dec 23 with 3038 views | NthQldITFC |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:48 - Dec 23 by bluebudgie |
Why Good?the country is now being run by scientists who have got every decision wrong. Are you going to have a lockdown every time a new mutation is found because COVID is a virus and viruses have many mutations. I think some people wont be pleased until the entire country is bankrupt. |
Yes, I think that hoping for widespread bankruptcy has to be the main motivation. I think you've nailed it. You ought to be running things. |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:58 - Dec 23 with 3027 views | StokieBlue |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:57 - Dec 23 by bluebudgie |
I would not believe any figures these so called scientists come out with. That's the problem with this government they are only taking advice from those who would have us in lockdown forever. The premise is to save the NHS but if nobodies paying tax or national insurance there will be no NHS,We cant keep hiding from this virus forever. I |
You don't believe "so called" scientists?
I'm going to assume it's frustration at being placed in tier 4 rather than your actual attitude to scientists.
SB [Post edited 23 Dec 2020 16:32]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:59 - Dec 23 with 3006 views | vapour_trail |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:57 - Dec 23 by bluebudgie |
I would not believe any figures these so called scientists come out with. That's the problem with this government they are only taking advice from those who would have us in lockdown forever. The premise is to save the NHS but if nobodies paying tax or national insurance there will be no NHS,We cant keep hiding from this virus forever. I |
So called scientists.
FFS. |  |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:03 - Dec 23 with 2968 views | bluebudgie |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:59 - Dec 23 by vapour_trail |
So called scientists.
FFS. |
Please tell me what advice the scientists have given so far has worked??? | | | |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:05 - Dec 23 with 2956 views | bluelagos |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:48 - Dec 23 by bluebudgie |
Why Good?the country is now being run by scientists who have got every decision wrong. Are you going to have a lockdown every time a new mutation is found because COVID is a virus and viruses have many mutations. I think some people wont be pleased until the entire country is bankrupt. |
I share your frustration. Why anyone would say "Good" is beyond me tbh.
But sadly I think it is inevitable at the moment given the increasing rates of CV and the high hospitalisation rates and lack of spaces for significantly higher admissions.
You are right that continuous lockdowns is not sustainable, but fortunately we have a vaccine so we are a matter of months away from vaccinating the most vulnerable so we should be able to move on then.
Frustrating as fck but we don't really have an alternative that I can see that doesn't involve significant deaths of the elderly and vulnerable. [Post edited 23 Dec 2020 16:08]
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:06 - Dec 23 with 2945 views | StokieBlue |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:03 - Dec 23 by bluebudgie |
Please tell me what advice the scientists have given so far has worked??? |
Virtually all of it if it had been implemented.
It's about minimising the virus, not some magic wand to get everything back to how it was in 2019.
Do you have any conception of what things would be like without any of the measures? What the hospitals would look like with a virus with a default R value between 2.8 and 3.4 running amok? What the death toll would be?
Lockdowns are clearly frustrating but they do work and we have very little choice at this particularly time.
SB [Post edited 23 Dec 2020 16:08]
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:07 - Dec 23 with 2935 views | bluelagos |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:03 - Dec 23 by bluebudgie |
Please tell me what advice the scientists have given so far has worked??? |
That lockdowns surpress the virus. They have never claimed it would finish it off. That has been shown to work, albeit in limiting the deaths rather than stopping the virus 100%.
It is a blunt and deeply unsatisfactory instrument but at the moment we don't have any others to use sadly. | |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:07 - Dec 23 with 2939 views | judespiveyg |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:05 - Dec 23 by bluelagos |
I share your frustration. Why anyone would say "Good" is beyond me tbh.
But sadly I think it is inevitable at the moment given the increasing rates of CV and the high hospitalisation rates and lack of spaces for significantly higher admissions.
You are right that continuous lockdowns is not sustainable, but fortunately we have a vaccine so we are a matter of months away from vaccinating the most vulnerable so we should be able to move on then.
Frustrating as fck but we don't really have an alternative that I can see that doesn't involve significant deaths of the elderly and vulnerable. [Post edited 23 Dec 2020 16:08]
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Agreed, its the sensible decision but I'm not going to pretend I wasn't disappointed to hear the news. |  |
| I survived Ipswich 0-0 Burton |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:09 - Dec 23 with 2914 views | soupytwist |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:48 - Dec 23 by bluebudgie |
Why Good?the country is now being run by scientists who have got every decision wrong. Are you going to have a lockdown every time a new mutation is found because COVID is a virus and viruses have many mutations. I think some people wont be pleased until the entire country is bankrupt. |
This isn't the first mutation in the Covid 19 virus and it won't be the last. Here's an article in a respected 'so-called' scientific journal which explains more - https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02544-6
We haven't had a lockdown when previous mutations have been discovered but this one presents particular challenges which need to be addressed.
The next mutations might not present new challenges so we might not need to take new action. |  | | |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:10 - Dec 23 with 2890 views | bluelagos |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:07 - Dec 23 by judespiveyg |
Agreed, its the sensible decision but I'm not going to pretend I wasn't disappointed to hear the news. |
That's where my head is at. I think it was inevitable given the latest data but I'd much rather we didn't have to.
People saying it's "good" have a warped sense of what is good imho. | |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:11 - Dec 23 with 2890 views | bluebudgie |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:59 - Dec 23 by vapour_trail |
So called scientists.
FFS. |
The scientists the government should be listening too are Dr Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University, an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, vaccine development, and mathematical modelling of infectious diseases. Angus Dalgleish, oncologist, infectious disease expert and professor, St. George’s Hospital and university of London Dr. Alexander Walker, principal at World Health Information Science Consultants, former Chair of Epidemiology, Harvard TH Chan School of Public Health, USA and many other eminent scientists with a totally different option to the ones the government listens too. | | | |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:12 - Dec 23 with 2881 views | StokieBlue |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:10 - Dec 23 by bluelagos |
That's where my head is at. I think it was inevitable given the latest data but I'd much rather we didn't have to.
People saying it's "good" have a warped sense of what is good imho. |
Although Factors is in a much more risk cohort than yourself and doesn't work and thus might actually feel it's good to go to tier 4 and limit the spread and risk.
Circumstances are different for each individual.
SB | |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:14 - Dec 23 with 2857 views | StokieBlue |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:11 - Dec 23 by bluebudgie |
The scientists the government should be listening too are Dr Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University, an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, vaccine development, and mathematical modelling of infectious diseases. Angus Dalgleish, oncologist, infectious disease expert and professor, St. George’s Hospital and university of London Dr. Alexander Walker, principal at World Health Information Science Consultants, former Chair of Epidemiology, Harvard TH Chan School of Public Health, USA and many other eminent scientists with a totally different option to the ones the government listens too. |
So basically the Barrington scientists who happen to agree with your stance.
That approach wasn't right then and it's even more wrong now with a much more contagious virus.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:17 - Dec 23 with 2831 views | homer_123 |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:11 - Dec 23 by bluebudgie |
The scientists the government should be listening too are Dr Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University, an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, vaccine development, and mathematical modelling of infectious diseases. Angus Dalgleish, oncologist, infectious disease expert and professor, St. George’s Hospital and university of London Dr. Alexander Walker, principal at World Health Information Science Consultants, former Chair of Epidemiology, Harvard TH Chan School of Public Health, USA and many other eminent scientists with a totally different option to the ones the government listens too. |
So...do you support Dr Sunetra Gupta view that there shouldn't be lockdowns because that works or because it fits with your personal view? | |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:20 - Dec 23 with 2810 views | mikeybloo88 |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:49 - Dec 23 by homer_123 |
Have you taken a proper look at the current figures? |
Which figures would you like us to look at?
Number of businesses closing?
Unemployment figures?
Cancer deaths?
Suicides?
Urgent operation cancellation figures?
Or just the figures which you've deemed matter.. |  | | |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:21 - Dec 23 with 2792 views | WD19 |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:57 - Dec 23 by bluebudgie |
I would not believe any figures these so called scientists come out with. That's the problem with this government they are only taking advice from those who would have us in lockdown forever. The premise is to save the NHS but if nobodies paying tax or national insurance there will be no NHS,We cant keep hiding from this virus forever. I |
"So called scientists"
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:27 - Dec 23 with 2752 views | bluelagos |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:20 - Dec 23 by mikeybloo88 |
Which figures would you like us to look at?
Number of businesses closing?
Unemployment figures?
Cancer deaths?
Suicides?
Urgent operation cancellation figures?
Or just the figures which you've deemed matter.. |
You make a valid point that the decision should take into account more than just the deaths from CV. Lockdowns have huge amounts of downsides (some of which you point out) and as ever, the most polarised positions seem incredibly ignorant of the holistic approach that is required to make the right decision.
But I think that the NHS is borderline overun at the moment - and that should it become so, would literally mean them turning away people they could otherwise treat, for me that trumps the many downsides of the lockdown.
It is, much like previous lockdowns, a horrible decision to have to take but an unavoidable one too. | |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:28 - Dec 23 with 2750 views | homer_123 |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:20 - Dec 23 by mikeybloo88 |
Which figures would you like us to look at?
Number of businesses closing?
Unemployment figures?
Cancer deaths?
Suicides?
Urgent operation cancellation figures?
Or just the figures which you've deemed matter.. |
I've been looking at a range of figures.
Everything from number of cases....deaths....long covid infections....NHS and GP capacity.
Along with mental health figures, short and medium term economic forecasts, unemoyment and more.
I've then, read up from a variety of sources feedback on the above areas, forecasts, models etc. from a pretty wide spectrum that both support my view and those that have a different/very different perspective.
I've then also spoken directly to people i work with both in the NHS and Scientific community and the threat of the current varient to gauge the view from within (luckily we have clients in these areas).
The conclusion is we do need to, sadly, tighten restrictions again. In fact...I think we'll find that we are heading for even tighter restrictions at the beginning on 2021 much moreinline with Italy for example earlier in the year. | |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:30 - Dec 23 with 2725 views | homer_123 |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:27 - Dec 23 by bluelagos |
You make a valid point that the decision should take into account more than just the deaths from CV. Lockdowns have huge amounts of downsides (some of which you point out) and as ever, the most polarised positions seem incredibly ignorant of the holistic approach that is required to make the right decision.
But I think that the NHS is borderline overun at the moment - and that should it become so, would literally mean them turning away people they could otherwise treat, for me that trumps the many downsides of the lockdown.
It is, much like previous lockdowns, a horrible decision to have to take but an unavoidable one too. |
People continue to fail to understand this is a no win situation.
I'm no supporter of the current leadership of this Country but I wouldn't want to be the one calling the shots right now.
Arguably we find ourselves in a worse situ than back in Feb March only tempered by the fact we have vaccines but can't get these out quick enough. | |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:31 - Dec 23 with 2722 views | StokieBlue |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:20 - Dec 23 by mikeybloo88 |
Which figures would you like us to look at?
Number of businesses closing?
Unemployment figures?
Cancer deaths?
Suicides?
Urgent operation cancellation figures?
Or just the figures which you've deemed matter.. |
Those are all important of course, however some of them would be even higher if covid was allowed to run riot as there would be even less hospital capacity than we have now. Suicides are of course vitally important but the last study I saw from the Samaritans said that suicides hadn't increased during the pandemic over the existing curve (which I actually found hard to believe - would be interested to see another study if you have it).
1000+ people were hospitalised on the 21st in just one day with C19 and that's with the existing measures in place. Given that it's hard to see anything we can do except go to tier 4 or perhaps even higher or the NHS is going to be far beyond breaking point.
What do you think should happen then?
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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