| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January 23:30 - Dec 28 with 6941 views | StokieBlue |
They seem very reluctant to take that advice for various reasons (some of which are definitely valid and need to be considered) but the modelling from SAGE and others pretty much says it's impossible to get the R below 1 with the schools open with the new variant (which adds ~0.4 to the baseline R).
"They found that the only scenario that reduced the peak intensive care burden below the levels of the first wave was to impose the tier 4 system across England after Boxing Day and close schools until the end of January, as well as vaccinating 2 million people a week."
We are doing 0/3 of those things at the moment.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/28/coronavirus-michael-gove-reopening
https://www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-uk-government-scientists-close-schoo
SB |  | | |  |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 12:19 - Dec 29 with 3749 views | StokieBlue |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 11:30 - Dec 29 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Help me out....doesn't it mean that out of 100 positive pupils, 40 get missed and stay at school infecting others? |
It could mean that, it's obviously probability based so it can be above or below that but it also means that 100-X positive pupils are getting found, tested with the PCR and once confirmed positive they are removed from the infection chain through isolation.
So it's not perfect but it helps to catch more cases, especially when confirmed with a PCR test and given the speed at which it can be done it's another useful tool.
This is why I disagreed with your original post where you said they "don't work". Within a suite of tools they are helpful.
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 13:21 - Dec 29 with 3684 views | wkj |
The government seem to be in a routine of taking advice retroactively. While the vaccine is a welcome victory in the making, it has also created a very dangerous complacency in some people too. Sadly, I can see the government also acting in a similar fashion.
It is becoming very clear that SAGE has scored a bunch of tap ins during Covid 19 whilst the government are scoring own goals. |  |
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 13:54 - Dec 29 with 3645 views | bluelagos |
This was debated on the radio earlier and a couple of things jumped out at me.
The damage being done to our children by keeping them away from school. They quoted a UN report that highlighted 14 areas where remote learning is not as good as in classroom learning. It is more than learning suffering, we are damaging are children by keeping them in isolation.
Perhaps the most heart warming comment was from a 69 year old who queried could we not prioritise children for the vaccine rather than the elderly? She argued that their well being and future should be put ahead of the elderly who could easily shield a few more months.
And one last point, the damage done to children's learning and children's welfare is far greater for the most disadvantaged children. They have less access to computers, less space (indoor and outside) and (on average) have less focused parents. So the educational attainment gap will get wider still, the more we move to distance learning.
Not saying we should or shouldn't, but this thread seems to have lots of (very valid) arguments for keeping schools closed with little acknowledgement of the massive damage being done when we close schools and/or move learning online. |  |
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 13:56 - Dec 29 with 3635 views | lowhouseblue |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 11:52 - Dec 29 by BanksterDebtSlave |
None of it....just parents and everyone they work with...shops...then. Great! |
you seem to think that the government's policy is to stop everyone catching covid. that has never been the policy. it has been an impossible target since about february, and in addition the government has decided that the cost of attempting it would be too high (wellbeing, freedom, economics, education etc).the government's policy is to manage covid so as to keep hospitalisations comfortably within the capacity of the nhs. you tighten restrictions as capacity is threatened. you relax them when there is a good amount of capacity in reserve. that doesn't seem unreasonable to me. anything that reduces r without imposing tighter restrictions is then a valuable policy tool - eg asymptomatic testing. the problem is that this policy seems to have been blown out of the water by the new covid strain. [Post edited 29 Dec 2020 13:58]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 14:03 - Dec 29 with 3628 views | StokieBlue |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 13:54 - Dec 29 by bluelagos |
This was debated on the radio earlier and a couple of things jumped out at me.
The damage being done to our children by keeping them away from school. They quoted a UN report that highlighted 14 areas where remote learning is not as good as in classroom learning. It is more than learning suffering, we are damaging are children by keeping them in isolation.
Perhaps the most heart warming comment was from a 69 year old who queried could we not prioritise children for the vaccine rather than the elderly? She argued that their well being and future should be put ahead of the elderly who could easily shield a few more months.
And one last point, the damage done to children's learning and children's welfare is far greater for the most disadvantaged children. They have less access to computers, less space (indoor and outside) and (on average) have less focused parents. So the educational attainment gap will get wider still, the more we move to distance learning.
Not saying we should or shouldn't, but this thread seems to have lots of (very valid) arguments for keeping schools closed with little acknowledgement of the massive damage being done when we close schools and/or move learning online. |
I think it's acknowledged by most that closing schools is far from ideal with regards to children's learning and development (I even said there were valid reasons to keep them open in my opening post).
Unfortunately the circumstances have changed now. We have spent all year trying to keep R<1 and that simply isn't possible now without closing the schools (from the modelling). If there is a sudden change of course whereby we aren't trying to keep the R<1 then there will be a lot of people who have lost their jobs or businesses over the last 11 months asking why it mattered to keep R<1 for the rest of the year but it doesn't now.
Added to that is the fact that there are now more patients in hospital with C19 than at any time in the pandemic, things are worse now than they were in April and it's only the improved treatments which are keeping the numbers lower than then.
As you've highlighted, it's a very hard decision to make with valid points on both sides. Your point on inequality in remote learning is absolutely key and needs to be addressed somehow. On the other hand, we have a headteacher in the thread who seems to think closing now and then trying to catch up later is the best course of action.
It's very hard but the government are going to have to make a call one way or the other - dallying isn't helping anyone.
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 14:10 - Dec 29 with 3610 views | SpruceMoose |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 14:03 - Dec 29 by StokieBlue |
I think it's acknowledged by most that closing schools is far from ideal with regards to children's learning and development (I even said there were valid reasons to keep them open in my opening post).
Unfortunately the circumstances have changed now. We have spent all year trying to keep R<1 and that simply isn't possible now without closing the schools (from the modelling). If there is a sudden change of course whereby we aren't trying to keep the R<1 then there will be a lot of people who have lost their jobs or businesses over the last 11 months asking why it mattered to keep R<1 for the rest of the year but it doesn't now.
Added to that is the fact that there are now more patients in hospital with C19 than at any time in the pandemic, things are worse now than they were in April and it's only the improved treatments which are keeping the numbers lower than then.
As you've highlighted, it's a very hard decision to make with valid points on both sides. Your point on inequality in remote learning is absolutely key and needs to be addressed somehow. On the other hand, we have a headteacher in the thread who seems to think closing now and then trying to catch up later is the best course of action.
It's very hard but the government are going to have to make a call one way or the other - dallying isn't helping anyone.
SB |
Regarding hospitals, I have no way of verifying this, but also no reason to doubt it either, but somebody I know who works at Ipswich Hospital said that they are now in the top 5% of hospitals in the country where people are going into hospital without Covid and catching it while they are in there. They said it's all over the wards and staff are dropping like flies.
The whole situation has been badly managed from the start, many people have undermined whatever ineffective attempts have been made to control the spread and now it's a giant mess.
This pandemic has really revealed the ineptitude and inadequacies of many governments, and the sheer stubborn bloody-mindedness and selfishness of many citizens. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 14:47 - Dec 29 with 3548 views | giant_stow |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 13:54 - Dec 29 by bluelagos |
This was debated on the radio earlier and a couple of things jumped out at me.
The damage being done to our children by keeping them away from school. They quoted a UN report that highlighted 14 areas where remote learning is not as good as in classroom learning. It is more than learning suffering, we are damaging are children by keeping them in isolation.
Perhaps the most heart warming comment was from a 69 year old who queried could we not prioritise children for the vaccine rather than the elderly? She argued that their well being and future should be put ahead of the elderly who could easily shield a few more months.
And one last point, the damage done to children's learning and children's welfare is far greater for the most disadvantaged children. They have less access to computers, less space (indoor and outside) and (on average) have less focused parents. So the educational attainment gap will get wider still, the more we move to distance learning.
Not saying we should or shouldn't, but this thread seems to have lots of (very valid) arguments for keeping schools closed with little acknowledgement of the massive damage being done when we close schools and/or move learning online. |
Would agree with all of that 7 or 8 months ago, but I do think things have changed for the worst in the last month or two. This new variant thingy seems to maybe affect kids more - we might be getting to a point of diminishing returns now, where each school hour taught seems to cost more and more people getting ill. |  |
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 15:47 - Dec 29 with 3492 views | CBBlue |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 14:47 - Dec 29 by giant_stow |
Would agree with all of that 7 or 8 months ago, but I do think things have changed for the worst in the last month or two. This new variant thingy seems to maybe affect kids more - we might be getting to a point of diminishing returns now, where each school hour taught seems to cost more and more people getting ill. |
I'm with you there. I absolutely hated home schooling but not half as much as my son hated it and being back at school has had such a positive affect on him. However, with the new strain infecting children more it's just going to spread into the community via family members and then their work colleagues. Also I feel so sorry for the teachers, they are sitting ducks, they can't socially distance in school and don't have PPE to protect them. |  |
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 15:59 - Dec 29 with 3481 views | bluelagos |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 15:47 - Dec 29 by CBBlue |
I'm with you there. I absolutely hated home schooling but not half as much as my son hated it and being back at school has had such a positive affect on him. However, with the new strain infecting children more it's just going to spread into the community via family members and then their work colleagues. Also I feel so sorry for the teachers, they are sitting ducks, they can't socially distance in school and don't have PPE to protect them. |
Was chatting to a teacher yesterday, can't believe that a shop worker (rightly) gets a perspex shield to protect them from the many shoppers yet teachers are expected to teach without any similar protection.
I think the unions have been vocal, but I'd be downing tools tbh if I was teaching, demanding similar protection (or immediate vaccinations) before I put myself at such risk.
Sitting ducks indeed. | |
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 16:09 - Dec 29 with 3452 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 13:56 - Dec 29 by lowhouseblue |
you seem to think that the government's policy is to stop everyone catching covid. that has never been the policy. it has been an impossible target since about february, and in addition the government has decided that the cost of attempting it would be too high (wellbeing, freedom, economics, education etc).the government's policy is to manage covid so as to keep hospitalisations comfortably within the capacity of the nhs. you tighten restrictions as capacity is threatened. you relax them when there is a good amount of capacity in reserve. that doesn't seem unreasonable to me. anything that reduces r without imposing tighter restrictions is then a valuable policy tool - eg asymptomatic testing. the problem is that this policy seems to have been blown out of the water by the new covid strain. [Post edited 29 Dec 2020 13:58]
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It's almost like you haven't seen the hospitalisation and staffing figures! |  |
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 16:10 - Dec 29 with 3450 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 13:21 - Dec 29 by wkj |
The government seem to be in a routine of taking advice retroactively. While the vaccine is a welcome victory in the making, it has also created a very dangerous complacency in some people too. Sadly, I can see the government also acting in a similar fashion.
It is becoming very clear that SAGE has scored a bunch of tap ins during Covid 19 whilst the government are scoring own goals. |
I am not sure SAGE vs Government is a helpful analogy.
SAGE are advising and it is the Government who has initially followed their advice with a mantra of "follow the science" and then chosen to ignore it and then follow it a week or so later.
SAGE are therefore not scoring goals at all. It is simply the Government scoring own goals. |  |
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 16:22 - Dec 29 with 3435 views | lowhouseblue |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 16:09 - Dec 29 by BanksterDebtSlave |
It's almost like you haven't seen the hospitalisation and staffing figures! |
what? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 16:45 - Dec 29 with 3408 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 13:56 - Dec 29 by lowhouseblue |
you seem to think that the government's policy is to stop everyone catching covid. that has never been the policy. it has been an impossible target since about february, and in addition the government has decided that the cost of attempting it would be too high (wellbeing, freedom, economics, education etc).the government's policy is to manage covid so as to keep hospitalisations comfortably within the capacity of the nhs. you tighten restrictions as capacity is threatened. you relax them when there is a good amount of capacity in reserve. that doesn't seem unreasonable to me. anything that reduces r without imposing tighter restrictions is then a valuable policy tool - eg asymptomatic testing. the problem is that this policy seems to have been blown out of the water by the new covid strain. [Post edited 29 Dec 2020 13:58]
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Their thinking about this has been a load of balls though isn't it. Stopping people catching it could have been a target, if they so wished - other countries have managed to do so. Similarly with the supposed impacts - they got that wrong too as it's not a case of virus versus economy/other impacts. Those other impacts get worse the more prevalent the virus. Again, there are plenty of examples around the world.
And yes, the problem with the approach of using the NHS capacity as a threshold for responses has been cruelly exposed by this new mutation. To the point where we now can't cope.
And on the cycle goes. They're pushing back on taking the action needed, so we'll get continued spread and prolongation of all those impacts on the economy, society, etc. Although I suspect they'll have to give in on the schools and close them for longer than they want to. They'll spend the next week complaining about it and then do a u-turn and shut them a day or two before they're due to go back, leaving schools with little time to prepare for online teaching. |  |
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 16:59 - Dec 29 with 3388 views | lowhouseblue |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 16:45 - Dec 29 by Swansea_Blue |
Their thinking about this has been a load of balls though isn't it. Stopping people catching it could have been a target, if they so wished - other countries have managed to do so. Similarly with the supposed impacts - they got that wrong too as it's not a case of virus versus economy/other impacts. Those other impacts get worse the more prevalent the virus. Again, there are plenty of examples around the world.
And yes, the problem with the approach of using the NHS capacity as a threshold for responses has been cruelly exposed by this new mutation. To the point where we now can't cope.
And on the cycle goes. They're pushing back on taking the action needed, so we'll get continued spread and prolongation of all those impacts on the economy, society, etc. Although I suspect they'll have to give in on the schools and close them for longer than they want to. They'll spend the next week complaining about it and then do a u-turn and shut them a day or two before they're due to go back, leaving schools with little time to prepare for online teaching. |
stopping people getting it was never an option. the uk had something like 2,000 'original' outbreaks back in march (can't remember the praise number, but the number of individual cases coming into the uk was something in that range). on that scale and given the uk's geography, mobility and interconnectedness etc it was always going to be a case of managing the virus within practical bounds until a vaccine came along. international comparisons really don't work well - countries differ and the character of the outbreaks differ. comparing the uk to new zealand etc is pretty pointless.
we need a full public enquiry to find out what worked and what didn't. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 17:35 - Dec 29 with 3351 views | chrismakin |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 13:54 - Dec 29 by bluelagos |
This was debated on the radio earlier and a couple of things jumped out at me.
The damage being done to our children by keeping them away from school. They quoted a UN report that highlighted 14 areas where remote learning is not as good as in classroom learning. It is more than learning suffering, we are damaging are children by keeping them in isolation.
Perhaps the most heart warming comment was from a 69 year old who queried could we not prioritise children for the vaccine rather than the elderly? She argued that their well being and future should be put ahead of the elderly who could easily shield a few more months.
And one last point, the damage done to children's learning and children's welfare is far greater for the most disadvantaged children. They have less access to computers, less space (indoor and outside) and (on average) have less focused parents. So the educational attainment gap will get wider still, the more we move to distance learning.
Not saying we should or shouldn't, but this thread seems to have lots of (very valid) arguments for keeping schools closed with little acknowledgement of the massive damage being done when we close schools and/or move learning online. |
It wouldn't make any difference giving the vaccine to the young before the elderly as the Vaccine doesn't stop you getting or transferring the virus which is why we need to get as many elderly and those with health conditions vaccinated first, not to stop the virus transferring but to minimise the health problems associated with Covid |  |
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 18:01 - Dec 29 with 3315 views | mikeybloo88 |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 17:35 - Dec 29 by chrismakin |
It wouldn't make any difference giving the vaccine to the young before the elderly as the Vaccine doesn't stop you getting or transferring the virus which is why we need to get as many elderly and those with health conditions vaccinated first, not to stop the virus transferring but to minimise the health problems associated with Covid |
Exactly this...if we vaccinate the majority of the age groups most likely to be hospitalised/die I.e. over 50s, then it doesn't matter quite so much if it spreads within kids as they aren't adversely affected by it and they'll only pass it on to people who generally won't require hospitalisation. |  | | |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 18:13 - Dec 29 with 3305 views | ITFC_1988 |
I think schools need to be shut, but it’s a difficult one, I work in child protection and the safeguarding implications are quite profound. School is the safe place for many and often the first to spot the signs of safeguarding issues. The first school closures earlier in the year had a big impact on safeguarding generally. Although those already ‘on the radar’ are protected, new cases generally slip through the net.
Also, on SAGE, is their role simply in respect of the virus and keeping the R rate down, or do they consider wider economic, social issues - genuine question. | | | |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 18:38 - Dec 29 with 3282 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 15:59 - Dec 29 by bluelagos |
Was chatting to a teacher yesterday, can't believe that a shop worker (rightly) gets a perspex shield to protect them from the many shoppers yet teachers are expected to teach without any similar protection.
I think the unions have been vocal, but I'd be downing tools tbh if I was teaching, demanding similar protection (or immediate vaccinations) before I put myself at such risk.
Sitting ducks indeed. |
Disclaimer: I work in the education sector
I agree we need to keep schools open as much as we can but the numbers are far too high at the moment. Whilst I understand the arguments that certain kids being off school for a long time can be harmful for their well-being, it's a bit rich when the Government who are saying this have essentially destroyed and disbanded many of the outside support groups and agencies that means every day, teachers have to not just educate students, but also deal with all of the problems students face, be it mental health, depression, problems at home etc. Why? because there literally is nobody else to do so. Even schools now are feeling pastoral services under threat because of lack of funding. Instead of writing articles in the Daily Mail saying how closing schools will mean vulnerable children won't get support if schools are closed, they should examine why class teachers now have to deal with problems that were previously dealt with by specialist agencies and pastoral staff.
Students, who I have to say, by and large are not adhering to regulations anywhere near as much as adults, are going to various schools, sixth form colleges, in pretty large class sizes, without social distancing, without masks or proper testing. Every day me and my colleagues have to front up, be mentally and physically prepared to be in front of scores of people who are probably more likely to have the virus than any other sector of society.
This is because of the lack of precautions and the fact that they are allowed to mix when the rest of us even seeing our neighbour is a crime, with no protection whatsoever.
It isn't allowed in a shop.
It isn't allowed outdoors among 2 groups of adults
It isn't allowed indoors among any groups of adults
It isn't allowed with my next door neighbour.
Why is it allowed in schools with dozens of people? Are they some magical place where the virus cannot go because of a force field around them that God has put in place or something?
What needs to happen is that we need to have a pause on schools and a strict national lockdown similar to what we had in March/April and wait until the pressure on the hospitals is eased and the case numbers go down and then gradually release things the way we did in March and April of last year. The problem with the second lockdown was it was far too short and eased too quickly to really have an impact with far too many exceptions which allowed the virus to bounce back far quicker than if it would have been held for another 2-3 weeks. That's why within weeks you're having lockdown number three like you are now, the second one was useless as it didn't lock down hard or long enough.
When numbers the pressure on hospitals is released to something closer to what it was like after the first lockdown was released when hospitals were seeing few covid patients, we should then look at opening schools and releasing the lockdown slowly. If we get this right and have rolled out enough vaccines, there shouldn't be a need to lock down anymore and we can then make up a couple of weeks of education in the summer and then get back on a more even keel.
Unfortunately as a recent TES article said, this government is profligate with money and with lives, so I don't expect them to do the right thing, but with the amount of teachers leaving the profession. it will be interesting to see what they will do in the future when the teacher shortage that is coming hits and it will all be their own fault. [Post edited 29 Dec 2020 18:54]
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 18:44 - Dec 29 with 3267 views | chrismakin |
i think we should have a nationwide 4 week hard lockdown, get the army involved, get this vaccine out to as many elderly/ill people as possible.
After the lockdown, that's it, we must live with the virus, whilst the vaccines carry on for the midaged/young. | |
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 18:44 - Dec 29 with 3269 views | StokieBlue |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 17:35 - Dec 29 by chrismakin |
It wouldn't make any difference giving the vaccine to the young before the elderly as the Vaccine doesn't stop you getting or transferring the virus which is why we need to get as many elderly and those with health conditions vaccinated first, not to stop the virus transferring but to minimise the health problems associated with Covid |
Just to clarify this point, we simply don't know how much the vaccine prevents transmission but to say it doesn't limit transmission would be misleading at this point.
From the original studies the data seems to show it limits transmission quite a lot but by no means fully. Given this precautions like masks are still required but it should also cut down on transmission a lot.
This is probably because the body is killing off the virus and thus it simply has less chance to get a large enough viral load to be as effective as normal at transmission.
New studies specifically around transmissions are being created and undertaken so hopefully we will know more soon.
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 18:48 - Dec 29 with 3251 views | chrismakin |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 18:44 - Dec 29 by StokieBlue |
Just to clarify this point, we simply don't know how much the vaccine prevents transmission but to say it doesn't limit transmission would be misleading at this point.
From the original studies the data seems to show it limits transmission quite a lot but by no means fully. Given this precautions like masks are still required but it should also cut down on transmission a lot.
This is probably because the body is killing off the virus and thus it simply has less chance to get a large enough viral load to be as effective as normal at transmission.
New studies specifically around transmissions are being created and undertaken so hopefully we will know more soon.
SB |
SB, when it came out, it was confirmed by the governement and Pfizer etc that it doesn't stop transmission at all. It just stops the cells of the virus from doing their worst | |
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 18:51 - Dec 29 with 3243 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 00:26 - Dec 29 by slaughteredskipper |
I’m the headteacher of a primary school. I have contracted Covid as have 13 of my colleagues. All of those colleagues literally have been in lockdown the whole time apart from attending work to support children and let’s face it the economy. How committed do we want to be to knock this virus on the head once and for all? We need to recognise that large numbers of children are carriers. They may not be symptomatic or (thank god) hugely affected but they continue to carry the virus. My daughter is 14 and tested positive with no symptoms whatsoever. Watch the numbers of children testing positive rise when testing in schools starts. Time for the Government to take control of this, move to online learning for a period of time until vaccination is well under way then consider a serious programme of catch-up to ensure the futures of our children. |
Well said, as someone who works in education what you are stating there sounds very familiar to what I have seen and unfortunately the Department of Education, most of which whom have clearly never set foot in a classroom or have any idea of what things are like in reality, versus their theoretical world, are completely deluded to the everyday problems the people who work in schools are having to face at the current time.
There's at least two decent sized towns in Suffolk that do not have a dedicated college/school bus service and instead have to take buses that the general public have to use. We have had adults who are using those buses complain to educational establishments about the conduct of students on those vehicles, gathering at the bus station in Ipswich, gathering outside college, gathering at bus stops etc, with no social distancing and no mask wearing coughing all over each other. The student then get on the bus, run past the driver and then take their masks off and the school then gets it in the ear because of the fact that commuters feel unsafe on those vehicles. We cannot often identify who these pupils are and the bus company has a duty of care to these students so cannot remove them from their vehicles, neither do transport operator staff want to confront these students and put themselves at risk and banning them from buses is not so simple because apparently students have a right to an education, even if they choose to ignore public health guidance.
You then have the situation where even today, I see large groups of kids, coughing all over each other, having raves in parks and gathering at skate parks and other venues again coughing all over each other who are probably driving infection rates because they simply don't care. The Government says that students are no more likely to break the rules than adults are. Unfortunately that's a load of rubbish. The youngsters are simply doing what they please as they know it's highly unlikely to effect them and they couldn't care less if it could be a death sentence to someone else.
But you know the biggest surprise I learnt? As well as children, there are actually something called adults in school? Perhaps someone ought to tell the Government this, because each time the welfare of teachers and staff is mentioned, the DfE simply start talking about what is best for children and that it is best for them to be in school.
The government simply doesn't care if children pass on COVID to a staff member and what happens to them after that. I've had many occasions speaking to colleagues in the staff room saying that they feel like the system doesn't care one bit for their welfare and they feel like cannon fodder who are considered necessary collateral in the whole thing, some of these are fantastic teachers who have changed many lives for the better of the disadvantaged in the local community but now they are seen as expendable. [Post edited 29 Dec 2020 18:56]
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 18:51 - Dec 29 with 3243 views | StokieBlue |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 18:48 - Dec 29 by chrismakin |
SB, when it came out, it was confirmed by the governement and Pfizer etc that it doesn't stop transmission at all. It just stops the cells of the virus from doing their worst |
Do you have a link as the current literature seems to state that we simply don't know but the signs from the data is that it does affect transmission but that studies are ongoing. Same with the Moderna vaccine.
I suspect that if Pfizer said that on release they simply didn't have the data at the time (and still might not) and thus that is the safest statement to make. The original trials weren't designed to look at transmission, just at preventing the virus in the individual.
SB
[Post edited 29 Dec 2020 18:56]
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| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 18:53 - Dec 29 with 3231 views | chrismakin |
| Government being advised that schools should be closed in January on 18:51 - Dec 29 by StokieBlue |
Do you have a link as the current literature seems to state that we simply don't know but the signs from the data is that it does affect transmission but that studies are ongoing. Same with the Moderna vaccine.
I suspect that if Pfizer said that on release they simply didn't have the data at the time (and still might not) and thus that is the safest statement to make. The original trials weren't designed to look at transmission, just at preventing the virus in the individual.
SB
[Post edited 29 Dec 2020 18:56]
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Yeah you're right SB, spot on there, sorry just looked it up and it was the lack of data at the time rather than a definate no. | |
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