| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:37 - Dec 30 with 1368 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:26 - Dec 30 by StokieBlue |
I'm not sure why everyone is citing Blair - he's not really got any expertise in the field and is just following advice from people.
Pfizer themselves have said there has been no testing done on a single dose application and that it won't provide anything like the full protection.
I'm worried this is now becoming more political than scientific - there needs to be data to support any policy adjustment like this and it doesn't seem to exist. That is problematic though as obviously the JCVI also know what they are talking about but they both can't be right.
I can't find any data on the efficacy of a single dose of the Oxford vaccine though - has anyone seen this?
SB [Post edited 30 Dec 2020 10:31]
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My biggest problem is they are gambling with peoples lives.
When the manufacturers of the most proven vaccine say that they have no proof that the vaccine works beyond three weeks after having it without a booster, any Government that goes ahead and does it anyway is taking a TREMENDOUS GAMBLE that could kill scores of people, when it's found out a month or two down the line, those who only had one jab are no better of than those who haven't had any at all.
The economic damage that would be done by the fact we'd have to end up vaccinating people THREE times because the first one is completely out of someones immune system would be massive, and would mean that we would end up with another wave that could have been avoided and we'd simply have paid for huge numbers of doses of the vaccine which were pretty much wasted.
No responsible Government would pursue the strategy that they are currently doing, but as we have known for a long time, this Government is not, and has never been responsible.
All this strategy does is risk kicking the can further down the road. [Post edited 30 Dec 2020 10:38]
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:41 - Dec 30 with 1350 views | StokieBlue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:37 - Dec 30 by DublinBlue84 |
My biggest problem is they are gambling with peoples lives.
When the manufacturers of the most proven vaccine say that they have no proof that the vaccine works beyond three weeks after having it without a booster, any Government that goes ahead and does it anyway is taking a TREMENDOUS GAMBLE that could kill scores of people, when it's found out a month or two down the line, those who only had one jab are no better of than those who haven't had any at all.
The economic damage that would be done by the fact we'd have to end up vaccinating people THREE times because the first one is completely out of someones immune system would be massive, and would mean that we would end up with another wave that could have been avoided and we'd simply have paid for huge numbers of doses of the vaccine which were pretty much wasted.
No responsible Government would pursue the strategy that they are currently doing, but as we have known for a long time, this Government is not, and has never been responsible.
All this strategy does is risk kicking the can further down the road. [Post edited 30 Dec 2020 10:38]
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It's hard though as GB has made a relevant point in the fact they need to follow the advice from the JCVI as well as SAGE.
Hopefully they will make public the data showing the Oxford vaccine works after a single dose (which would be game changing) but as it stands there doesn't seem to be evidence that the Pfizer vaccine will work well after a single dose (although it may, lack of evidence isn't proof).
SB |  | | |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:41 - Dec 30 with 1343 views | WD19 |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:37 - Dec 30 by DublinBlue84 |
My biggest problem is they are gambling with peoples lives.
When the manufacturers of the most proven vaccine say that they have no proof that the vaccine works beyond three weeks after having it without a booster, any Government that goes ahead and does it anyway is taking a TREMENDOUS GAMBLE that could kill scores of people, when it's found out a month or two down the line, those who only had one jab are no better of than those who haven't had any at all.
The economic damage that would be done by the fact we'd have to end up vaccinating people THREE times because the first one is completely out of someones immune system would be massive, and would mean that we would end up with another wave that could have been avoided and we'd simply have paid for huge numbers of doses of the vaccine which were pretty much wasted.
No responsible Government would pursue the strategy that they are currently doing, but as we have known for a long time, this Government is not, and has never been responsible.
All this strategy does is risk kicking the can further down the road. [Post edited 30 Dec 2020 10:38]
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I wondered how long it would be before someone on here moaned about the government buying too much vaccine. Have a prize. |  | | |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:43 - Dec 30 with 1333 views | bluelagos |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:00 - Dec 30 by StokieBlue |
Yes, apologies for the imprecise wording.
Still finishing my morning coffee.
SB |
I'll let you off ;-)
Boris stood up in parliament last week and stated that 1 in 3 of the population are asymptomatic carriers of CV...
Aghhhhh |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:48 - Dec 30 with 1311 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:41 - Dec 30 by WD19 |
I wondered how long it would be before someone on here moaned about the government buying too much vaccine. Have a prize. |
Perhaps have a proper debate than totally misrepresent my point with a rather pathetic strawman? | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:52 - Dec 30 with 1291 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:41 - Dec 30 by StokieBlue |
It's hard though as GB has made a relevant point in the fact they need to follow the advice from the JCVI as well as SAGE.
Hopefully they will make public the data showing the Oxford vaccine works after a single dose (which would be game changing) but as it stands there doesn't seem to be evidence that the Pfizer vaccine will work well after a single dose (although it may, lack of evidence isn't proof).
SB |
The regulator live at the press conference has just said that the second dose should be administered 4- 12 weeks after the first dose.
Takes 22 days for immunity after the first dose. [Post edited 30 Dec 2020 10:53]
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:57 - Dec 30 with 1264 views | GeoffSentence |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:52 - Dec 30 by GlasgowBlue |
The regulator live at the press conference has just said that the second dose should be administered 4- 12 weeks after the first dose.
Takes 22 days for immunity after the first dose. [Post edited 30 Dec 2020 10:53]
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Yes, as was reported on R4 this morning as well.
The chap on R4, unfortunately I cannot recall what his position was so not sure of his expertise, also said that the efficacy improved with a longer gap between doses. |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:58 - Dec 30 with 1263 views | StokieBlue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:52 - Dec 30 by GlasgowBlue |
The regulator live at the press conference has just said that the second dose should be administered 4- 12 weeks after the first dose.
Takes 22 days for immunity after the first dose. [Post edited 30 Dec 2020 10:53]
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"Takes 22 days for immunity after the first dose."
What do you mean? There is no full immunity after the first dose or the second dose would never be required.
SB | | | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:03 - Dec 30 with 1237 views | bracknell_blue |
I.m not usually one to defend the Government, as you know, but I heard some medical experts saying that the immunity conferred by the first jab lasts for 12 weeks, so more people can get the fiosrt jab before rolling our jab number 2. There are 4 million doses available now, and they are being produced at a level of 2 million a week, so it is down to production and supply. They can only do 1 million per week they say (pitifully low) and I would lay good money on this usuelss Government coking it up in some way. |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:04 - Dec 30 with 1223 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:58 - Dec 30 by StokieBlue |
"Takes 22 days for immunity after the first dose."
What do you mean? There is no full immunity after the first dose or the second dose would never be required.
SB |
Doesn't EG's link say that the second dose is for longer term protection?
The regulator press conference is live on Sky News now. They have confirmed that they also recommend a massive roll out of one dose with the other coming 12 weeks later and this is due to the new variant infecting so many people.
edit. One of the regulators has just said that efficacy after 22 days of one dose id 70% and will last 12 weeks until a second dose is needed. He said this data is not available to the public. Trying to type this as he is speaking.
edit edit. During trials some people were given second dose up to 26 weeks. Still some efficacy but robust data showed 4 to 12 weeks is the sweet spot Sweet spot being my words. [Post edited 30 Dec 2020 11:16]
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:21 - Dec 30 with 1160 views | lowhouseblue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:20 - Dec 30 by DublinBlue84 |
Well let the spin end here, Pfizer have now released a statement: "There are no data to demonstrate that protection after the first dose is sustained after 21 days.
"While decisions on alternative dosing regimens reside with health authorities, Pfizer believes it is critical that health authorities conduct surveillance efforts on any alternative schedules implemented and to ensure each recipient is afforded the maximum possible protection, which means immunisation with two doses of the vaccine."
The Government are gambling with peoples lives, seemingly deliberately taking actions which could potentially sabotage the the proven most effective COVID-19 vaccination which is absolutely ludicrous.
Given all the fuss that is being made about the AstraZeneca vaccine, though despite the fact it is less effective, it makes you wonder if the Government want to push this as it's British, rather than relying on one created by those pesky foreigners.
It also means that they can save money by spending less on the more effective but expensive vaccine and not have to bother to buy any extreme cold refrigerators for most of Suffolk, which has meant Ipswich Hospital and pretty much the whole of the surrounding area, has not been able to deploy a single vaccine yet because they don't have equipment to store it. But there's money for dodgy contracts with their friends remember.
This Government are a bunch of charlatans, the whole of the pandemic has shown that they are profligate with money and with lives and their profligacy with these things is far from finished, indeed, it could still have a fair way to go.
I wonder how many politicians will only have one dose? |
so your view is that the government shouldn't follow the advice of the jcvi? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:35 - Dec 30 with 1125 views | mikeybloo88 |
The government is clearly trying to drive most bang for the buck from the Oxford vaccine. One dose seems to prevent the need for hospitalisation in most cases but does not provide full immunity (although it might for some), the second dose takes people up to nearer proper immunity. So the multiple objectives of reducing hospital pressure, maintaining schooling and opening up the economy faster is best achieved by the one dose strategy. It should allow easing of restrictions on the hospitality industry, at least back to Tier 2 levels and as we get to Spring probably allow all pubs to serve drinks outdoors at the very least. Some will continue to get ill, but not to the extent that there is the need to lockdown and prevent any contact. |  | | |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:35 - Dec 30 with 1124 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:21 - Dec 30 by lowhouseblue |
so your view is that the government shouldn't follow the advice of the jcvi? |
I'd tend to believe the people who manufactured the vaccine know the most about it, wouldn't you? | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:36 - Dec 30 with 1121 views | Trequartista |
The efficacy is higher - a scientific not political decision |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:40 - Dec 30 with 1107 views | StokieBlue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:04 - Dec 30 by GlasgowBlue |
Doesn't EG's link say that the second dose is for longer term protection?
The regulator press conference is live on Sky News now. They have confirmed that they also recommend a massive roll out of one dose with the other coming 12 weeks later and this is due to the new variant infecting so many people.
edit. One of the regulators has just said that efficacy after 22 days of one dose id 70% and will last 12 weeks until a second dose is needed. He said this data is not available to the public. Trying to type this as he is speaking.
edit edit. During trials some people were given second dose up to 26 weeks. Still some efficacy but robust data showed 4 to 12 weeks is the sweet spot Sweet spot being my words. [Post edited 30 Dec 2020 11:16]
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Thanks for the info, interesting that the data isn't publicly available hence it doesn't tally with previous data.
This data is specifically for the Oxford vaccine then which is great and will help a lot.
Doesn't the statement say one dose of it Pfizer as well? That would still seem to be contrary to the data.
Great news though.
SB | | | |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:40 - Dec 30 with 1106 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:04 - Dec 30 by GlasgowBlue |
Doesn't EG's link say that the second dose is for longer term protection?
The regulator press conference is live on Sky News now. They have confirmed that they also recommend a massive roll out of one dose with the other coming 12 weeks later and this is due to the new variant infecting so many people.
edit. One of the regulators has just said that efficacy after 22 days of one dose id 70% and will last 12 weeks until a second dose is needed. He said this data is not available to the public. Trying to type this as he is speaking.
edit edit. During trials some people were given second dose up to 26 weeks. Still some efficacy but robust data showed 4 to 12 weeks is the sweet spot Sweet spot being my words. [Post edited 30 Dec 2020 11:16]
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"One of the regulators has just said that efficacy after 22 days of one dose id 70% and will last 12 weeks until a second dose is needed. He said this data is not available to the public."
Whenever someone makes a statement claiming they have evidence, but they are unable to show it, alarm bells should start ringing about the reliability of that evidence.
When you have a group of pathological liars in Government headed by the biggest, compulsive, pathological liar of them all, then it just raises suspicion.
I suspect the evidence is not as strong as they would ideally want, and publishing it for all to see, might expose that, so have to protect themselves. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:42 - Dec 30 with 1087 views | lowhouseblue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:35 - Dec 30 by DublinBlue84 |
I'd tend to believe the people who manufactured the vaccine know the most about it, wouldn't you? |
quite happy with the joint committee on vaccines and immunisation - others have posted the membership. generally in the regulation of medicines independent groups decide policy not the manufacturer. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:43 - Dec 30 with 1082 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:40 - Dec 30 by StokieBlue |
Thanks for the info, interesting that the data isn't publicly available hence it doesn't tally with previous data.
This data is specifically for the Oxford vaccine then which is great and will help a lot.
Doesn't the statement say one dose of it Pfizer as well? That would still seem to be contrary to the data.
Great news though.
SB |
Don't worry, after this Johnson and his little merry band of Brexiteers can show the Oxford vaccine was the most effective, having ignored Pfizers advice on how to admister the Pfizer vaccine and go and waive their little Union Jack flags about how British is best.
Rule Britannia. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:45 - Dec 30 with 1071 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 08:35 - Dec 30 by ElderGrizzly |
Yet none of the trials tested the vaccine at 12 week dose intervals.
So this could make the 2nd dose much less effective.
Also, as it stands, the Astra Zeneca regimen approved is the 62% efficacy one, not the 90% one. |
The regulator has just said they tested up to 26 weeks and that the robust data showed the best results between 4 and 12 weeks. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:47 - Dec 30 with 1057 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:42 - Dec 30 by lowhouseblue |
quite happy with the joint committee on vaccines and immunisation - others have posted the membership. generally in the regulation of medicines independent groups decide policy not the manufacturer. |
Would this be the same regulator that is so sure of it's findings, it's refusing to actually publish the evidence? It's almost like they're hiding something. People who have solid evidence aren't afraid to publish it.
Pfizer have said that there is no proof a vaccine is effective when the does are over three weeks apart. They literally said that this morning. Do you think that they are lying in order to score points over the British Government? If so where's your proof?
I bet you voted for Brexit too. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:53 - Dec 30 with 1026 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:45 - Dec 30 by GlasgowBlue |
The regulator has just said they tested up to 26 weeks and that the robust data showed the best results between 4 and 12 weeks. |
You do realise that anyone can say anything at any time, it doesn't mean it is true or not.
At the end of the day if they have established that what you say is the case they will have solid evidence to back that claim up. The fact that they are now pretty much saying they can't and won't publish it sets alarm bells off for anyone who is able to think for themselves rather than follow their side like sheep, because, you know, they said it so it must be true.
But by all means carry on with your confirmation bias fallacies which have littered this thread. You are the kind of sheep that the likes of Boris would be proud of. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:54 - Dec 30 with 1029 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:40 - Dec 30 by DublinBlue84 |
"One of the regulators has just said that efficacy after 22 days of one dose id 70% and will last 12 weeks until a second dose is needed. He said this data is not available to the public."
Whenever someone makes a statement claiming they have evidence, but they are unable to show it, alarm bells should start ringing about the reliability of that evidence.
When you have a group of pathological liars in Government headed by the biggest, compulsive, pathological liar of them all, then it just raises suspicion.
I suspect the evidence is not as strong as they would ideally want, and publishing it for all to see, might expose that, so have to protect themselves. |
Are you seriously suggesting that the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency and the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation are not giving honest and independent advice, and instead are in cahoots with Johnson's government of pathological liars? | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:55 - Dec 30 with 1027 views | GeoffSentence |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:43 - Dec 30 by DublinBlue84 |
Don't worry, after this Johnson and his little merry band of Brexiteers can show the Oxford vaccine was the most effective, having ignored Pfizers advice on how to admister the Pfizer vaccine and go and waive their little Union Jack flags about how British is best.
Rule Britannia. |
How are they ignoring Pfizer advice? My understanding of it is that the strategy to roll out the vaccine quickly by delaying the second dose applies to the Oxford-AstraZenica vaccine only.
Happy to be corrected if that's wrong. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:55 - Dec 30 with 1024 views | StokieBlue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:47 - Dec 30 by DublinBlue84 |
Would this be the same regulator that is so sure of it's findings, it's refusing to actually publish the evidence? It's almost like they're hiding something. People who have solid evidence aren't afraid to publish it.
Pfizer have said that there is no proof a vaccine is effective when the does are over three weeks apart. They literally said that this morning. Do you think that they are lying in order to score points over the British Government? If so where's your proof?
I bet you voted for Brexit too. |
This seems to be mainly for the Oxford vaccine which is a different type of vaccine so it certainly could (and must given the announcement) provide protection in the way described.
In the end the vast majority of people will get the Oxford vaccine rather than the Pfizer one. I'm assuming the Pfizer one will still be two doses.
SB | | | |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:57 - Dec 30 with 1012 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:53 - Dec 30 by DublinBlue84 |
You do realise that anyone can say anything at any time, it doesn't mean it is true or not.
At the end of the day if they have established that what you say is the case they will have solid evidence to back that claim up. The fact that they are now pretty much saying they can't and won't publish it sets alarm bells off for anyone who is able to think for themselves rather than follow their side like sheep, because, you know, they said it so it must be true.
But by all means carry on with your confirmation bias fallacies which have littered this thread. You are the kind of sheep that the likes of Boris would be proud of. |
So you are now accusing a member of the the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, a man who was on the wards treating covid patients just this weekend, of being a liar.
One of us is certainly displaying confirmation bias. And it's definitely not me. | |
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