| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:57 - Dec 30 with 3032 views | lowhouseblue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:47 - Dec 30 by DublinBlue84 |
Would this be the same regulator that is so sure of it's findings, it's refusing to actually publish the evidence? It's almost like they're hiding something. People who have solid evidence aren't afraid to publish it.
Pfizer have said that there is no proof a vaccine is effective when the does are over three weeks apart. They literally said that this morning. Do you think that they are lying in order to score points over the British Government? If so where's your proof?
I bet you voted for Brexit too. |
ok.... let's relax - take a step back from the keyboard. i voted remain. you seem very angry and just a little bit paranoid. I think we've now found out why. brexit is over. not everything for ever more is going be about brexit. the covid-19 emergency isn't about brexit. come on, deep breaths and then let's all try to move on. [Post edited 30 Dec 2020 11:58]
|  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
|  |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:59 - Dec 30 with 3028 views | J2BLUE |
Four points:
1) The target efficacy for a vaccine was over 50% wasn't it? Therefore if we can achieve that with one dose then it seems a logical thing to do?
2) During the vaccine briefing one of the panel* said the expected efficacy (from stats he said weren't in the public domain) was about 70%
3) You said several times recently that the government want to do 500,000 a day. Now you're saying 1,000,000 per week. I appreciate the official target might be 1,000,000 per week but you clearly have some sort of inside info that we don't to have given us that other figure and most of us know you do a job where you would have access to that kind of info. Matt Hancock said the NHS will give the vaccine out "as fast as it can be produced" so it seems very clear that 1,000,000 a week is setting the bar extremely low so the government can claim a victory when it's given out faster. I do wonder why you cherry pick stats to take the most negative view all of the time?
4) Anyone who had one dose of the Oxford vaccine and went on to get the virus had a mild case. It might well have been small numbers but clearly this strategy has the backing of enough scientists, the university and AstraZeneca (who wouldn't allow their reputation to be put on the line if they weren't confident and would be making it very clear they opposed the strategy) to be given the go ahead.
I'm pretty ecstatic with this latest news. I know it's not risk free but to me this seems the best strategy.
* EDIT - that member of the panel was Wei Shen Lim, the chairman of the joint committee on vaccines and immunisation.
EDIT 2 - The 70% claim has just been repeated by Professor Sarah Gilbert, lead researcher at Oxford University. [Post edited 30 Dec 2020 12:12]
|  |
| |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:04 - Dec 30 with 2992 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:54 - Dec 30 by GlasgowBlue |
Are you seriously suggesting that the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency and the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation are not giving honest and independent advice, and instead are in cahoots with Johnson's government of pathological liars? |
I'm saying that they are coming to conclusions that they for some reason are unwilling to back up with cold, heard evidence which should always arise suspicion. If you've come to a conclusion, you have to have the evidence to lead you to that conclusion.
They seemingly have confidence that one dose followed by another for the Oxford vaccine would give people good enough protection for the short term, but they are not being transparent at all with the data that backs that up. This raises serious questions.
Now they're saying that there are confidentiality issues with publishing these figures, but these issues didn't appear to impact earlier results or other vaccines and I'm not quite so sure about what is confidential about anonymous figures that would not actually identify anyone personally.
I assume it's not straightforward confidentiality issues and is probably commercial confidentiality that they are protecting? [Post edited 30 Dec 2020 12:09]
|  |
| |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:21 - Dec 30 with 2938 views | WestStanderLaLaLa |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:36 - Dec 30 by Trequartista |
The efficacy is higher - a scientific not political decision |
Where are you getting that from? |  |
| |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:25 - Dec 30 with 2911 views | Trequartista |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:21 - Dec 30 by WestStanderLaLaLa |
Where are you getting that from? |
The press conference earlier. Sir Munir Pirmohamed said
"We've come to the decision of an interval of between four to 12 weeks, based on the data that was presented to us.
"Because of the design of the trial, some people got second doses at different time intervals. This allowed an analysis of the effectiveness of the vaccine if you were to be able to delay between four to 12 weeks.
"This showed that the effectiveness was high, up to 80%, when there was a three-month interval between the first and second doses, which is the reason for our recommendation." |  |
| |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:28 - Dec 30 with 2908 views | jas0999 |
Appreciate most on here are against a Tory Government. I don’t like them either
But come on. Credit where it is due ... first country to find a vaccine and rolling it out. Yet, some people are still finding fault. Plenty to moan about, but the vaccine program is not one of them in my opinion. | | | |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:32 - Dec 30 with 2884 views | 26_Paz |
Only question from me is why are they not starting until Monday 4th? It’s been clear approval has been imminent for a few weeks, should have been getting all the logistics etc ready in that time so could begin the second it’s approved. Every day of lockdown kills more businesses. |  |
| |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:34 - Dec 30 with 2868 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:28 - Dec 30 by jas0999 |
Appreciate most on here are against a Tory Government. I don’t like them either
But come on. Credit where it is due ... first country to find a vaccine and rolling it out. Yet, some people are still finding fault. Plenty to moan about, but the vaccine program is not one of them in my opinion. |
The Oxford Vaccine wasn't first, the Pfizer one was ahead of it. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:35 - Dec 30 with 2866 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:32 - Dec 30 by 26_Paz |
Only question from me is why are they not starting until Monday 4th? It’s been clear approval has been imminent for a few weeks, should have been getting all the logistics etc ready in that time so could begin the second it’s approved. Every day of lockdown kills more businesses. |
Some parts of Suffolk are not even going to start vaccinating people until the middle of January as well, which is pretty shocking, those areas really are going to get hit. | |
| |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:35 - Dec 30 with 2865 views | WestStanderLaLaLa |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:25 - Dec 30 by Trequartista |
The press conference earlier. Sir Munir Pirmohamed said
"We've come to the decision of an interval of between four to 12 weeks, based on the data that was presented to us.
"Because of the design of the trial, some people got second doses at different time intervals. This allowed an analysis of the effectiveness of the vaccine if you were to be able to delay between four to 12 weeks.
"This showed that the effectiveness was high, up to 80%, when there was a three-month interval between the first and second doses, which is the reason for our recommendation." |
Cool. Obviously enough data for that. Shame not enough data to approve the half dose, full dose 90%. | |
| |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:35 - Dec 30 with 2864 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:28 - Dec 30 by jas0999 |
Appreciate most on here are against a Tory Government. I don’t like them either
But come on. Credit where it is due ... first country to find a vaccine and rolling it out. Yet, some people are still finding fault. Plenty to moan about, but the vaccine program is not one of them in my opinion. |
I will reserve judgement until we see how the rollout goes, compared with other countries.
Given our government's record in anything needing planning, organisation or logistics, I am not holding my breath. | | | |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:39 - Dec 30 with 2841 views | 26_Paz |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:35 - Dec 30 by DublinBlue84 |
Some parts of Suffolk are not even going to start vaccinating people until the middle of January as well, which is pretty shocking, those areas really are going to get hit. |
Guessing the focus is on areas with higher rates but still, they’ve bought enough to get cracking everywhere | |
| |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:46 - Dec 30 with 2823 views | Trequartista |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:35 - Dec 30 by WestStanderLaLaLa |
Cool. Obviously enough data for that. Shame not enough data to approve the half dose, full dose 90%. |
Yes, although that gives confidence that the regulatory body are not accepting partial data - no over 55s had the half dose full dose regime. | |
| |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:46 - Dec 30 with 2817 views | WD19 |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:35 - Dec 30 by Freddies_Ears |
I will reserve judgement until we see how the rollout goes, compared with other countries.
Given our government's record in anything needing planning, organisation or logistics, I am not holding my breath. |
So far, we seem to be c.3 weeks ahead of most.
....and now we have access to c2m doses a week of vaccine that in practical terms can be distributed much more easily than many. It will be a game changer for many parts of the world.
So, on vaccines, you must be pretty pleased with progress to date? |  | | |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:39 - Dec 30 with 2715 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:46 - Dec 30 by Trequartista |
Yes, although that gives confidence that the regulatory body are not accepting partial data - no over 55s had the half dose full dose regime. |
More questions have now been raised at the data that has been used to justify the 12 week spread, this has just been posted on the Sky News site from their science correspondent.
"The medical regulators say a single dose is around 70% effective, but they haven’t said on what evidence. Nor have they published the data to support their plans that a second dose as much as 12 weeks later increases protection to "up to 80%".
"They say their assessment of the vaccine has been thorough and rigorous. But it sounds a bit vague. And not very transparent. Even the government’s top vaccine adviser admitted AstraZeneca's trials, with different doses and timings in multiple countries, were “not too easy to tease out”.
"What we do know is that the regulators' assessment was based on an analysis of a sub-group of volunteers - that's a smaller group than the one in the trials. A similar sub-group analysis was done by the Oxford/AstraZeneca team that suggested giving the first dose at half-strength increased the effectiveness to 90%.
"However, the medical regulators say the evidence was weak and dismissed the strategy. Yet the same strategy is being used to justify the prolonged interval between doses, even though the clinical trials weren't set up to test that." [Post edited 30 Dec 2020 14:40]
| |
| |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:44 - Dec 30 with 2660 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:46 - Dec 30 by WD19 |
So far, we seem to be c.3 weeks ahead of most.
....and now we have access to c2m doses a week of vaccine that in practical terms can be distributed much more easily than many. It will be a game changer for many parts of the world.
So, on vaccines, you must be pretty pleased with progress to date? |
Not at all. My mum's care home have been promised the vaccine twice already, and received zilch. Now they have been advised it will be a vague "probably January".
As I say, I will believe it when I see it. The organisation of vaccinating 2m people a week will need to be vast. This in a country that needed the help of Polish reservists and French firefighters to carry out the testing of a few thousand lorry drivers last week. | | | |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:46 - Dec 30 with 2653 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:44 - Dec 30 by Freddies_Ears |
Not at all. My mum's care home have been promised the vaccine twice already, and received zilch. Now they have been advised it will be a vague "probably January".
As I say, I will believe it when I see it. The organisation of vaccinating 2m people a week will need to be vast. This in a country that needed the help of Polish reservists and French firefighters to carry out the testing of a few thousand lorry drivers last week. |
It will be a lot, lot easier wit the Oxford vaccine due to the temperature. | |
| |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 16:21 - Dec 30 with 2611 views | StokieBlue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:46 - Dec 30 by J2BLUE |
It will be a lot, lot easier wit the Oxford vaccine due to the temperature. |
Indeed, that is the biggest plus side of the Oxford vaccine. Most likely less efficacy than the mRNA vaccines but much easier to administer.
It's desperately needed as well, 981 deaths and 2430 admitted to hospital in the last 24 hours in the UK.
Hopefully the EU will approve the Oxford vaccine soon as places like German and Italy are looking very bad as well.
SB |  | | |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 16:23 - Dec 30 with 2606 views | giant_stow |
Think you might be missing the wood for the trees. This is clearly an emergency measure which is being taking because infection rates are currently going mental with many hospitals already full. I doubt they'd do this is in an ideal world, but we're basically on the brink of something truly terrible and this a desperate counter measure. Good on them for being flexible.
That same flexibility is why we've already vaccinated 800,000 while the german and French are just getting started.
There's been plenty of rocks to chuck at this govt in this crisis, but this strikes me as sound crisis management. |  |
| |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 19:09 - Dec 30 with 2515 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 08:42 - Dec 30 by GlasgowBlue |
You’re doing it again with the misleading negative thread titles EG. Not sure why you are constantly doing this?
Far from your claim that the government had quietly changed the timeframe against the recommendation, your own link states..
“The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) has advised the priority should be to give as many people in at-risk groups their first dose, rather than providing the required two doses in as short a time as possible”.
“The JCVI’s independent advice is that this approach will maximise the benefits of both vaccines. It will ensure that more at-risk people are able to get meaningful protection from a vaccine in the coming weeks and months, reducing deaths and starting to ease pressure on our NHS.
Seriously, what is there to disagree with on this decision? We have a new variant that is 70% more infectious, which is leading to far more people catching the virus which will ultimately lead to far more deaths. We no longer have the luxury of giving two doses in a short time
As your own link says, the second dose is for longer term protection but in the short term we need to “ vaccinate a greater number of people who are at highest risk, protecting them from the disease and reducing mortality and hospitalisation”. [Post edited 30 Dec 2020 8:42]
|
It’s the constant negativity I don’t like. EG does it a lot in regards to the rays of light at the end of this terribly long tunnel we live in. |  |
| |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 20:02 - Dec 30 with 2487 views | Seablu |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 19:09 - Dec 30 by The_Romford_Blue |
It’s the constant negativity I don’t like. EG does it a lot in regards to the rays of light at the end of this terribly long tunnel we live in. |
You’re a big boy Rommers.
If you’re looking for a comfort blanket, this isn’t the place.
I’m not seeing any overly negative points in these threads, just decent questioning and justifiable scepticism.
This isn’t going away any time soon and it is completely unpredictable.
No one has the answers at the moment however confidently they assert them on here.
Do your research and come to your own informed opinion.
There’s plenty of reputable resources out there that don’t just regurgitate what they’ve heard on sky news. |  | | |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 21:05 - Dec 30 with 2447 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 20:02 - Dec 30 by Seablu |
You’re a big boy Rommers.
If you’re looking for a comfort blanket, this isn’t the place.
I’m not seeing any overly negative points in these threads, just decent questioning and justifiable scepticism.
This isn’t going away any time soon and it is completely unpredictable.
No one has the answers at the moment however confidently they assert them on here.
Do your research and come to your own informed opinion.
There’s plenty of reputable resources out there that don’t just regurgitate what they’ve heard on sky news. |
You’re right, this isn’t the place. I’ve probably posted about 20 times in the last two months on TWTD. Most of those would be on the Warky reports.
There’s enough sadness in the world for me to dwell on without the news and, to a lesser but similar extent, TWTD.
With that in mind, I’m going to keep out now. I’ll stay logged out for the reading of the Warky reports but other than that, I’m offski. Keep well folks. Look after yourselves. Let’s all try and focus on the fact that one day this will all get better and we can maybe live again. | |
| |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 21:35 - Dec 30 with 2409 views | 26_Paz |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 21:05 - Dec 30 by The_Romford_Blue |
You’re right, this isn’t the place. I’ve probably posted about 20 times in the last two months on TWTD. Most of those would be on the Warky reports.
There’s enough sadness in the world for me to dwell on without the news and, to a lesser but similar extent, TWTD.
With that in mind, I’m going to keep out now. I’ll stay logged out for the reading of the Warky reports but other than that, I’m offski. Keep well folks. Look after yourselves. Let’s all try and focus on the fact that one day this will all get better and we can maybe live again. |
Go well, mate, go well | |
| |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 21:35 - Dec 30 with 2408 views | Ryorry |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 21:05 - Dec 30 by The_Romford_Blue |
You’re right, this isn’t the place. I’ve probably posted about 20 times in the last two months on TWTD. Most of those would be on the Warky reports.
There’s enough sadness in the world for me to dwell on without the news and, to a lesser but similar extent, TWTD.
With that in mind, I’m going to keep out now. I’ll stay logged out for the reading of the Warky reports but other than that, I’m offski. Keep well folks. Look after yourselves. Let’s all try and focus on the fact that one day this will all get better and we can maybe live again. |
You do what's right for you Rommy, but I find this is one of the few places I can come for a critical evaluation of what's going on & arrival at the real facts, sometimes actually because of the very negativity you dislike which leads to the wheat getting sorted from the chaff via discussion & sometimes heated argument.
The end result of being properly informed is a positive, if not always palatable, thing.
All best, take care 👠|  |
| |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 22:35 - Dec 30 with 2380 views | ElderGrizzly |
Pfizer boss rather blunt in his assessment today:
“Pfizer said there was 'no data' in its studies to show its vaccine protects against Covid when taken 12 weeks apart.
In a thinly-veiled swipe at the UK, the US firm warned that any 'alternative' dosing regimens should be closely monitored by health authorities.
'Data from the phase three study demonstrated that, although partial protection from the vaccine appears to begin as early as 12 days after the first dose, two doses of the vaccine are required to provide the maximum protection against the disease, a vaccine efficacy of 95 per cent,' Pfizer said in a statement.
'There are no data to demonstrate that protection after the first dose is sustained after 21 days” |  | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
