| Fan about to be hit by excrement 17:49 - Jan 2 with 11789 views | Fixed_It |
Main teaching union advising its members to inform their employers that it is unsafe to return to work this week, and that schools should move to remote learning as the Government was advised by SAGE over a week ago.
The Government are making a right mess of this issue. Again. |  |
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:32 - Jan 2 with 2221 views | SpruceMoose |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:25 - Jan 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
It is almost like that but then when you spell that out, he reigns it back as if his whole philosophy has not been thought through at all. He just has a close allegiance to the party that has those policies. |
Someone said it the other day (can't recall who), politics for Paz is as tribal as supporting a football team. There's no real thought out philosophy behind it, he's picked a side and is going to parrot all the talking points until the end of time. It doesn't matter if they're based on any kind of reality and if he ever comes unstuck when shouting his slogans he just runs away, appeals falsely for civility or strawmans his way out of there.
He will never see it, but he's just as guilty of blind partisanship as the Momentum supporters he so strongly objected to. Anything can be justified and explained away so long as it's your side that's doing it. |  |
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:33 - Jan 2 with 2220 views | jeera |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 21:48 - Jan 2 by vapour_trail |
The last ten years have seen an assault of sorts on public services. An absolute assault, politically driven IMHO.
These inherently hurt the poorer parts of society. Then you get knock on impact on kids (my area of work), for example,in terms of all types of abuse, educational opportunity, health - physical and mental.
Lower taxes doesn’t have to lead to this. It could lead to reduce expenditure in arms development for one, but with politicians who advocate it, it always, always, does. |
"the Royal Society of Medicine said that government austerity decisions in health and social care were likely to have resulted in 30,000 deaths in England and Wales in 2015."
"The rate of increase in life expectancy in England nearly halved between 2010 and 2017, according to research by epidemiology professor Michael Marmot. He commented that it was "entirely possible" that austerity was the cause[81] and said: "If we don't spend appropriately on social care, if we don't spend appropriately on health care, the quality of life will get worse for older people and maybe the length of life, too."
"Between 2010 and 2019 in England and Wales the number of police officers employed was reduced by approximately 20,000. At the same time the measured incidence of murder and robbery increased to their highest levels since the 2000s. Some police leaders have suggested that the reduction in police numbers is the cause, while other analysts have proposed reductions in spending on youth services and social services as the cause."
Wiki, all with citations available:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_government_austerity_programme#:~:t |  |
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:34 - Jan 2 with 2219 views | SpruceMoose |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:30 - Jan 2 by BlueBadger |
Liberterianism is the ultimate sixth-form w@nkers' politics. For all the professions of egalitarianism, stripping down 'big giovernment' ultimately only benefits rich white straight blokes. It's generally preached by t0ssers even more naive and stupid than those who think Jeremy Corbyn was a competent opposition leader. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 23:03]
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I can't blame a 16 year old for having a copy of Atlas Shrugged on their bedside table, but if it's still there when you're older than 30 and the pages are ever increasingly stuck together... Well, there's something very wrong with you. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:37 - Jan 2 with 2203 views | 26_Paz |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:06 - Jan 2 by SpruceMoose |
Why do you believe that? Laying that out would be a start. |
Because I believe too much state involvement results in too much bureaucracy. The money doesn’t get to where it should go because it’s swallows up by a bloated civil service or officials or whoever.
I trust people to know what to do with their money more than the state. As I’ve said lower taxes puts more money in people’s pockets rather than the state making decisions for them. |  |
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:42 - Jan 2 with 2202 views | CrayonKing |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:20 - Jan 2 by BlueBadger |
I LOVE libertarians. Bang against state interference, until it comes to women, non-white people, poor people, foreigners and LGBTQ people. Then they're BANG in favour of it.
See also: Rees-Mogg, J. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 22:27]
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To be fair it did get completely hijacked by the tea party and turned into something very-different from how it was in those idealistic 'digital liberty' dot com days.
Not defending it as such, because as a political philosophy it doesn't stand up to scrutiny, but once upon a time there were genuine libertarians who believed in keeping the state out of *everybody's* business, not the modern "keep out of MY business, but go harass those people I don't like instead" kind. |  | | |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:44 - Jan 2 with 2189 views | SpruceMoose |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:37 - Jan 2 by 26_Paz |
Because I believe too much state involvement results in too much bureaucracy. The money doesn’t get to where it should go because it’s swallows up by a bloated civil service or officials or whoever.
I trust people to know what to do with their money more than the state. As I’ve said lower taxes puts more money in people’s pockets rather than the state making decisions for them. |
So just slogans then? | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:52 - Jan 2 with 2173 views | BlueBadger |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:42 - Jan 2 by CrayonKing |
To be fair it did get completely hijacked by the tea party and turned into something very-different from how it was in those idealistic 'digital liberty' dot com days.
Not defending it as such, because as a political philosophy it doesn't stand up to scrutiny, but once upon a time there were genuine libertarians who believed in keeping the state out of *everybody's* business, not the modern "keep out of MY business, but go harass those people I don't like instead" kind. |
At absolute best, it's a philosophy for desperately naive Middle Class White Boys who think that everyone starts off with the same advantages they do, mostly it's an elaborate excuse for vile t0ssers seeking to justify their hypocrisy, bigotry and selfishness. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 23:08]
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:58 - Jan 2 with 2151 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:37 - Jan 2 by 26_Paz |
Because I believe too much state involvement results in too much bureaucracy. The money doesn’t get to where it should go because it’s swallows up by a bloated civil service or officials or whoever.
I trust people to know what to do with their money more than the state. As I’ve said lower taxes puts more money in people’s pockets rather than the state making decisions for them. |
So you’re effectively saying you trust individuals to fund the elements needed by a successfully functioning state: emergency services, councils, NHS, schools, civil service, judiciary, etc? If so, I think you’re overestimating the philanthropic tendencies of the average member of the public! |  |
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 23:05 - Jan 2 with 2132 views | SpruceMoose |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:58 - Jan 2 by Swansea_Blue |
So you’re effectively saying you trust individuals to fund the elements needed by a successfully functioning state: emergency services, councils, NHS, schools, civil service, judiciary, etc? If so, I think you’re overestimating the philanthropic tendencies of the average member of the public! |
I think he means he trusts himself to not pay for the things he doesn't want to fund. Problem is that it's a little too late to try and fund a fire service once your house is on fire.
Therein lies the selfish and juvenile thought process behind libertarianism.
But don't worry. The private sector will efficiently pick up the slack or something. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 23:06]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 23:11 - Jan 2 with 2121 views | BlueBadger |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 21:47 - Jan 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
You can vote for Brexit without necessarily wanting either of those things ....you may just have issues with who gets to pull the levers and whose interests they pull them for. |
Not all Brexiteers were thick, paranoid and racist, to be fair. Some of them were just paranoid and thick. | |
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 23:15 - Jan 2 with 2105 views | vapour_trail |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:37 - Jan 2 by 26_Paz |
Because I believe too much state involvement results in too much bureaucracy. The money doesn’t get to where it should go because it’s swallows up by a bloated civil service or officials or whoever.
I trust people to know what to do with their money more than the state. As I’ve said lower taxes puts more money in people’s pockets rather than the state making decisions for them. |
It’s funny, the older you get, the theory goes the more you drift to the right.
It be found as I’ve got older, the less I trust people. I think too many people are too thick.
So on the one hand I favour more state intervention. Then on another I don’t trust the people to elect what i consider, the right state. It could be me that’s too thick of course.
I don’t trust democracy in the format we have it. I think we’re broken. |  |
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 23:17 - Jan 2 with 2093 views | CrayonKing |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:52 - Jan 2 by BlueBadger |
At absolute best, it's a philosophy for desperately naive Middle Class White Boys who think that everyone starts off with the same advantages they do, mostly it's an elaborate excuse for vile t0ssers seeking to justify their hypocrisy, bigotry and selfishness. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 23:08]
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First part: guilty as charged. Although I did grow out of it when I realised the whole world didn't revolve around me.
Second part: it certainly wasn't like that back then, but that does seem to be what it's developed into more recently. Most people nowadays who claim to be libertarians are anything but, and the thought of ukip pretending to be is vomit-inducing. Most people I know who flirted with it back then are very much in the lefty camp now, just because the hijacking of the social side by the right/far-right has pushed them that way. Although they would probably have grown out of it anyway ;)
Edit: Not sure how I ended up defending libertarrianism when it's clearly nonsense. Just trying to point out that some of the ideas can be quite enticing without needing to be a racist idiot. Thinking that government should stay out of your business isn't inherently racist, even though the principle has been hijacked by racists in recent years. Back in my day it was mostly about lefty stuff like legalising weed! [Post edited 3 Jan 2021 0:45]
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 02:42 - Jan 3 with 1991 views | CrayonKing |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 23:15 - Jan 2 by vapour_trail |
It’s funny, the older you get, the theory goes the more you drift to the right.
It be found as I’ve got older, the less I trust people. I think too many people are too thick.
So on the one hand I favour more state intervention. Then on another I don’t trust the people to elect what i consider, the right state. It could be me that’s too thick of course.
I don’t trust democracy in the format we have it. I think we’re broken. |
yea, this pretty much sums it up
when it comes down to it the best possible form of government at any particular time is pretty nuanced, and they're all flawed in one way way or another (some more than others!) so expecting the entire population to have a valid view on how they should be governed, and to come to the "correct" conclusion each time seems pretty ridiculous. Especially when they only have two to choose from.
I'm pretty sure if you took a poll of how political science professors voted you'd get a mix of answers, and these are people who spend their lives studying and discussing this stuff so to act like there's only one true answer and everyone else is an idiot or an asshole is overly-simplistic at best.
That's not to say people don't vote for idiotic or asshole reasons. I'm pretty sure a huge chunk of the population are idiots, but then that probably makes me an asshole for thinking that...
Edit: Apologies to the original thread starter. Seem to have gone off on one and thoroughly hijacked this thread! [Post edited 3 Jan 2021 2:51]
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 03:27 - Jan 3 with 1970 views | TractorWood |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 21:00 - Jan 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Have you answered how you explain that wanting unregulated free markets and a small state don't equate to looking after the rich at the expense of the poor yet then? Because if you have I have missed it.
If you have low taxes and low investment in public services, the rich can afford whatever they need. The poor either rely on charity or go without. That is what has been happening ever since this party took control of the country. They excused it with the term "austerity" initially but just look at how readily they hand money out to their mates - and not with Covid. Brexit preparations saw a ferry company that didn't exist being awarded a big contract. This, in addition to its ineptness, is the most corrupt British Government ever.
I accept that you agree with a small state but at least be honest that it protects the rich at the expense of the poor. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 21:05]
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I agree with everything except tax rates aren't even low for the middle classes. They are only low for rich entrepreneurs. EIS relief, entrepreneurs relief, a hugely lower capital gains rate etc. |  |
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 12:01 - Jan 3 with 1832 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:30 - Jan 2 by BlueBadger |
Liberterianism is the ultimate sixth-form w@nkers' politics. For all the professions of egalitarianism, stripping down 'big giovernment' ultimately only benefits rich white straight blokes. It's generally preached by t0ssers even more naive and stupid than those who think Jeremy Corbyn was a competent opposition leader. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 23:03]
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Libertarianism is free market capitalists attempt to claim all the cool 6th form @narchists....Darwinist individualism over cooperation and syndicalism.
They have some good ideas at the edges but a core of sh1t.
Edit....thinking about it though that sh1tty core is pretty much the same one that mainstream political parties increasingly pander to as well. [Post edited 3 Jan 2021 12:04]
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 12:17 - Jan 3 with 1814 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:44 - Jan 2 by SpruceMoose |
So just slogans then? |
You don't think the first paragraph contains any truths whatsoever! | |
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 12:18 - Jan 3 with 1811 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:52 - Jan 2 by BlueBadger |
At absolute best, it's a philosophy for desperately naive Middle Class White Boys who think that everyone starts off with the same advantages they do, mostly it's an elaborate excuse for vile t0ssers seeking to justify their hypocrisy, bigotry and selfishness. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 23:08]
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I think you will find it is very working class in America.
Much like Brexit. [Post edited 3 Jan 2021 12:21]
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 12:20 - Jan 3 with 1809 views | footers |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 12:17 - Jan 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
You don't think the first paragraph contains any truths whatsoever! |
You either have bureaucracy that's handled by the public sector or prviate companies create their own bureacracy to generate business. We have to have some form of bureaucracy, so to my mind it's better to have it in the public sector rather than the private. But it is true that bureacracy does beget bureacracy in many cases; how we minimise that is another question. |  |
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 12:20 - Jan 3 with 1808 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 23:11 - Jan 2 by BlueBadger |
Not all Brexiteers were thick, paranoid and racist, to be fair. Some of them were just paranoid and thick. |
Par for the course from you there BB. | |
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 12:25 - Jan 3 with 1795 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 02:42 - Jan 3 by CrayonKing |
yea, this pretty much sums it up
when it comes down to it the best possible form of government at any particular time is pretty nuanced, and they're all flawed in one way way or another (some more than others!) so expecting the entire population to have a valid view on how they should be governed, and to come to the "correct" conclusion each time seems pretty ridiculous. Especially when they only have two to choose from.
I'm pretty sure if you took a poll of how political science professors voted you'd get a mix of answers, and these are people who spend their lives studying and discussing this stuff so to act like there's only one true answer and everyone else is an idiot or an asshole is overly-simplistic at best.
That's not to say people don't vote for idiotic or asshole reasons. I'm pretty sure a huge chunk of the population are idiots, but then that probably makes me an asshole for thinking that...
Edit: Apologies to the original thread starter. Seem to have gone off on one and thoroughly hijacked this thread! [Post edited 3 Jan 2021 2:51]
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I find it bizarre that the usual few on here with pretences of radicalism are the ones that cling hardest to the institutions of power that repeatedly fail them. But I'm just paranoid and thick....or something! [Post edited 3 Jan 2021 12:26]
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 12:28 - Jan 3 with 1785 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 12:20 - Jan 3 by footers |
You either have bureaucracy that's handled by the public sector or prviate companies create their own bureacracy to generate business. We have to have some form of bureaucracy, so to my mind it's better to have it in the public sector rather than the private. But it is true that bureacracy does beget bureacracy in many cases; how we minimise that is another question. |
All true but look at the history our beaurocracy has been shaped by....knock it down and start again dear boy...pitchfork in the post! | |
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 12:33 - Jan 3 with 1775 views | BlueBadger |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 12:18 - Jan 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I think you will find it is very working class in America.
Much like Brexit. [Post edited 3 Jan 2021 12:21]
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Well, there's a lot of stupid, racist and/or paranoid people there too. | |
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 14:33 - Jan 3 with 1699 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 22:37 - Jan 2 by 26_Paz |
Because I believe too much state involvement results in too much bureaucracy. The money doesn’t get to where it should go because it’s swallows up by a bloated civil service or officials or whoever.
I trust people to know what to do with their money more than the state. As I’ve said lower taxes puts more money in people’s pockets rather than the state making decisions for them. |
And you still cannot answer which services you want to decimate in order to fund your lower wage earner tax cuts whilst keeping the higher earners the same.
Your desire for a small state is to punish the poor and reward the rich. Your trickle-down economics have been proven not to work as per the article I shared where you couldn't be bothered to Google. |  |
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| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 14:39 - Jan 3 with 1683 views | 26_Paz |
| Fan about to be hit by excrement on 14:33 - Jan 3 by Nthsuffolkblue |
And you still cannot answer which services you want to decimate in order to fund your lower wage earner tax cuts whilst keeping the higher earners the same.
Your desire for a small state is to punish the poor and reward the rich. Your trickle-down economics have been proven not to work as per the article I shared where you couldn't be bothered to Google. |
The article you shared is about the impacts of lowering taxes for the very rich, which is not what I have suggested I would like to see. It is, therefore, completely irrelevant to the conversation. | |
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