| Ian Lavery MP 13:32 - Jan 5 with 2674 views | itfcjoe |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:33 - Jan 5 with 714 views | homer_123 |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:29 - Jan 5 by itfcjoe |
I had a look, and looks like it is something just leaked to Guido so doubt one will be out there unless Lavery thinks it can clear him and he releases it |
It's on his FB page - took me 2 secs to find it. |  |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:35 - Jan 5 with 708 views | LankHenners |
Does anyone know if Homer123 found the video? Be nice if he could post it several times across individual replies to let us know. |  |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:35 - Jan 5 with 700 views | homer_123 |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:35 - Jan 5 by LankHenners |
Does anyone know if Homer123 found the video? Be nice if he could post it several times across individual replies to let us know. |
Ian Lavery MP by homer_123 5 Jan 2021 14:31You can view the whole piece here:
https://www.facebook.com/IanLaveryMP/
3rd Jan - the video is on his FB page in full....from about 4 mins in.
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:46 - Jan 5 with 667 views | GlasgowBlue |
See also Clive Lewis.
People in positions of responsibility undermining trust in the vaccines whilst we are in the middle of a pandemic. [Post edited 5 Jan 2021 14:46]
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:50 - Jan 5 with 656 views | DanTheMan |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:46 - Jan 5 by GlasgowBlue |
See also Clive Lewis.
People in positions of responsibility undermining trust in the vaccines whilst we are in the middle of a pandemic. [Post edited 5 Jan 2021 14:46]
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Hang on, that's a bit different.
For the first part, he's not being at all anti-vax there at all, he's criticising a decision that even the manufacturers said they had not tested, in the case of BioNTech as I believe the original decision to spread the dosages covered both vaccines.
https://www.ft.com/content/12b887b0-accd-4990-a2f1-689193d0b398
The bleach thing is obviously a joke. |  |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:50 - Jan 5 with 650 views | davblue |
| Ian Lavery MP on 13:54 - Jan 5 by GavTWTD |
I don't agree with everything he's said, but I have concerns about the vaccine. Doesn't everyone? I will absolutely take the vaccine as soon as I can, but I do fear there's not been as much testing as other drugs.
Not everything is binary. |
My sister had the Oxford vaccine in the trial period, she’s been ok so far but appreciate the longer term concerns. |  | | |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:55 - Jan 5 with 622 views | StokieBlue |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:31 - Jan 5 by DanTheMan |
Think I've found the video, although not where the clip is.
https://fb.watch/2Qcon6H2tg/
EDIT: Not found the first part about trusting the vaccine but second slip is just over 4 minutes in.
EDIT 2: The first part is afterwards, around 5 minutes. There isn't too much additional context but his justification is based around what he perceives as the changes they made to do with the dosages and the spacing between them. [Post edited 5 Jan 2021 14:45]
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So:
1) From the context I think he meant to say he had no confidence in the vaccine rollout and just forgot the last word which changes the context entirely and is actually a perfectly valid point to make if that is what he is trying to say.
2) All the stuff about testing is inaccurate, unhelpful and dangerous. He clearly hasn't looked much into how stage 3 trials are usually conducted and putting this type of stuff out there both raises anxiety and worry in the general public and gives free ammunition to the anti-vax crowd.
SB |  | | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:56 - Jan 5 with 618 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:50 - Jan 5 by DanTheMan |
Hang on, that's a bit different.
For the first part, he's not being at all anti-vax there at all, he's criticising a decision that even the manufacturers said they had not tested, in the case of BioNTech as I believe the original decision to spread the dosages covered both vaccines.
https://www.ft.com/content/12b887b0-accd-4990-a2f1-689193d0b398
The bleach thing is obviously a joke. |
He linked the discredited New York Times story with the misleading headline "Britain Opts for Mix & Match Vaccinations, Confounding Experts".
It's scaremongering over a decision made by JCVI and supported by the Chief Medical officers of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:57 - Jan 5 with 610 views | homer_123 |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:46 - Jan 5 by GlasgowBlue |
See also Clive Lewis.
People in positions of responsibility undermining trust in the vaccines whilst we are in the middle of a pandemic. [Post edited 5 Jan 2021 14:46]
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Am I wrong in thinking that the Pfizer vaccine was 'approved' by our regulator based on a two-dose approach?
I think the JCVI announced that the reason for the single dose is about vaccinating as many as possible in the 'short term' whilst still looking to get a second dose in within 12 weeks (basically looking at the most vulnerable groups).
No doubt this is mainly due to the new variant being more transmissible and the rapid increases in cases and hospitalisations but also, possibly, due to the noted manufacturing delays we saw at the beginning of December?
I appreciate the AZ/ Ox vaccine has been approved and rolled out on an initial single dose with a second after 4 to 12 weeks. [Post edited 5 Jan 2021 14:58]
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:57 - Jan 5 with 600 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:11 - Jan 5 by itfcjoe |
No it doesn't help, but these are the exact points that Starmer has come out and said need to be stopped, and that the Govt are trying not to hear.
It's the 'Random Town Remembers' Facebook page full of racism, conspiracy, Brexit propoganda and lies points of it has been rushed through and hasn't been checked properly etc that permeates with the gullible who believe everything on there.
My cleaner is one of those who reads everything from there, "my friends daughter is a nurse and she has said she won't take one on Facebook, and I've read some bits about them being dangerous as testing not done, bla, bla, bla"
An MP should not be saying it, full stop, whatever the context |
Random Town Remembers and the Guido Fawkes website seem to have a lot in common.
Lavery should never have been allowed to become an MP after what he did at the NUM. |  | | |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:58 - Jan 5 with 586 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:31 - Jan 5 by DanTheMan |
Think I've found the video, although not where the clip is.
https://fb.watch/2Qcon6H2tg/
EDIT: Not found the first part about trusting the vaccine but second slip is just over 4 minutes in.
EDIT 2: The first part is afterwards, around 5 minutes. There isn't too much additional context but his justification is based around what he perceives as the changes they made to do with the dosages and the spacing between them. [Post edited 5 Jan 2021 14:45]
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Cheers.
Was just watching it from the original source and seems to be covered from 5 minutes on.
https://www.pscp.tv/w/1YpKkzjWqBrxj?t=26s
Worth a watch to see how the Guido version is the worst reading and gives the largely wrong context. As expected he’s saying that the government’s record and bungling re:PPE and Test and Trace would create a lack of confidence in the vaccine.
I disagree with him re: rapid trials as that’s within the context of a pandemic, global and independent of the government (the mixed message on the second dose apart) but it’s nothing like the anti-vaxxer rant that Guido have packaged.
Don’t get played, kids. |  |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 14:59 - Jan 5 with 572 views | homer_123 |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:50 - Jan 5 by davblue |
My sister had the Oxford vaccine in the trial period, she’s been ok so far but appreciate the longer term concerns. |
That's Phase 4 though isn't it. | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 15:02 - Jan 5 with 558 views | Darth_Koont |
Cheers homer.
See above. | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 15:02 - Jan 5 with 560 views | DanTheMan |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:55 - Jan 5 by StokieBlue |
So:
1) From the context I think he meant to say he had no confidence in the vaccine rollout and just forgot the last word which changes the context entirely and is actually a perfectly valid point to make if that is what he is trying to say.
2) All the stuff about testing is inaccurate, unhelpful and dangerous. He clearly hasn't looked much into how stage 3 trials are usually conducted and putting this type of stuff out there both raises anxiety and worry in the general public and gives free ammunition to the anti-vax crowd.
SB |
I will say in regards to the testing thing the Government and whatever other public bodies do need to get better at explaining how this managed to get created and authorised so quickly to the general public because I've heard so many people expressing very similar sentiments who aren't into conspiracy theories or anything like that. | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 15:05 - Jan 5 with 540 views | homer_123 |
| Ian Lavery MP on 15:02 - Jan 5 by DanTheMan |
I will say in regards to the testing thing the Government and whatever other public bodies do need to get better at explaining how this managed to get created and authorised so quickly to the general public because I've heard so many people expressing very similar sentiments who aren't into conspiracy theories or anything like that. |
I think it is in part due to the fact that the platform (EDIT: basis) for the vaccines was already in place and therefore it was more about tweaking than creating from scratch:
"Instead, both the Oxford University/AstraZeneca and Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines were developed using different “platform technologies” that involve slotting genetic material from the virus into a tried and tested delivery package. Once introduced into the human body this genetic material is used by the protein-making machinery in our cells to churn out the coronavirus “spike protein”, triggering an immune response."
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/dec/08/how-has-a-covid-vaccine-been-dev
Add funding and worldwide collaboration into the mix as well. [Post edited 5 Jan 2021 15:07]
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| Ian Lavery MP on 15:09 - Jan 5 with 519 views | DanTheMan |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:56 - Jan 5 by GlasgowBlue |
He linked the discredited New York Times story with the misleading headline "Britain Opts for Mix & Match Vaccinations, Confounding Experts".
It's scaremongering over a decision made by JCVI and supported by the Chief Medical officers of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. |
Yes it has been partially discredited however from what I read of the linked source they were not entirely wrong either about the mix and match or the dosage lengthening.
If the course is interrupted or delayed, it should be resumed using the same vaccine but the first dose should not be repeated. There is no evidence on the interchangeability of the COVID-19 vaccines although studies are underway. Therefore, every effort should be made to determine which vaccine the individual received and to complete with the same vaccine.
For individuals who started the schedule and who attend for vaccination at a site where
the same vaccine is not available, or if the first product received is unknown, it is
reasonable to offer one dose of the locally available product to complete the schedule. This option is preferred if the individual is likely to be at immediate high risk or is considered unlikely to attend again. In these circumstances, as both the vaccines are based on the spike protein, it is likely the second dose will help to boost the response to the first dose. For this reason, until additional information becomes available, further doses would not then be required.
I don't agree that this is scaremongering. If he was saying the vaccines in general were not going to work then that is different but in this case the article is sourced and there are obviously counter view points to this from people who aren't off their rocker.
And that's without getting into the dosage changes. As I'm not a virologist or immunologist I cannot say for certain the potential ramifications of what they are proposing. But I think painting this as he's scaremongering and completely wrong is, well, wrong. | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 15:09 - Jan 5 with 514 views | DanTheMan |
| Ian Lavery MP on 15:05 - Jan 5 by homer_123 |
I think it is in part due to the fact that the platform (EDIT: basis) for the vaccines was already in place and therefore it was more about tweaking than creating from scratch:
"Instead, both the Oxford University/AstraZeneca and Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines were developed using different “platform technologies” that involve slotting genetic material from the virus into a tried and tested delivery package. Once introduced into the human body this genetic material is used by the protein-making machinery in our cells to churn out the coronavirus “spike protein”, triggering an immune response."
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/dec/08/how-has-a-covid-vaccine-been-dev
Add funding and worldwide collaboration into the mix as well. [Post edited 5 Jan 2021 15:07]
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Oh absolutely, which I have tried my best to explain to people when I've talked to them but it's how prevalent the viewpoint is among every day people that concerns me. | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 15:11 - Jan 5 with 500 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:29 - Jan 5 by itfcjoe |
I had a look, and looks like it is something just leaked to Guido so doubt one will be out there unless Lavery thinks it can clear him and he releases it |
Probably need to try a bit harder. And certainly never ever take Guido at face value or as a source on their own. | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 15:11 - Jan 5 with 500 views | eireblue |
| Ian Lavery MP on 15:02 - Jan 5 by DanTheMan |
I will say in regards to the testing thing the Government and whatever other public bodies do need to get better at explaining how this managed to get created and authorised so quickly to the general public because I've heard so many people expressing very similar sentiments who aren't into conspiracy theories or anything like that. |
Yep, sort of underlies the obvious reason why it is important to not overpromise, with additional bluster, rhetoric, and “boosterism”, then repeatedly under deliver, with equal amounts of bluster.
The words reap and sow spring to mind, unfortunately the sow-er is not subjected to the effects of the reaping.
As an aside, is Matt Hancock still implying it will all be fine by spring. |  | | |
| Ian Lavery MP on 15:14 - Jan 5 with 482 views | homer_123 |
| Ian Lavery MP on 15:09 - Jan 5 by DanTheMan |
Oh absolutely, which I have tried my best to explain to people when I've talked to them but it's how prevalent the viewpoint is among every day people that concerns me. |
Oh agreed.
I would also point out that there is absolutely nothing wrong at all about asking or questioning if these vaccines as safe.
It's right to ask and question how this has been achieved to quickly and if so is it still safe. Nothing wrong in asking questions or having doubts at all. | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 15:17 - Jan 5 with 469 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:57 - Jan 5 by homer_123 |
Am I wrong in thinking that the Pfizer vaccine was 'approved' by our regulator based on a two-dose approach?
I think the JCVI announced that the reason for the single dose is about vaccinating as many as possible in the 'short term' whilst still looking to get a second dose in within 12 weeks (basically looking at the most vulnerable groups).
No doubt this is mainly due to the new variant being more transmissible and the rapid increases in cases and hospitalisations but also, possibly, due to the noted manufacturing delays we saw at the beginning of December?
I appreciate the AZ/ Ox vaccine has been approved and rolled out on an initial single dose with a second after 4 to 12 weeks. [Post edited 5 Jan 2021 14:58]
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Yes. It's all explained very well in a joint letter from the Chief Medical Officers of all the UK devolved nations.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/letter-to-the-profession-from-the-uk- | |
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| Ian Lavery MP on 15:31 - Jan 5 with 428 views | factual_blue |
| Ian Lavery MP on 14:29 - Jan 5 by tractordownsouth |
It's Guido so would need to take the editing with a pinch of salt and it's good he said he wants people to take it but stating he has concerns over the vaccine is deeply irresponsibile. |
Guido - the go-to site for irresponsible, ignorant libertarian cranks. |  |
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