| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. 08:09 - Jan 11 with 3030 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
...post worker with a shielding partner who in the first lock down was allowed to self isolate asked why he now had to work. The question went unanswered but apparently travelling more than 5 miles for a remote walk is the real concern! |  |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:17 - Jan 11 with 1790 views | bluelagos |
So they are going down the "It's the rule breakers fault" route?
Nothing to do with the 90% of public interactions that are work related then...
Great, expect the public scorn we got in lockdown 1 to come piling down once again on anyone going for a walk, sitting in a park etc. |  |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:20 - Jan 11 with 1769 views | Guthrum |
Because the answer to the question is "the Treasury currently won't fund it", which is a political matter, not a medical one. |  |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:23 - Jan 11 with 1756 views | IpswichKnight |
Zoe app is showing infections per 100k slowing and now decreasing they are saying the peak was before new year. |  | | |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:34 - Jan 11 with 1703 views | StokieBlue |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:23 - Jan 11 by IpswichKnight |
Zoe app is showing infections per 100k slowing and now decreasing they are saying the peak was before new year. |
The NHS and the official numbers show a different story though and most experts think the peak hasn't been reached yet. The Zoe apps data is nice but it isn't perfect.
Cases of the new variant are rising outside London and also worth noting that the number that really needs to be watched it the hospitalisations.
SB [Post edited 11 Jan 2021 8:37]
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:34 - Jan 11 with 1698 views | Guthrum |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:23 - Jan 11 by IpswichKnight |
Zoe app is showing infections per 100k slowing and now decreasing they are saying the peak was before new year. |
Probably too soon to say it has peaked, especially with new variants in the offing. Plus rates may be falling in some areas (e.g the North West) and climbing in others (e.g. London), which would give an aggregate curve-levelling of the national rate. | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:44 - Jan 11 with 1660 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:17 - Jan 11 by bluelagos |
So they are going down the "It's the rule breakers fault" route?
Nothing to do with the 90% of public interactions that are work related then...
Great, expect the public scorn we got in lockdown 1 to come piling down once again on anyone going for a walk, sitting in a park etc. |
Someone just directly asked him the Costa and other 'essential' shop question....his reply was that ministers around Europe had to make decisions!!
He didn't say he agreed with them....on BBC news now. | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:45 - Jan 11 with 1651 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:20 - Jan 11 by Guthrum |
Because the answer to the question is "the Treasury currently won't fund it", which is a political matter, not a medical one. |
Exactly..he is having to be very political/diplomatic in his partial answers! | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:48 - Jan 11 with 1624 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:17 - Jan 11 by bluelagos |
So they are going down the "It's the rule breakers fault" route?
Nothing to do with the 90% of public interactions that are work related then...
Great, expect the public scorn we got in lockdown 1 to come piling down once again on anyone going for a walk, sitting in a park etc. |
Don't walk on a remote beach but do pop to the factory shop ffs! | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:48 - Jan 11 with 1622 views | WD19 |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:20 - Jan 11 by Guthrum |
Because the answer to the question is "the Treasury currently won't fund it", which is a political matter, not a medical one. |
Except they will, via furlough.
In the example given the individual could be placed in furlough and receive 80% of their pay from the treasury for staying at home all day. |  | | |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:51 - Jan 11 with 1602 views | StokieBlue |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:44 - Jan 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Someone just directly asked him the Costa and other 'essential' shop question....his reply was that ministers around Europe had to make decisions!!
He didn't say he agreed with them....on BBC news now. |
What is he supposed to say?
That answer is correct, it's not for him to say what shops are essential, that is a political decision.
SB | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:52 - Jan 11 with 1605 views | bluelagos |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:44 - Jan 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Someone just directly asked him the Costa and other 'essential' shop question....his reply was that ministers around Europe had to make decisions!!
He didn't say he agreed with them....on BBC news now. |
They are developing their narrative. It is the "lack of compliance" and people fall for it.
That the roads etc. are busier now than in April isn't due to a lack of compliance. It is due to the fact that in April lots of businesses closed that didn't need to. Now they are choosing to open. All fully within the law.
That isn't a lack of compliance. It maybe that we need to tighten up the rules but let's not pretend there is widespread rule breaking. It simply isn't true. | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:53 - Jan 11 with 1593 views | Guthrum |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:45 - Jan 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Exactly..he is having to be very political/diplomatic in his partial answers! |
If he publicly came out with the full-on "medical line", Whitty would instantly lose much of his political backing and there would be a violent reaction from the populace at what would be expected of them (everybody strictly confined to home under martial law until a sufficient number had been vaccinated, perhaps six months). It would be conter-productive, so he balances what he says in order to achieve the best possible outcome. | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:54 - Jan 11 with 1586 views | bluelagos |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:51 - Jan 11 by StokieBlue |
What is he supposed to say?
That answer is correct, it's not for him to say what shops are essential, that is a political decision.
SB |
He could highlight the risks associated with leaving them open and point out that his advice would be to close them (If true) | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:55 - Jan 11 with 1576 views | WD19 |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:52 - Jan 11 by bluelagos |
They are developing their narrative. It is the "lack of compliance" and people fall for it.
That the roads etc. are busier now than in April isn't due to a lack of compliance. It is due to the fact that in April lots of businesses closed that didn't need to. Now they are choosing to open. All fully within the law.
That isn't a lack of compliance. It maybe that we need to tighten up the rules but let's not pretend there is widespread rule breaking. It simply isn't true. |
They are not mutually exclusive.
I agree with your wider point, but there is widespread rule bending - lets not pretend otherwise. The 'other boys are doing it more than me sir' excuse is getting a lot of use. | | | |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:55 - Jan 11 with 1573 views | Guthrum |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:48 - Jan 11 by WD19 |
Except they will, via furlough.
In the example given the individual could be placed in furlough and receive 80% of their pay from the treasury for staying at home all day. |
If the person in question is placed on furlough. But that is a decision for the employer, who can refuse despite personal circumstances. | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:56 - Jan 11 with 1574 views | bluelagos |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:48 - Jan 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Don't walk on a remote beach but do pop to the factory shop ffs! |
That's our current policy and people are falling for it - repeating it. We even have had a few suggesting using the army to police mask wearing. | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:58 - Jan 11 with 1561 views | StokieBlue |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:52 - Jan 11 by bluelagos |
They are developing their narrative. It is the "lack of compliance" and people fall for it.
That the roads etc. are busier now than in April isn't due to a lack of compliance. It is due to the fact that in April lots of businesses closed that didn't need to. Now they are choosing to open. All fully within the law.
That isn't a lack of compliance. It maybe that we need to tighten up the rules but let's not pretend there is widespread rule breaking. It simply isn't true. |
Morning BL.
The issue is that those businesses did need to close in April and they need to close now if we want to limit the spread of B117. Whether they technically needed to close under the rules in April isn't really relevant. The government need to actually state which businesses need to close and provide the relevant support for those businesses and employees.
Whilst I agree widespread rule breaking probably isn't taking place I do think it's fairly clear than some businesses are stretching the rules around key workers. That isn't rule breaking by the individual though, that is the businesses stretching the rules.
The simple facts are that we barely controlled the R in April with a much stricter lockdown and now we are trying to control the R with a much more contagious variant by doing a lot less of what was done in April.
It's unlikely to work.
SB | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:59 - Jan 11 with 1550 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:51 - Jan 11 by StokieBlue |
What is he supposed to say?
That answer is correct, it's not for him to say what shops are essential, that is a political decision.
SB |
I don't think I said I had a problem with his answer! It would be interesting if somebody asked what his advice would be.
On an aside it would be nice to hear Starmer try to lead with unpopular choices but we all know he won't...just lots of 'mays' and 'perhaps' as usual! | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:00 - Jan 11 with 1545 views | StokieBlue |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:54 - Jan 11 by bluelagos |
He could highlight the risks associated with leaving them open and point out that his advice would be to close them (If true) |
I am sure he does that to the government in the meetings but it's really not his job to do interviews and make statements in contradiction to the current policies.
I think it's incredibly harsh to be criticising him in this way.
As an aside, a number of coffee shops locally have Tweeted that they have closed as they don't feel that getting a takeaway coffee is "essential". They have taken the right action even without specific government help. Clearly it shouldn't be left down to the business to make this decision and take the hit though.
SB [Post edited 11 Jan 2021 9:02]
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:02 - Jan 11 with 1529 views | bluelagos |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:55 - Jan 11 by WD19 |
They are not mutually exclusive.
I agree with your wider point, but there is widespread rule bending - lets not pretend otherwise. The 'other boys are doing it more than me sir' excuse is getting a lot of use. |
Of course there is rule breaking. But is it widespread?
I don't buy it. What I do see is widespread highlighting of every sighting of rule breaking and people thus believing it is a far bigger problem than it really is. | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:03 - Jan 11 with 1528 views | Guthrum |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:54 - Jan 11 by bluelagos |
He could highlight the risks associated with leaving them open and point out that his advice would be to close them (If true) |
If he said that out in the open, he would lose whatever leverage in private he has with the actual decisionmakers. Who are themselves under pressure from people who are either not listening to the medical advice anyway or who have responsibility for trying to make sure the country still has a viable economy when all this is over.
I don't doubt he has expressed himself strongly behind closed doors. | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:03 - Jan 11 with 1523 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:58 - Jan 11 by StokieBlue |
Morning BL.
The issue is that those businesses did need to close in April and they need to close now if we want to limit the spread of B117. Whether they technically needed to close under the rules in April isn't really relevant. The government need to actually state which businesses need to close and provide the relevant support for those businesses and employees.
Whilst I agree widespread rule breaking probably isn't taking place I do think it's fairly clear than some businesses are stretching the rules around key workers. That isn't rule breaking by the individual though, that is the businesses stretching the rules.
The simple facts are that we barely controlled the R in April with a much stricter lockdown and now we are trying to control the R with a much more contagious variant by doing a lot less of what was done in April.
It's unlikely to work.
SB |
At the risk of being controversial, I think we are all agreeing here! | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:07 - Jan 11 with 1498 views | bournemouthblue |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:17 - Jan 11 by bluelagos |
So they are going down the "It's the rule breakers fault" route?
Nothing to do with the 90% of public interactions that are work related then...
Great, expect the public scorn we got in lockdown 1 to come piling down once again on anyone going for a walk, sitting in a park etc. |
It always annoys me when people start blaming each other, yes there is some personal responsibility but when most of the spread is in areas the Government can control and simply have chosen not to, it's their fault. I know that's tricky if you voted Tory at the last election, it's pretty embarassing if you voted Tory and now see the total mess they have made of this.
Would Labour have done any better? They'd have inherited the country after 10 years of austerity cuts which which will certainly have contributed to our handling of this
They wouldn't have privatised Test and Trace, that's for sure. They would probably have acted quicker and listened to the experts sooner and been less willing just to let the people use their 'common sense' as Boris did early on.
I can just imagine the headlines though
Marxist Corbyn spends how much on furlough?
What recession in 500 years, we told you Corbyn would bankrupt the country |  |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:08 - Jan 11 with 1495 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:03 - Jan 11 by Guthrum |
If he said that out in the open, he would lose whatever leverage in private he has with the actual decisionmakers. Who are themselves under pressure from people who are either not listening to the medical advice anyway or who have responsibility for trying to make sure the country still has a viable economy when all this is over.
I don't doubt he has expressed himself strongly behind closed doors. |
He could be a bit more 'Faucci!' | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:09 - Jan 11 with 1489 views | bluelagos |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:58 - Jan 11 by StokieBlue |
Morning BL.
The issue is that those businesses did need to close in April and they need to close now if we want to limit the spread of B117. Whether they technically needed to close under the rules in April isn't really relevant. The government need to actually state which businesses need to close and provide the relevant support for those businesses and employees.
Whilst I agree widespread rule breaking probably isn't taking place I do think it's fairly clear than some businesses are stretching the rules around key workers. That isn't rule breaking by the individual though, that is the businesses stretching the rules.
The simple facts are that we barely controlled the R in April with a much stricter lockdown and now we are trying to control the R with a much more contagious variant by doing a lot less of what was done in April.
It's unlikely to work.
SB |
Morning,
Agree with all of that. You are a rare (reasoned) advocate for tighter rules, somewhat refreshing from the "send in the army" reactions from some. (Don't know why they annoy me to much but hey ho)
I'd just say it is naive in the extreme to expect businesses to close because of a "public duty" - they will need mandating and supporting if that is what we need to happen.
"Shaming" them seems to be the approach of many and it will have very limited success imho. | |
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