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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition 11:23 - Jan 13 with 2660 viewsGlasgowBlue


“A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable, who believes that there is no virtue but on his own side, and that there are not men as honest as himself who may differ from him in political principles”.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:15 - Jan 13 with 299 viewsgordon

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:43 - Jan 13 by footers

I think that's a pretty lazy outlook and not one I agree at all with. The Labour party can be both progressive as a social democratic force and electable. It's not an either or for me, which I know you won't agree with, so I guess we'll leave it there :)


Yes, completely agree with this - and I thought Corbyn was basically unelectable - but it wasn't because he was 'too progressive'. Worth saying that we'd be dealing with this pandemic far better if we'd just had ten years of competently administered progressive politics rather than ten years of vacuous, self-serving idiots.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:20 - Jan 13 with 287 viewsSpruceMoose

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:15 - Jan 13 by gordon

Yes, completely agree with this - and I thought Corbyn was basically unelectable - but it wasn't because he was 'too progressive'. Worth saying that we'd be dealing with this pandemic far better if we'd just had ten years of competently administered progressive politics rather than ten years of vacuous, self-serving idiots.


Progressive policies and progressive leaders can also tap into those communities that haven't switched support, they just never actually vote in the first place. Just look at what occurred over in the US recently, with what Stacy Abrams achieved in Georgia and Beto O'Rourke almost pulled off in Texas.

You need to give people a reason to vote, to make them feel like their voice matters, that they can have an impact. You also need to fight persistent voter suppression tactics wherever they can be found. Above all else, you need to present them with a compelling vision. Just pointing out that the other guy is terrible won't work.

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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:23 - Jan 13 with 282 viewsfooters

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:20 - Jan 13 by SpruceMoose

Progressive policies and progressive leaders can also tap into those communities that haven't switched support, they just never actually vote in the first place. Just look at what occurred over in the US recently, with what Stacy Abrams achieved in Georgia and Beto O'Rourke almost pulled off in Texas.

You need to give people a reason to vote, to make them feel like their voice matters, that they can have an impact. You also need to fight persistent voter suppression tactics wherever they can be found. Above all else, you need to present them with a compelling vision. Just pointing out that the other guy is terrible won't work.


The last few Labour GEs saw a lot of work being done with young Black people in the UK who felt disenfranchised by politics generally. There was a real surge in support, similar I suppose to what was being done in Georgia in the States. So I think you're definitely right there. More needs to be done to offer the British public an actual vision of the future and what it means for them and their families. We got Brexit instead.

footers QC - Prosecution Barrister, Hasketon Law Chambers
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:31 - Jan 13 with 271 viewsSpruceMoose

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:23 - Jan 13 by footers

The last few Labour GEs saw a lot of work being done with young Black people in the UK who felt disenfranchised by politics generally. There was a real surge in support, similar I suppose to what was being done in Georgia in the States. So I think you're definitely right there. More needs to be done to offer the British public an actual vision of the future and what it means for them and their families. We got Brexit instead.


Right wing politics these days (maybe always?) seems to be the politics of grievance. The politics of moaning and complaining about other people and their actions. The politics of why we can't do something rather than the politics of being able to do most things if we put in effort and give it a little thought.

Like you say, there's a wide open field for a party to present a positive vison of the future that people can get behind. The press sneering at anything that's presented that's even slightly optimistic or ambitious does not help in this regard.

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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:35 - Jan 13 with 259 viewstractorboyjames

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:31 - Jan 13 by SpruceMoose

Right wing politics these days (maybe always?) seems to be the politics of grievance. The politics of moaning and complaining about other people and their actions. The politics of why we can't do something rather than the politics of being able to do most things if we put in effort and give it a little thought.

Like you say, there's a wide open field for a party to present a positive vison of the future that people can get behind. The press sneering at anything that's presented that's even slightly optimistic or ambitious does not help in this regard.


"Right wing politics these days (maybe always?) seems to be the politics of grievance. "

Have you been on Labour's Facebook page lately?
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:37 - Jan 13 with 255 viewsfooters

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:35 - Jan 13 by tractorboyjames

"Right wing politics these days (maybe always?) seems to be the politics of grievance. "

Have you been on Labour's Facebook page lately?


I haven't, but if you read closely you will see that we're discussing the lack of a positive vision from the Labour party as well as the Tories.

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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:43 - Jan 13 with 247 viewstractorboyjames

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:37 - Jan 13 by footers

I haven't, but if you read closely you will see that we're discussing the lack of a positive vision from the Labour party as well as the Tories.


That might be what you are discussing.

The majority is infighting and bitterness between the 'left' and the 'centrists'. Quite depressing.

I quite like Starmer, he's working class, intelligent, competent. The Tories and media haven't even needed to bother trying to undermine him, because the left is doing such a brilliant job.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:44 - Jan 13 with 245 viewsgordon

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:35 - Jan 13 by tractorboyjames

"Right wing politics these days (maybe always?) seems to be the politics of grievance. "

Have you been on Labour's Facebook page lately?


There is a difference though in being aggrieved about the 'woke leftie mob' on twitter or whatever, and being aggrieved that children are going to sleep hungry because the government is making a political decision that it should be so.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:46 - Jan 13 with 240 viewsSpruceMoose

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:35 - Jan 13 by tractorboyjames

"Right wing politics these days (maybe always?) seems to be the politics of grievance. "

Have you been on Labour's Facebook page lately?


I was hoping for replies of more substance than "B...Bu...Bu...Buh...But Labour!" to be honest.

There are of course genuine grievances that need to be pointed out and rectified - such as the government and their lunch offerings. If you actually examine it, plenty of the grievances from the mainstream right basically boil down to 'Well, I just don't like it', rather than being based on pushing back against inequality or disenfranchisement that you see on the left.

I'd be interested if you could find me a grievance that you see repeated regularly from the mainstream left that isn't, at it's heart, based on trying to improve the life of a person, or trying to improve the lives of people in general rather than improving economic conditions for a business. Not trying to start a scrap, I genuinely can't think of one.
[Post edited 13 Jan 17:52]

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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:47 - Jan 13 with 238 viewsGlasgowBlue

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:35 - Jan 13 by tractorboyjames

"Right wing politics these days (maybe always?) seems to be the politics of grievance. "

Have you been on Labour's Facebook page lately?


Sad to see Corbyn’s son criticising Starmer for wearing a purple tie and calling him Keith rather than Kier.

“A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable, who believes that there is no virtue but on his own side, and that there are not men as honest as himself who may differ from him in political principles”.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:48 - Jan 13 with 234 viewstractorboyjames

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:44 - Jan 13 by gordon

There is a difference though in being aggrieved about the 'woke leftie mob' on twitter or whatever, and being aggrieved that children are going to sleep hungry because the government is making a political decision that it should be so.


Yes I'm not sure there is much support for that anywhere on the political spectrum.

This govt are woefully inept at judging public opinion!!
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:51 - Jan 13 with 226 viewsmonytowbray

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 13:21 - Jan 13 by LankHenners

Strange scenes at PMQs where Johnson in effect says Rashford is doing a better job than Starmer at holding the government to account on things like this because he's making them change the way they do things and properly go into action.

Don't think he's wrong either.


Saw a tweet today saying Starmer needs some acting training to show more compassion and emotion.

Bootlickers love a white man in a suit I guess.

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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:54 - Jan 13 with 225 viewsSpruceMoose

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:51 - Jan 13 by monytowbray

Saw a tweet today saying Starmer needs some acting training to show more compassion and emotion.

Bootlickers love a white man in a suit I guess.





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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:54 - Jan 13 with 218 viewsmonytowbray

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 14:33 - Jan 13 by TieDyedIn95

Maybe not, but 99% of people just blindly ignore tit for tat politics now from any party.

Last election....

Labour: Tories are going to sell the NHS (implies to Donald Trump and it didn't happen)

Tories: You will ruin the economy (while the Tories have) and will have no boarder control (which what the Tories have done)

Labour: Yeah well your Islamophobic (they are not)

Tories: You hate Jews (they dont)

Labour: Well your fascists (they are not)

Tories: Well your communists (no they are not}

and so on, and so fourth.... vote for us. They are like a bunch of toddlers.


Game of slogans innit.

Some of us actually pay attention to the context and the data over the headline snippet to find the truth.

Shame more don’t really, would save a lot of bother.

Also you are correct they haven’t sold the NHS off... yet. But Trump’s loss is a huge blow to Tory cronyism. I’m here for the ride!

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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:56 - Jan 13 with 214 viewsmonytowbray

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 14:42 - Jan 13 by itfcjoe

I was listening to a focus group on Times Radio yesterrday and Starmer just isn't really cutting through, and when he does they think he is playing politics and should be supporting Johnson in everything........

He's in a tough position, but seems to be lining up a long form attack on Boris which just isn't going to cut through with the public when it matters - the public aren't members of a jury who are following everything intently and will then convict Boris for lies.......hard to know what is the right thing to do currently


Shame really, I bet his former would have done an excellent job sh1tting on the Tories now people were willing to listen more than be gaslighted!

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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 18:03 - Jan 13 with 209 viewsDarth_Koont

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:03 - Jan 13 by GlasgowBlue

After the shambolic Corbyn years, Labour needed a Neil Kinnock. Starmer fits the bill.

Somebody from the left who dissociates himself from the lunatic fringe and will lay the groundwork for a more electable leader..


Not sure that’s right at all.

For starters, from Kinnock to Blair’s election took 14 years. That’s even when Labour had a rock-solid foundation of support, especially in the regions and amongst the working class. And that’s now gone thanks to Kinnock and Blair taking the left and socialism/social democracy for granted.

Nowadays, Labour are a busted flush unless they address real problems with progressive solutions. Otherwise they’re just fighting in a centre-right arena already occupied by the LibDems and the Tories. Their only surge in recent decades was through attracting younger voters who wanted change which is where Starmer’s leadership has been particularly poor.

We’re also talking about a digital age, where people are much better informed and engaged outside of the main political parties. Labour have been, and will continue to be, utterly outflanked if they revert to playing politics rather than taking a lead on the real issues affecting the UK and it’s citizens.

And on a side but perhaps most relevant note, the idea that someone like you would push for what the Labour Party “needs” should be enough of a warning. You yearn for ineffective politics and the status quo.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 18:09 - Jan 13 with 194 viewsmonytowbray

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:54 - Jan 13 by SpruceMoose





I mean, if the choice is Tories or a Tory version of Labour that Glassers will vote for we really need democratic reform for fair representation over FFPT.

The planet will struggle to survive on watered down green policies that still favour lobbying corporations.

But then again Biden has been the furthest left nominated Democratic of my lifetime in terms of presentation through the election cycle. The majority actually support socialist ideas when surveyed, but they are also ruled by fear, poor education, propaganda and general racism. It’s nice to see that habit broken somewhat for the USA.

I’d be interested to see how these 4 years pan out but as the older voters die off and the young get more fed up in numbers this country will go the same way. The 18-24 vote was red as f*ck in December 2019.
[Post edited 13 Jan 18:09]

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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 18:14 - Jan 13 with 186 viewsDarth_Koont

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 18:09 - Jan 13 by monytowbray

I mean, if the choice is Tories or a Tory version of Labour that Glassers will vote for we really need democratic reform for fair representation over FFPT.

The planet will struggle to survive on watered down green policies that still favour lobbying corporations.

But then again Biden has been the furthest left nominated Democratic of my lifetime in terms of presentation through the election cycle. The majority actually support socialist ideas when surveyed, but they are also ruled by fear, poor education, propaganda and general racism. It’s nice to see that habit broken somewhat for the USA.

I’d be interested to see how these 4 years pan out but as the older voters die off and the young get more fed up in numbers this country will go the same way. The 18-24 vote was red as f*ck in December 2019.
[Post edited 13 Jan 18:09]


The idea that someone as reactionary and resistant to real change as Glassers would vote Labour now shows how utterly bereft of talent, vision and accountability our politics has become.

The irony for him is that this is the quickest way to achieve Scottish Independence. 😂
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 18:21 - Jan 13 with 174 viewsitfcjoe

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:56 - Jan 13 by monytowbray

Shame really, I bet his former would have done an excellent job sh1tting on the Tories now people were willing to listen more than be gaslighted!


Yea, Corbyn did such a good job at going after the Tories when in opposition

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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 18:23 - Jan 13 with 165 viewsSpruceMoose

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 18:21 - Jan 13 by itfcjoe

Yea, Corbyn did such a good job at going after the Tories when in opposition


To be fair he smashed them every Wednesday at PMQs. Too many people don't care about substance though. They care about easily repeated quips and slogans, parroting media talking points rather than actually doing their own critical thinking, and above all else, not rocking the boat.

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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 18:27 - Jan 13 with 158 viewsDarth_Koont

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 18:09 - Jan 13 by monytowbray

I mean, if the choice is Tories or a Tory version of Labour that Glassers will vote for we really need democratic reform for fair representation over FFPT.

The planet will struggle to survive on watered down green policies that still favour lobbying corporations.

But then again Biden has been the furthest left nominated Democratic of my lifetime in terms of presentation through the election cycle. The majority actually support socialist ideas when surveyed, but they are also ruled by fear, poor education, propaganda and general racism. It’s nice to see that habit broken somewhat for the USA.

I’d be interested to see how these 4 years pan out but as the older voters die off and the young get more fed up in numbers this country will go the same way. The 18-24 vote was red as f*ck in December 2019.
[Post edited 13 Jan 18:09]


Indeed. I think we’re seeing a status quo clinging onto power and regressing into their old core messages of family, nation and opportunity. They’re literally putting on the blinkers.

But while the world is changing and facing new environmental and social challenges (along with the old ones that haven’t been addressed) and people see how injustice, inequality and particularly low productivity just keep being ignored, all this is going to come home to roost. And it will discredit and invalidate any politician or media platform associated to it.

Change and progress is inevitable. Indeed, it’s evolutionary. The breed of politicians and political parties that can only react to external change or are guided by focus groups and niche interests will die out. Thank God.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 18:30 - Jan 13 with 152 viewsitfcjoe

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 18:23 - Jan 13 by SpruceMoose

To be fair he smashed them every Wednesday at PMQs. Too many people don't care about substance though. They care about easily repeated quips and slogans, parroting media talking points rather than actually doing their own critical thinking, and above all else, not rocking the boat.


He was generally poor at PMQs, when he did forge an opening to hammer something home and twist knife he retreated or went down a different path. He got better towards end but struggles to control anger and wasn’t at all good at the cut and thrust compared to how he was when campaigning in 17

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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 18:30 - Jan 13 with 153 viewsDarth_Koont

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 18:21 - Jan 13 by itfcjoe

Yea, Corbyn did such a good job at going after the Tories when in opposition


Some people were listening to what he said rather than to centrist pundits looking after their own interests.

I hope people look at the Free School Meals situation and ask themselves how complicit they were. And still are.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 18:36 - Jan 13 with 137 viewsjeera

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 18:21 - Jan 13 by itfcjoe

Yea, Corbyn did such a good job at going after the Tories when in opposition


I think it's been clear for some time now we should be long past the 'using Corbyn as an excuse' stage.

Well it looks like a duck, it sounds like a duck. Nope, dunno what it is.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 18:38 - Jan 13 with 133 viewsDarth_Koont

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:23 - Jan 13 by footers

The last few Labour GEs saw a lot of work being done with young Black people in the UK who felt disenfranchised by politics generally. There was a real surge in support, similar I suppose to what was being done in Georgia in the States. So I think you're definitely right there. More needs to be done to offer the British public an actual vision of the future and what it means for them and their families. We got Brexit instead.


To be fair, Scotland got independence which is pretty uplifting and forward thinking.

I think England has a lot of issues to work through but I don’t see anyone with a positive and hopeful message as long as they don’t address the underlying structural and political problems.

The irony is that by addressing England’s problems on their own merits, you’d be halfway to solving the issues with the Union.
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