| Evans backing question..... 19:48 - Jan 13 with 5147 views | BlueBertie |
Apologies if this has been spoken about before but why do some on here trot out the opinion that we should be grateful for him putting money into our club, £5 million or so just to keep us afloat each year and that somehow we should be grateful. Surely this is complete nonsense as the reason he's having to is 100% down to his miss-management of the club. A fair chunk of the debt figure banded about doesn't exist surely. I run my own business and if I have problems which are down to me, I don't ask my customers to pay for these costs? |  | | |  |
| Evans backing question..... on 10:47 - Jan 15 with 883 views | Keaneish |
| Evans backing question..... on 10:00 - Jan 15 by hype313 |
Neither of us know how things would have panned out in all honesty, This line of " but ultimately we would have been able reset, chastened, but debt free and ready to go again" maybe true, but what division? How far down would we have gone before we would be able to reset?
Look, I'm not Evans fan, far from it, I'd love nothing more than someone to come in who has a genuine interest in transforming our fortunes as opposed to someone taking a punt and doubling down when it doesn't work out, but I do wonder what would have happened to us if the nuclear option had taken place. |
I think the reality is, Evans bought our debt from banks and creditors (Barclays and Aviva) and rolled it into the Marcus Evans bank. He is the new Barclays and Aviva as he receives interest payments based on what he loans - the more he loans, the more he makes. The bizarre anomaly with this compared to banks is that he extends the funding to us far beyond what any bank would ever have done giving us a longer stay of execution.
The issue ME has is trying to maintain the balance of lending and the overall value of the business for any long term objectives. Are we better for Evans? Hard to say but I think we van all agree, this ownership is very murky, not very trustworthy and shrouded in mystery and uncertainty- that for me is an indication that we’d have been better off without him because we shouldn’t be in this position 13 years into a relationship. [Post edited 15 Jan 2021 10:55]
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| Evans backing question..... on 12:57 - Jan 15 with 860 views | Freddy |
He's having to put more than 5m in this season, how much has been lost for season tickets, matchday revenue? | | | |
| Evans backing question..... on 13:19 - Jan 15 with 856 views | Keaneish |
| Evans backing question..... on 12:57 - Jan 15 by Freddy |
He's having to put more than 5m in this season, how much has been lost for season tickets, matchday revenue? |
It might not be too significant all in. A lot of people have maintained their season ticket contributions and the rescue package covers part of the losses. No doubt there will be some loss to cover however.
https://www.efl.com/news/2020/december/efl-and-premier-league-statement-rescue-p | |
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| Evans backing question..... on 13:48 - Jan 15 with 844 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Evans backing question..... on 10:47 - Jan 15 by Keaneish |
I think the reality is, Evans bought our debt from banks and creditors (Barclays and Aviva) and rolled it into the Marcus Evans bank. He is the new Barclays and Aviva as he receives interest payments based on what he loans - the more he loans, the more he makes. The bizarre anomaly with this compared to banks is that he extends the funding to us far beyond what any bank would ever have done giving us a longer stay of execution.
The issue ME has is trying to maintain the balance of lending and the overall value of the business for any long term objectives. Are we better for Evans? Hard to say but I think we van all agree, this ownership is very murky, not very trustworthy and shrouded in mystery and uncertainty- that for me is an indication that we’d have been better off without him because we shouldn’t be in this position 13 years into a relationship. [Post edited 15 Jan 2021 10:55]
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Ipswich Town Football Club does not make interest payments to ANY of Marcus Evans' companies.
There is a tiny amount of preference share dividend that is accounted for as interest but never paid. Everything else has been either waived or capitalised.
How many times does this need to be pointed out? | | | |
| Evans backing question..... on 13:54 - Jan 15 with 836 views | jayessess |
| Evans backing question..... on 13:48 - Jan 15 by PrideOfTheEast |
Ipswich Town Football Club does not make interest payments to ANY of Marcus Evans' companies.
There is a tiny amount of preference share dividend that is accounted for as interest but never paid. Everything else has been either waived or capitalised.
How many times does this need to be pointed out? |
Not sure why so many Ipswich supporters feel the need to explain Evans' failures as conspiracy rather than incompetence. |  |
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| Evans backing question..... on 13:57 - Jan 15 with 834 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Evans backing question..... on 13:54 - Jan 15 by jayessess |
Not sure why so many Ipswich supporters feel the need to explain Evans' failures as conspiracy rather than incompetence. |
Doesn't seem like an area that needs to be questioned does it. Focus on the football side and the decision making. | | | |
| Evans backing question..... on 14:08 - Jan 15 with 824 views | Keaneish |
| Evans backing question..... on 13:48 - Jan 15 by PrideOfTheEast |
Ipswich Town Football Club does not make interest payments to ANY of Marcus Evans' companies.
There is a tiny amount of preference share dividend that is accounted for as interest but never paid. Everything else has been either waived or capitalised.
How many times does this need to be pointed out? |
Did that change or were interest repayments part of the deal if and only if we returned to the PL? This article at the time says interest was payable on £8.1m when we made the PL but further in the article it says that interest at 7% is payable to MEI although it’s a little vague whether this is upon return to the PL or not - this might be why there’s conjecture. A few other sources say interest is repaid at 5.4% although these are less reliable.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2008/jan/09/ipswichtow [Post edited 15 Jan 2021 14:33]
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| Evans backing question..... on 14:17 - Jan 15 with 820 views | Keaneish |
| Evans backing question..... on 13:54 - Jan 15 by jayessess |
Not sure why so many Ipswich supporters feel the need to explain Evans' failures as conspiracy rather than incompetence. |
I know it’s vogue to label everything conspiracy at the moment but this discussion is hardly about Evans conspiracy, it’s simple business economics and the reality of how beholden we are to one man irrelevant of whether he makes interest now or upon a PL return. | |
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| Evans backing question..... on 15:09 - Jan 15 with 805 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Evans backing question..... on 14:08 - Jan 15 by Keaneish |
Did that change or were interest repayments part of the deal if and only if we returned to the PL? This article at the time says interest was payable on £8.1m when we made the PL but further in the article it says that interest at 7% is payable to MEI although it’s a little vague whether this is upon return to the PL or not - this might be why there’s conjecture. A few other sources say interest is repaid at 5.4% although these are less reliable.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2008/jan/09/ipswichtow [Post edited 15 Jan 2021 14:33]
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It changed in around 2012 I think mate. | | | |
| Evans backing question..... on 15:14 - Jan 15 with 803 views | jayessess |
| Evans backing question..... on 14:17 - Jan 15 by Keaneish |
I know it’s vogue to label everything conspiracy at the moment but this discussion is hardly about Evans conspiracy, it’s simple business economics and the reality of how beholden we are to one man irrelevant of whether he makes interest now or upon a PL return. |
Specifically, the idea that Evans in some way benefits financially from the club failing, is a conspiracy theory. | |
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| Evans backing question..... on 15:20 - Jan 15 with 801 views | Keaneish |
| Evans backing question..... on 15:14 - Jan 15 by jayessess |
Specifically, the idea that Evans in some way benefits financially from the club failing, is a conspiracy theory. |
I don’t think a business man wanting to profit from a business venture no matter how he does it is conspiratorial. It’s the opportunity afforded by capitalism and the laissez-faire approach to economics. | |
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| Evans backing question..... on 15:27 - Jan 15 with 793 views | itfcjoe |
| Evans backing question..... on 15:20 - Jan 15 by Keaneish |
I don’t think a business man wanting to profit from a business venture no matter how he does it is conspiratorial. It’s the opportunity afforded by capitalism and the laissez-faire approach to economics. |
Of course he wants to, but he demonstrably isn't in any way |  |
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| Evans backing question..... on 15:37 - Jan 15 with 780 views | Dyland |
| Evans backing question..... on 11:22 - Jan 14 by HighgateBlue |
The £5m or whatever figure it is (I always thought it was £6m, but there we go) is a figure that is needed to inject each year to plug our operating losses. The debt figure is totally irrelevant to this.
You run your own business. I assume you make a profit. ITFC does not. In order for it to make a profit, we would have to spend hardly anything on wages. I don't know how many L1 clubs break even but it can't be very many at all, if any.
If he were to sell the club for £1 to the supporters club and forgive all of the debt, the club may well fold, as it would need to pay off very many players in order to break even. Even if it could pay off whatever players it wanted for £0, it would need to have a tiny tiny budget in order to break even, and would surely not be able to compete in L1.
Football clubs generally run at a loss. Whoever plugs that loss means that our football club continues. I'm not bowing down at Evans' feet, but I do appreciate him putting millions into our club each year. He's got some managerial appointments badly badly wrong, and the 5 year deal for Lambert is mind-boggling, but I do not understand the antipathy towards the guy. There's no evidence whatsoever that he has some sort of evil agenda. He's just trying to do his best. He appoints professional managers each time, all of whom had either achieved promotion with a previous club, or in the case of Hurst had outperformed with a previous club. No appointment is going to please all the fans, but at the time, there was no widespread consensus with any manager that it was a bonkers appointment.
We have had an awful 20 years to endure. No doubt about that. But Evans is in administrative control of an organisation, and if one is going to criticise him, one needs to do so with calm rational analysis, not merely knee jerk reactions or rage. Personally I think Lambert has performed very poorly and given that I can't see the season turning around, he should go now. There are numerous possible replacements, all of whom would be a risk but would have a chance at turning us round. Getting rid of Evans is not a solution, because that proposition on its own does not answer the question as to what he is replaced with, or on what terms. |
I don't disagree with much of that. However he is currently doubling down on yet another awful big decision, which in itself was bizarre, i.e. five year contract instead of the heave ho. We are likely to pay for this, him and us, profoundly.
I would LOOOOVE to be proved wrong... |  |
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| Evans backing question..... on 16:55 - Jan 15 with 765 views | Freddy |
10m loss for this season according to an article in the EADT back in July | | | |
| Evans backing question..... on 17:04 - Jan 15 with 751 views | jayessess |
| Evans backing question..... on 15:20 - Jan 15 by Keaneish |
I don’t think a business man wanting to profit from a business venture no matter how he does it is conspiratorial. It’s the opportunity afforded by capitalism and the laissez-faire approach to economics. |
"Evans wants to make a profit from owning ITFC" - not conspiratorial
"Evans deliberately sets ITFC to fail because this benefits him financially" - conspiratorial | |
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| Evans backing question..... on 17:26 - Jan 15 with 740 views | casanovacrow |
| Evans backing question..... on 15:14 - Jan 15 by jayessess |
Specifically, the idea that Evans in some way benefits financially from the club failing, is a conspiracy theory. |
Owning this club will be a pain in the arse to the guy, I won't dispute that. Its a financial black hole.
It doesnt mean people are conspiracy theorists for asking questions as to why we are financially incompetetive. We've had big fees in, paid little out and our wages comparatively in the championship were bottom end.
Lots of us are just trying to figure out what it is that's holding us back to the extent that it is and why. |  | | |
| Evans backing question..... on 17:41 - Jan 15 with 730 views | jayessess |
| Evans backing question..... on 17:26 - Jan 15 by casanovacrow |
Owning this club will be a pain in the arse to the guy, I won't dispute that. Its a financial black hole.
It doesnt mean people are conspiracy theorists for asking questions as to why we are financially incompetetive. We've had big fees in, paid little out and our wages comparatively in the championship were bottom end.
Lots of us are just trying to figure out what it is that's holding us back to the extent that it is and why. |
What's to figure out? Our revenues in the Championship were bottom quarter for the division, so our spending was inevitably going to be less competitive. There's no mystery here. | |
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| Evans backing question..... on 17:50 - Jan 15 with 727 views | casanovacrow |
| Evans backing question..... on 17:41 - Jan 15 by jayessess |
What's to figure out? Our revenues in the Championship were bottom quarter for the division, so our spending was inevitably going to be less competitive. There's no mystery here. |
Our revenues were bottom quarter, why? What is it that's causing it? A brief look to other comparatively smaller clubs they manage much better.
It's not an accusation of wrongdoing, or conspiracy, it's maybe there is something we are doing that could be done differently that would help us out. Some people seem to hear trigger words and assume more is being implied. [Post edited 15 Jan 2021 17:59]
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| Evans backing question..... on 18:10 - Jan 15 with 719 views | Keaneish |
| Evans backing question..... on 17:04 - Jan 15 by jayessess |
"Evans wants to make a profit from owning ITFC" - not conspiratorial
"Evans deliberately sets ITFC to fail because this benefits him financially" - conspiratorial |
Where have I said Evans deliberately sets up to fail and how would that make any sense for any party involved? | |
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| Evans backing question..... on 18:16 - Jan 15 with 711 views | PhilTWTD |
| Evans backing question..... on 16:55 - Jan 15 by Freddy |
10m loss for this season according to an article in the EADT back in July |
The club estimated a £10 million loss of income, which is different. The club would already make a loss anyway without the lost income so going to be higher than that, although mitigated to some extent by other cash coming in from Premier League etc. |  | | |
| Evans backing question..... on 19:11 - Jan 15 with 676 views | Keaneish |
| Evans backing question..... on 18:54 - Jan 15 by PhilTWTD |
Nothing has ever been physically repaid, interest has been added to the balance sheet. As Pride says, there has been no new interest since 2012, as per the below which outlines the reasons behind that.
 Town Announce £9.8 Million Loss 5th Dec 2013 22:45Town have announced a loss of £9.776 million in the year to June 2013, down from the previous year’s figure of £15.964 million. The club’s debt rose from £72.481 million to £82.437 million.  28
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Thanks for clarifying, Phil. Do you know if that £2 million incurred in interest was against the £8.1 million loan or from the £32 million pay-off (or whatever the significantly reduced figure actually was)? | |
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