| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 21:17 - Jan 14 with 5834 views | Dubtractor |
Surprise! They are looking to roll back workers rights and protections.
Who'd have predicted that this would happen........
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:10 - Jan 15 with 614 views | m14_blue |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:00 - Jan 15 by monytowbray |
Why do the left constantly have to compromise for the centre though? How about the centralists own their part in fence sitting and grow a backbone about their role in inequality, environmental destruction and institutional racism?
It’s not so much I dislike such views but the fact we’ve had 40 years of disaster capitalism now and it’s got us here. Floating the centre isn’t sustainable for our planet, radical change is needed. |
But no change at all will happen unless you have the support of a majority of people (or what passes for a majority in our sham of a democracy).
That’s never going to happen if you view everyone who isn’t exactly aligned to your views as the enemy. You may get to preach to everyone and have the moral high ground but you’ll never make an actual difference.
It’s not about the left having to compromise, it’s about everyone having to compromise. |  | | |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:16 - Jan 15 with 605 views | monytowbray |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:10 - Jan 15 by m14_blue |
But no change at all will happen unless you have the support of a majority of people (or what passes for a majority in our sham of a democracy).
That’s never going to happen if you view everyone who isn’t exactly aligned to your views as the enemy. You may get to preach to everyone and have the moral high ground but you’ll never make an actual difference.
It’s not about the left having to compromise, it’s about everyone having to compromise. |
Yeah but if the majority choice is "Set fire to your entire road" or "Set fire to one or two houses on your road" and I'd rather watch you all argue about that, confused, and say "How about we burn no one's house down?"
The whole "Now we compromise" thing screams of those who enabled Trump now asking for healing. What compromise have the centre made for socialist policies over the last 10 years? Yes, that one. [Post edited 15 Jan 2021 13:18]
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:17 - Jan 15 with 602 views | monytowbray |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:05 - Jan 15 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed.
It’s a function of a predominantly right-wing media in the UK that our Overton window is a fair bit to the right of the rest of Western Europe. And even the acceptable “left” isn’t allowed to promote impactful social policy and address structural issues.
Well, we’re reaping what we sow. |
HOW LONG? NOT LONG. | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:22 - Jan 15 with 589 views | Darth_Koont |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:10 - Jan 15 by m14_blue |
But no change at all will happen unless you have the support of a majority of people (or what passes for a majority in our sham of a democracy).
That’s never going to happen if you view everyone who isn’t exactly aligned to your views as the enemy. You may get to preach to everyone and have the moral high ground but you’ll never make an actual difference.
It’s not about the left having to compromise, it’s about everyone having to compromise. |
That’s the mantra but I don’t think it’s true and perhaps never was.
Our politics has always been shaped by a minority inside and outside parties and on different sides of the discussion that has then been sold to the public. The majority don’t take particular positions or certainly move themselves much at all – it’s far too disparate a group.
And it’s why the LibDems have never established any real sway that logically a centrist party should have. |  |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:22 - Jan 15 with 586 views | m14_blue |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:16 - Jan 15 by monytowbray |
Yeah but if the majority choice is "Set fire to your entire road" or "Set fire to one or two houses on your road" and I'd rather watch you all argue about that, confused, and say "How about we burn no one's house down?"
The whole "Now we compromise" thing screams of those who enabled Trump now asking for healing. What compromise have the centre made for socialist policies over the last 10 years? Yes, that one. [Post edited 15 Jan 2021 13:18]
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Or you could try and work with the good people who are also trying to minimise the house burning, even if they’re not doing it in the way you would like, or as quickly as you would like.
We’re not going to agree but I’m not sure why you can’t see that by enthusiastically continuing the civil war on the left (which I know many centrists indulged in previously) all you will achieve is many more years of the right.
Starmer may not be reactionary enough for you, and I confess to being a little underwhelmed so far, but he’s quite obviously a decent man who wants to make people’s lives better. That would be a huge leap forward from what we currently have and could be a platform to something more. | | | |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:29 - Jan 15 with 570 views | Darth_Koont |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:23 - Jan 15 by tractordownsouth |
Still going with the self sabotage conspiracy? |
Come on.
Of course, heads won’t roll after the Forde inquiry but I’m going to make people eat as much of it as they can.
If the Labour Right feel that it was worth it and justifiable to make sure they got back in charge in opposition, Labour deserves to shrivel and die. | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:36 - Jan 15 with 550 views | monytowbray |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:22 - Jan 15 by m14_blue |
Or you could try and work with the good people who are also trying to minimise the house burning, even if they’re not doing it in the way you would like, or as quickly as you would like.
We’re not going to agree but I’m not sure why you can’t see that by enthusiastically continuing the civil war on the left (which I know many centrists indulged in previously) all you will achieve is many more years of the right.
Starmer may not be reactionary enough for you, and I confess to being a little underwhelmed so far, but he’s quite obviously a decent man who wants to make people’s lives better. That would be a huge leap forward from what we currently have and could be a platform to something more. |
The destruction of our planet is not something we can tiptoe around anymore. We are in the last grasps of mitigation of damage as it is. If neither major party is going to stand up from lobbying from big oil and plastic we may as well build our bunkers and give up now.
It's not so much about compromise anymore, but waking people up to a reality the press and mainstream politics has hidden from us for decades.
You can't find a middle ground with fascism and lies. The time has come to pick a side. | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:37 - Jan 15 with 547 views | monytowbray |
Hi Lowhouse I thought I was div listed after your big song and dance defending fascist misinformation?! | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:38 - Jan 15 with 546 views | Dubtractor |
Enjoying the fact that a thread about tory brexit has become a debate asking why Labour aren't left wing enough. | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:41 - Jan 15 with 537 views | monytowbray |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:38 - Jan 15 by Dubtractor |
Enjoying the fact that a thread about tory brexit has become a debate asking why Labour aren't left wing enough. |
Probably helps if Brexiters, Brexit enablers and Brexit apologists wouldn't make "but Corbyn" their first (and only) argument. | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:50 - Jan 15 with 522 views | Dubtractor |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:41 - Jan 15 by monytowbray |
Probably helps if Brexiters, Brexit enablers and Brexit apologists wouldn't make "but Corbyn" their first (and only) argument. |
FWIW I agree with that - this is a tory brexit and whatever comes of it (good or bad) sits squarely with them and their media enablers.
That doesn't mean that I think Corbyn did a remotely good job during the referendum or after, but this isn't on him. | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:54 - Jan 15 with 517 views | Herbivore |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 09:37 - Jan 15 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Corbyn’s sychophantic followers are literally the most tribal people on here.
Still to this day he can do/did no wrong, and it’s always someone else’s fault. They would rather die in a ditch than offer any criticism. |
Says the man who entered this thread with a "yeah but Labour" post. Unbelievable, Jeff. |  |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:59 - Jan 15 with 510 views | Herbivore |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:21 - Jan 15 by tractordownsouth |
PR would have helped UKIP - they'd have won 80 seats in 2015 with a purely proportional system. |
But instead they ultimately ended up in power by scaring the Tories into becoming Diet UKIP (arguably now full fat UKIP). Under PR they'd have had seats but with it they'd have had to actually engage in politics in a serious fashion and would have been shown up as a bunch of numpties. Instead under FPTP they have indirect influence and no accountability. | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 14:05 - Jan 15 with 500 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:54 - Jan 15 by Herbivore |
Says the man who entered this thread with a "yeah but Labour" post. Unbelievable, Jeff. |
My first post was regarding the 48 hour opt-out. But as with many threads it seems to have derailed somewhat.
I've said before that I'd vote for KS so how is that tribal? | | | |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 14:07 - Jan 15 with 496 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 11:06 - Jan 15 by Darth_Koont |
Extreme centrists will always blame the left more than the right.
They know that a left critique has them banged to rights for what’s happened in this country and how we reached this point.
Sure, there’s disaster capitalists, populist xenophobes and proto-fascists like Mercer, Farage and Bannon looking to capitalise but they needed a weak, divided society. Over decades we’ve become extremely vulnerable when the status quo is propped up and defended by soft Establishment careerists in politics and the media (and indeed voters) that have made themselves eminently comfortable on the right side of the widening gap. |
"Extreme centrists"??? |  |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 14:09 - Jan 15 with 492 views | monytowbray |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:59 - Jan 15 by Herbivore |
But instead they ultimately ended up in power by scaring the Tories into becoming Diet UKIP (arguably now full fat UKIP). Under PR they'd have had seats but with it they'd have had to actually engage in politics in a serious fashion and would have been shown up as a bunch of numpties. Instead under FPTP they have indirect influence and no accountability. |
I've said many times I'd take fair representation over FPTP and give more seats to right wingers if it gave the left more of a voice too. The problem is we have to fly the middle because of the two party system.
Our democracy was decided by a bunch of rich old white men hundreds of years ago. The world has changed but how we run it hasn't much. | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 14:12 - Jan 15 with 475 views | jaykay |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 09:13 - Jan 15 by DanTheMan |
That's ridiculous logic. They are not complicit for policies they did not support. |
you know that when those who voted tory, what to distance them selves from this crowd of looking after their mates government, they have to resort to well if we had a strong opposition gambit , things are really bad. just imagine not calling them out but using that line, mind you that a well worn line with at least one other poster |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 14:13 - Jan 15 with 484 views | monytowbray |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:50 - Jan 15 by Dubtractor |
FWIW I agree with that - this is a tory brexit and whatever comes of it (good or bad) sits squarely with them and their media enablers.
That doesn't mean that I think Corbyn did a remotely good job during the referendum or after, but this isn't on him. |
I think anyone's entitled to say Jezza didn't do the best job, as a Euro skeptic you wouldn't expect him to, but Brexit was never about sensible voices, just "those people don't care about me but they hate foreigners the most so that'll get my vote". If Brexit were pushed by people I trust and based in sensible discussion I would have spent more time weighing up my vote.
But the scapegoating from sections of society is mental. I've even seen "But imagine if Corbyn were in charge" to defend the Tory's COVID performance. When your best argument is from an alternative reality you really need to stop and think.
FWIW, yes I think Corbyn would have done a much better job, and still it wouldn't have been enough for most the people who will defend Boris to the grave. | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 (n/t) on 14:14 - Jan 15 with 481 views | monytowbray |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 14:12 - Jan 15 by jaykay |
you know that when those who voted tory, what to distance them selves from this crowd of looking after their mates government, they have to resort to well if we had a strong opposition gambit , things are really bad. just imagine not calling them out but using that line, mind you that a well worn line with at least one other poster |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 (n/t) on 14:14 - Jan 15 with 481 views | monytowbray |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 14:12 - Jan 15 by jaykay |
you know that when those who voted tory, what to distance them selves from this crowd of looking after their mates government, they have to resort to well if we had a strong opposition gambit , things are really bad. just imagine not calling them out but using that line, mind you that a well worn line with at least one other poster |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 14:15 - Jan 15 with 478 views | monytowbray |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 14:12 - Jan 15 by jaykay |
you know that when those who voted tory, what to distance them selves from this crowd of looking after their mates government, they have to resort to well if we had a strong opposition gambit , things are really bad. just imagine not calling them out but using that line, mind you that a well worn line with at least one other poster |
As per normal, their absence in threads about Brexit, Austerity and Racism is always noted.
I think they know that though. I'd hate my experience of TWTD to be keeping my mouth shut about my past because I can't admit being wrong. | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 14:21 - Jan 15 with 468 views | itfcjoe |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 14:12 - Jan 15 by jaykay |
you know that when those who voted tory, what to distance them selves from this crowd of looking after their mates government, they have to resort to well if we had a strong opposition gambit , things are really bad. just imagine not calling them out but using that line, mind you that a well worn line with at least one other poster |
What about those who voted Labour but still think we should have a had a stronger opposition. The fact that the Brexit vote was so tight, and JC was missing in action bar saying that he'd rate the EU as 7/10, is a massive failure from the Labour party at getting their message across.
He was not engaged in the Brexit campaign, he was not visible, if he'd have campaigned for Remain with 50% as much fervour as he did for the 2017 GE then things would have been very different |  |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 14:27 - Jan 15 with 454 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 14:15 - Jan 15 by monytowbray |
As per normal, their absence in threads about Brexit, Austerity and Racism is always noted.
I think they know that though. I'd hate my experience of TWTD to be keeping my mouth shut about my past because I can't admit being wrong. |
What about those that voted Liberal Democrat? In my constituency they are the only ones that can realistically hope to win (even then it’s very unlikely)
I was simply lamenting that this terrible Govt have little opposition. | | | |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 14:31 - Jan 15 with 447 views | jeera |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 14:21 - Jan 15 by itfcjoe |
What about those who voted Labour but still think we should have a had a stronger opposition. The fact that the Brexit vote was so tight, and JC was missing in action bar saying that he'd rate the EU as 7/10, is a massive failure from the Labour party at getting their message across.
He was not engaged in the Brexit campaign, he was not visible, if he'd have campaigned for Remain with 50% as much fervour as he did for the 2017 GE then things would have been very different |
JC has been anti EU membership for his entire political career.
Why would he actively campaign to remain, other than to look for votes which would then be considered hypocritical? |  |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 14:38 - Jan 15 with 437 views | itfcjoe |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 14:31 - Jan 15 by jeera |
JC has been anti EU membership for his entire political career.
Why would he actively campaign to remain, other than to look for votes which would then be considered hypocritical? |
Because Remain was the official position of the leadership of the Labour Party, and he was the Leader.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36496288
There have been reports suggesting that many Labour voters do not realise the party is in favour of remaining in the EU.
BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg said several senior figures had told her they were genuinely worried that many Labour voters would vote to leave the EU.
Mr Watson said the "Labour Party is about as united as it possibly can be in asking people to Remain" but added: "The one thing that does concern me is that the polls seem to say that about 40% of Labour supporters don't yet know our position ... There are two weeks to go, we need to get that message out." [Post edited 15 Jan 2021 14:40]
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