| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools 21:32 - Jan 14 with 1073 views | ElderGrizzly |
Which is good news in terms of trying to control the virus. Not so good if you want to get kids back to school.
And of course the Government has bought 30 million tests which are now next to useless
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| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 21:40 - Jan 14 with 1037 views | WD19 |
Are these not the same tests that are being used to mass test asymptomatic people all over the country.
There is a pop up centre opened next to me this week where ppl can pop in at short notice and get a result in 30 minutes. Shops and other businesses are using it to screen staff who are coming into contact with others as part of their work. |  | | |
| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 21:53 - Jan 14 with 1003 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 21:40 - Jan 14 by WD19 |
Are these not the same tests that are being used to mass test asymptomatic people all over the country.
There is a pop up centre opened next to me this week where ppl can pop in at short notice and get a result in 30 minutes. Shops and other businesses are using it to screen staff who are coming into contact with others as part of their work. |
Yes. They miss up to 50% of cases | | | |
| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 21:53 - Jan 14 with 1004 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 21:40 - Jan 14 by WD19 |
Are these not the same tests that are being used to mass test asymptomatic people all over the country.
There is a pop up centre opened next to me this week where ppl can pop in at short notice and get a result in 30 minutes. Shops and other businesses are using it to screen staff who are coming into contact with others as part of their work. |
That's it. They also miss 50% of positive cases. Another organisation using these dodgy tests is the EFL. |  | | |
| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 21:56 - Jan 14 with 985 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 21:53 - Jan 14 by ElderGrizzly |
Yes. They miss up to 50% of cases |
Is this correct?
I was led to believe that they pick up 93% of cases but also tend to give a similar rate of false positives (in other words 50% of positive results are false) and hence why a positive result should always be followed up with a more reliable PCR test.
Does this headline mean that schools are now going to stop the ones they have been carrying out since Monday? |  |
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| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:01 - Jan 14 with 977 views | Dubtractor |
That is interesting. I don't work in education, but this subject has caused me a bloody big headache over the last 2 weeks as there isn't really the infrastructure to collect the specialist waste from schools in the way that DEFRA/DHSC are insisting that it needs to be handled. |  |
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| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:06 - Jan 14 with 960 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 21:56 - Jan 14 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Is this correct?
I was led to believe that they pick up 93% of cases but also tend to give a similar rate of false positives (in other words 50% of positive results are false) and hence why a positive result should always be followed up with a more reliable PCR test.
Does this headline mean that schools are now going to stop the ones they have been carrying out since Monday? |
These tests have a huge issue of false negatives, as they rely on a significant viral load to work. Hence why you miss huge numbers where people might be in the early stages of the disease.
The Covid deniers would have you believe PCRs (the more reliable test) have a big problem with false positives | | | |
| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:08 - Jan 14 with 949 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:06 - Jan 14 by ElderGrizzly |
These tests have a huge issue of false negatives, as they rely on a significant viral load to work. Hence why you miss huge numbers where people might be in the early stages of the disease.
The Covid deniers would have you believe PCRs (the more reliable test) have a big problem with false positives |
Ah, so missing people who have not yet built up the viral load. Hence the repeating them every 7 days and, when someone tests negative they should still behave with as much caution as they should have been prior to testing at all.
Do you think we are better using these tests or not testing asymptomatic people at all?
PS You are presenting this as "regulator blocks" but the headline reads "refuses to approve". Not having read the article itself, are you representing it correctly? Are schools now prohibited from doing the tests or are they simply not an approved test? [Post edited 14 Jan 2021 22:10]
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| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:11 - Jan 14 with 919 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:06 - Jan 14 by ElderGrizzly |
These tests have a huge issue of false negatives, as they rely on a significant viral load to work. Hence why you miss huge numbers where people might be in the early stages of the disease.
The Covid deniers would have you believe PCRs (the more reliable test) have a big problem with false positives |
They do in the States. A friend mother is in a care home. Visitors have to be tested. They had nearly 30 consecutive tests show positive. |  |
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| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:13 - Jan 14 with 917 views | BlueBadger |
| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 21:53 - Jan 14 by Freddies_Ears |
That's it. They also miss 50% of positive cases. Another organisation using these dodgy tests is the EFL. |
Well, it depends on who's using them. Trained healthcare staff using them tend to turn up a 25%(rounding up) incidence of false negatives, lay people as much as 50.
For reference, the false negative rate on the RNA swabs is around 20%
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4744
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52906909 |  |
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| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:14 - Jan 14 with 909 views | BlueBadger |
| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:06 - Jan 14 by ElderGrizzly |
These tests have a huge issue of false negatives, as they rely on a significant viral load to work. Hence why you miss huge numbers where people might be in the early stages of the disease.
The Covid deniers would have you believe PCRs (the more reliable test) have a big problem with false positives |
User proficiency is a big factor as well.
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4744 | |
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| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:16 - Jan 14 with 900 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
So, what are you saying? We should not use them at all or they are a useful tool in checking those students and staff who are in? | |
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| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:18 - Jan 14 with 893 views | BlueBadger |
| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:16 - Jan 14 by Nthsuffolkblue |
So, what are you saying? We should not use them at all or they are a useful tool in checking those students and staff who are in? |
I think we should exercise a LOT of caution in rolling them out. If the school nursing service hadn't been cut to the marrow over the past few decades I'd have been a lot less cautious above using them in schools. | |
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| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:22 - Jan 14 with 878 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:08 - Jan 14 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Ah, so missing people who have not yet built up the viral load. Hence the repeating them every 7 days and, when someone tests negative they should still behave with as much caution as they should have been prior to testing at all.
Do you think we are better using these tests or not testing asymptomatic people at all?
PS You are presenting this as "regulator blocks" but the headline reads "refuses to approve". Not having read the article itself, are you representing it correctly? Are schools now prohibited from doing the tests or are they simply not an approved test? [Post edited 14 Jan 2021 22:10]
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Schools are blocked/not authorised:
“The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) told the government on Tuesday it had not authorised the daily use of 30-minute tests due to concerns that they give people false reassurance if they test negative”
And to answer your question, as a lay person, I would say we are better to not rush kids back until we have a test that works as needed. We should test but with a test that doesn’t give false negative results [Post edited 14 Jan 2021 22:24]
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| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:23 - Jan 14 with 875 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:18 - Jan 14 by BlueBadger |
I think we should exercise a LOT of caution in rolling them out. If the school nursing service hadn't been cut to the marrow over the past few decades I'd have been a lot less cautious above using them in schools. |
I am not talking about "rolling them out". I am talking about the testing currently going on.
1 Is Elder right the regulator has just blocked it so it will now stop?
2 If that is a misrepresentation, is using these tests (even badly administered by ourselves) better than nothing at all?
EDIT: I appreciate your comment about skilled testers. We have admin staff who took 1 day's training supervising us self-administering them. Far from ideal but isn't it better than nothing? Or is it the false assurance that makes nothing better. Let's be honest, the students (generally) are taking no precautions beyond what staff enforce and most staff are taking the most extreme precaution that the situation permits. [Post edited 14 Jan 2021 22:30]
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| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:26 - Jan 14 with 860 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:22 - Jan 14 by ElderGrizzly |
Schools are blocked/not authorised:
“The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) told the government on Tuesday it had not authorised the daily use of 30-minute tests due to concerns that they give people false reassurance if they test negative”
And to answer your question, as a lay person, I would say we are better to not rush kids back until we have a test that works as needed. We should test but with a test that doesn’t give false negative results [Post edited 14 Jan 2021 22:24]
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I am not talking about getting students back into school.
I am talking about the staff and students who are in school right now. | |
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| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:59 - Jan 14 with 785 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:26 - Jan 14 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I am not talking about getting students back into school.
I am talking about the staff and students who are in school right now. |
I’m not sure on that element then, but the tests (according to more than one source) are not authorised for use in schools as of today..
The Government is apparently looking for emergency authorisation to overturn the ruling. So basically, go against the science because they have spent £1.5bn on these particular tests. | | | |
| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 10:22 - Jan 15 with 581 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Regulator blocks mass testing in schools on 22:59 - Jan 14 by ElderGrizzly |
I’m not sure on that element then, but the tests (according to more than one source) are not authorised for use in schools as of today..
The Government is apparently looking for emergency authorisation to overturn the ruling. So basically, go against the science because they have spent £1.5bn on these particular tests. |
Thanks, yes the Government started with the mantra "follow the science" and then promptly chose not to.
I have heard nothing about our tests so I presume they are continuing. I still feel that these are better than nothing for those of us who are going to be in anyway. I understand the fear they will promote complacency and hope they won't, though. Hopefully, their inaccuracy will be publicised enough to deter complacency.
On reflection, your title is accurate because you are referring to mass testing and it is clear these tests should not be used to enable a large-scale return to school. It is clear they are not fit for that purpose. It is also clear that the Government does want that to happen. I don't think it is due to the money (they have not worried about wasting it anywhere else). I think it is more because it is the only option they have for trying to get schools back. [Post edited 15 Jan 2021 17:55]
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