| More Tory culture war nonsense 08:22 - Jan 17 with 4823 views | Herbivore |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55693020
This bit in particular is impressive:
"Mr Jenrick added that he had noticed an attempt to set a narrative which seeks to erase part of the nation's history, saying this was "at the hand of the flash mob, or by the decree of a 'cultural committee' of town hall militants and woke worthies"."
Mob, militants, 'woke' people. Not really the kind of language that a cabinet minister should be using about people that he and his party should at least be pretending to govern for and represent. The constant description of BLM protestors as a 'mob' is dog whistle racism at its finest. The notion that those who think slavery was bad are 'woke' and a threat to our history, when actually things like the Colston statue incident actually made more people aware of a portion of our history, is utterly ridiculous. This use of woke as an insult is also pretty pathetic, when generally it's applied mainly to be people who think things like racism and homophobia are bad.
Down with Robert Jenrick (another who manages to stand out as deeply awful and unimpressive amongst the worst cabinet we've ever had), down with the Tory government, and down with anyone who voted for them. |  |
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| More Tory culture war nonsense on 13:43 - Jan 17 with 682 views | eireblue |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 12:58 - Jan 17 by lowhouseblue |
some monuments also have national significance i guess. removing the churchill statue, for example, would seem to me to raise issues of national significance not just local. |
It seems to me there is an existing process to have buildings and statues gain listed status.
That exists today.
Once something is listed, then it requires planning permission.
So that process exists.
Why a Ministerial veto, and new legislation is required when legislation does exist, and no widespread abuse is evidence, seems suspect. Especially when we consider current status of the country and some of the pressing matters the U.K. Government is facing.
And it isn’t just the woke comment that Jenrick made that is interesting.
“.. Our view will be set out in law, that such monuments are almost always best explained and contextualised...”
So this Minister position is not based on an evaluation of national importance.
Also, maybe silly to point out, not to you specifically, but “baying mobs” are not commonly controlled by stricter planning permission. “ Baying mobs” are largely the subject to criminal law and policing. So invoking baying mobs does seem somewhat strange.
I think if you take into account the language he used, existing legislation, no cite-able abuse of power by lots of local councils, introducing a Ministerial Veto, and current more pressing concerns in the country, I can’t really see how this is much more than a Tory minister playing politics. |  | | |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 13:53 - Jan 17 with 664 views | Herbivore |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 13:22 - Jan 17 by Herbivore |
This is the sort of centralised government interference that Paz hates. I'm looking forward to him letting us know just how cross he is at the Tories for needlessly expanding state interference. |
Having re-read the thread it seems Paz supports this even though it contradicts his small state ethos. Who'd ever have thought that he just cheerleads turds with blue rosettes pinned to them in lieu of any principled and consistent position? | |
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| More Tory culture war nonsense on 13:55 - Jan 17 with 655 views | Swansea_Blue |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 12:58 - Jan 17 by lowhouseblue |
some monuments also have national significance i guess. removing the churchill statue, for example, would seem to me to raise issues of national significance not just local. |
That statue and others like it are already exempt from local council decisions, so again there’s already a process. Seems like unnecessary bureaucracy to me with the aim of owning the woke lefties and a power grab from labour councils (as Jenrick clearly says. |  |
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| More Tory culture war nonsense on 13:56 - Jan 17 with 654 views | 26_Paz |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 13:53 - Jan 17 by Herbivore |
Having re-read the thread it seems Paz supports this even though it contradicts his small state ethos. Who'd ever have thought that he just cheerleads turds with blue rosettes pinned to them in lieu of any principled and consistent position? |
I believe in small government, yes. I don’t believe it should be so small so as to allow baying mobs to tear down public property at will. |  |
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| More Tory culture war nonsense on 14:00 - Jan 17 with 644 views | Herbivore |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 13:56 - Jan 17 by 26_Paz |
I believe in small government, yes. I don’t believe it should be so small so as to allow baying mobs to tear down public property at will. |
How will this prevent that? Spell it out. It's already illegal for 'baying mobs' to tear down statutes, that's why people were charged following the Colston statue being torn down during the BLM protests. | |
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| More Tory culture war nonsense on 14:00 - Jan 17 with 646 views | BlueBadger |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 12:43 - Jan 17 by lowhouseblue |
but opinion is often going to be divided in a community. a proper process won't always lead to removal. perhaps the process in bristol was flawed and it wasn't transparent or responsive to the majority local view - if so that actually reinforces the case for having an established and legally robust process that must be followed. |
Perhaps if they'd actually bothered to listen to people's Very Real Concerns in the first place... [Post edited 17 Jan 2021 14:05]
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| More Tory culture war nonsense on 14:02 - Jan 17 with 635 views | Herbivore |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 13:55 - Jan 17 by Swansea_Blue |
That statue and others like it are already exempt from local council decisions, so again there’s already a process. Seems like unnecessary bureaucracy to me with the aim of owning the woke lefties and a power grab from labour councils (as Jenrick clearly says. |
Yep. Giving a minesterial veto to ministers who have made it pretty clear that they see the removal of statues as being woke worthies trying to erase history is something that anyone with a shred of decency would be concerned about. Let's see which posters seem fine with it, we have Paz, lowhouse........ | |
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| More Tory culture war nonsense on 14:07 - Jan 17 with 627 views | factual_blue |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 13:22 - Jan 17 by BlueBadger |
Or, for that matter, what Spike Milligan had to say on the subject... [Post edited 17 Jan 2021 14:02]
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..although unlike marc francois, he didn't actually fight in the war, did he? |  |
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| More Tory culture war nonsense on 14:10 - Jan 17 with 618 views | 66notout |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 09:04 - Jan 17 by m14_blue |
Spot on. |
Well said, have an uppie. |  | | |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 14:11 - Jan 17 with 616 views | BlueBadger |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 13:56 - Jan 17 by 26_Paz |
I believe in small government, yes. I don’t believe it should be so small so as to allow baying mobs to tear down public property at will. |
Perhaps they should have listened to the Very Real Concerns of these people before they became being mobs.... | |
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| More Tory culture war nonsense on 14:12 - Jan 17 with 614 views | BlueBadger |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 12:40 - Jan 17 by lowhouseblue |
the line i'm taking is that it's right have a democratic and transparent local process to discuss and decide upon monuments in public spaces. what was proposed in the article therefore seems sensible. what bit of that is weird? |
Trouble is, in Bristol, the transparent and democratic process regarding the glorification of slave traders was being sidelined by vested interested who weren't;t interested in listening to people's Very Real Concerns.. | |
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| More Tory culture war nonsense on 14:15 - Jan 17 with 614 views | BlueBadger |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 14:07 - Jan 17 by factual_blue |
..although unlike marc francois, he didn't actually fight in the war, did he? |
He was at El-Alamein and was wounded in action in Italy whilst serving as a gunner and later bombadier(and then gunner again) for the 56th Heavy of the Royal Artillery.
There was a wonderful anecdote he told about meeting a German who's also served at El-Alamein and they both decided that they'd probably fired at each other's positions at some point during the campaign.
A former officer, passing by said 'the fact that both of you are still alive is testament to what bloody awful shots you both must be'. [Post edited 17 Jan 2021 14:18]
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| More Tory culture war nonsense on 14:33 - Jan 17 with 581 views | eireblue |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 14:12 - Jan 17 by BlueBadger |
Trouble is, in Bristol, the transparent and democratic process regarding the glorification of slave traders was being sidelined by vested interested who weren't;t interested in listening to people's Very Real Concerns.. |
And of course as we all know what happened to Bristol after the statue was fallen and a couple of public buildings were renamed it was absolute carna.....sorry.....wait....confused the news with 28 Days Later,...let me check again oh.....seems Bristol is fine.
Of course we should be worried about history, just think of all the wars, catastrophes, epidemics that have plagued Europe and the world, just think thousands of years ago, there could have been philosophy, history, mathematics, medical knowledge and even religious practise that has been lost to the world.
We will never know about such things, best to have some statues now, for people thousands of years in the future, with some contextual plaques, so future generations will have some history, unlike us. | | | |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 16:12 - Jan 17 with 527 views | factual_blue |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 14:15 - Jan 17 by BlueBadger |
He was at El-Alamein and was wounded in action in Italy whilst serving as a gunner and later bombadier(and then gunner again) for the 56th Heavy of the Royal Artillery.
There was a wonderful anecdote he told about meeting a German who's also served at El-Alamein and they both decided that they'd probably fired at each other's positions at some point during the campaign.
A former officer, passing by said 'the fact that both of you are still alive is testament to what bloody awful shots you both must be'. [Post edited 17 Jan 2021 14:18]
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I can thoroughly recommend 'Adolf Hitler: My Part In His Downfall' by marc francois. | |
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| More Tory culture war nonsense on 20:03 - Jan 17 with 469 views | monytowbray |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 09:01 - Jan 17 by Herbivore |
You'd rather have hoped that after witnessing the storming of the Capitol the other day that the Tories might have questioned whether stoking a civil war is really the best way to go. It seems they're taking the gamble that low levels of gun ownership in the UK mean things probably won't get quite as nasty here.
Frankly though I'm sure plenty of people are starting to get pretty tired of being demonised for thinking racism is bad and that poor people deserve support. At some point the tensions this government is stoking will spill over and the more brazen they are in their contempt for most of the population the worse it will get. |
The powers that keep us locked in this cycle will fall and we will reform with a better system. Just depends how bad it gets until the majority wake up from a neoliberal disaster capitalist coma.
Trump is falling and Bannon has screamed to speed up the right wing propaganda machine with wilder angles, at the risk of overflowing it and breaking it entirely, see it as doubling down before Phil swings the banhammer.
I don’t think the majority are ready to live in 1984 yet. Only 2-3 posters here still cling onto their fake narratives of Boris, and those who have fell silent on many matters recently - we see you. |  |
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| More Tory culture war nonsense on 20:20 - Jan 17 with 459 views | Swansea_Blue |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 14:33 - Jan 17 by eireblue |
And of course as we all know what happened to Bristol after the statue was fallen and a couple of public buildings were renamed it was absolute carna.....sorry.....wait....confused the news with 28 Days Later,...let me check again oh.....seems Bristol is fine.
Of course we should be worried about history, just think of all the wars, catastrophes, epidemics that have plagued Europe and the world, just think thousands of years ago, there could have been philosophy, history, mathematics, medical knowledge and even religious practise that has been lost to the world.
We will never know about such things, best to have some statues now, for people thousands of years in the future, with some contextual plaques, so future generations will have some history, unlike us. |
I see you’re spreading the left woke bumfesting propaganda about Bristol, shame on you  . I’ve heard they’re all living off couscous and homemade organic hummus and wearing hemp sandals. Everyone. Even the footballers which is why their form has dipped. It’s not easy to play football in sandals whilst stoned. Def info. | |
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| More Tory culture war nonsense on 20:24 - Jan 17 with 454 views | Swansea_Blue |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 20:03 - Jan 17 by monytowbray |
The powers that keep us locked in this cycle will fall and we will reform with a better system. Just depends how bad it gets until the majority wake up from a neoliberal disaster capitalist coma.
Trump is falling and Bannon has screamed to speed up the right wing propaganda machine with wilder angles, at the risk of overflowing it and breaking it entirely, see it as doubling down before Phil swings the banhammer.
I don’t think the majority are ready to live in 1984 yet. Only 2-3 posters here still cling onto their fake narratives of Boris, and those who have fell silent on many matters recently - we see you. |
Yep. It’s going to be interesting to see how Biden goes about trying to heal America. I’ve heard he’s going to start by literally healing (safeguarding) people through a massive ramp up of their Covid response. Beyond that I’ve not heard much about his plans. | |
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| More Tory culture war nonsense on 20:26 - Jan 17 with 452 views | monytowbray |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 20:20 - Jan 17 by Swansea_Blue |
I see you’re spreading the left woke bumfesting propaganda about Bristol, shame on you . I’ve heard they’re all living off couscous and homemade organic hummus and wearing hemp sandals. Everyone. Even the footballers which is why their form has dipped. It’s not easy to play football in sandals whilst stoned. Def info. |
There were two types of people after the Bristol statue incident.
Those already aware of it who said “finally” and those who had no idea it existed and said “BERT HERSTERY”.
I learned about history reading books, didn’t hear the same outrage when the Tories closed loads of libraries. | |
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| More Tory culture war nonsense on 20:27 - Jan 17 with 451 views | monytowbray |
| More Tory culture war nonsense on 20:24 - Jan 17 by Swansea_Blue |
Yep. It’s going to be interesting to see how Biden goes about trying to heal America. I’ve heard he’s going to start by literally healing (safeguarding) people through a massive ramp up of their Covid response. Beyond that I’ve not heard much about his plans. |
He’s reversing Trump’s Muslim ban on day one. | |
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