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More Tory culture war nonsense 08:22 - Jan 17 with 4809 viewsHerbivore

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55693020

This bit in particular is impressive:

"Mr Jenrick added that he had noticed an attempt to set a narrative which seeks to erase part of the nation's history, saying this was "at the hand of the flash mob, or by the decree of a 'cultural committee' of town hall militants and woke worthies"."

Mob, militants, 'woke' people. Not really the kind of language that a cabinet minister should be using about people that he and his party should at least be pretending to govern for and represent. The constant description of BLM protestors as a 'mob' is dog whistle racism at its finest. The notion that those who think slavery was bad are 'woke' and a threat to our history, when actually things like the Colston statue incident actually made more people aware of a portion of our history, is utterly ridiculous. This use of woke as an insult is also pretty pathetic, when generally it's applied mainly to be people who think things like racism and homophobia are bad.

Down with Robert Jenrick (another who manages to stand out as deeply awful and unimpressive amongst the worst cabinet we've ever had), down with the Tory government, and down with anyone who voted for them.

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More Tory culture war nonsense on 10:34 - Jan 17 with 886 viewsvapour_trail

More Tory culture war nonsense on 09:14 - Jan 17 by lowhouseblue

planning permission and consultation with the local community before a monument in a public place is moved seems very sensible to me. so let the abuse commence.


Does a government minister labelling a significant section of the public as woke worthies, seem very sensible to you?

Trailing vapour since 1999.
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More Tory culture war nonsense on 10:37 - Jan 17 with 880 viewsHerbivore

More Tory culture war nonsense on 10:28 - Jan 17 by tractordownsouth

"Woke" is just a catch all term for anything that right-wingers don't like but can't articulate why they don't like it - it's meaningless. On twitter I've seen numerous stuff described as woke - Sadiq Khan's fireworks with an NHS and EU logo, a Tory MP sending a tweet condemning homophobia, Labour and Marcus Rashford voicing concern over the free school meal stuff.

The irony of this is that the same people who talk how about right wing genuine concerns should be taken seriously, are the same ones that dismiss any left wing worries as "woke."


Ultimately these folks may preach that everyone's views should be respected, particularly when defending racists and homophobes, but what they really mean is that their opinions should be respected and those who speak out against them should be silenced. They don't just want a culture war, they want to ultimately win it. It's not enough for them to have got their Brexit and to have a rabid right ring government with a big majority, they want total domination of the narrative of the UK. And that narrative doesn't include acknowledging the country's chequered past and being sensitive to the fact that things like racism and structural inequality are live issues in the UK. Until those debates are banished from the conversation they won't be happy. And the likes of lowhouse and Paz are fully complicit in that.

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More Tory culture war nonsense on 10:51 - Jan 17 with 844 viewseireblue

There was a very touching discussion of how a BAME person who had received racist abuse and prejudice through their entire career, in Bristol, about the statue and incident.

He would be one of the people that the Minister was insulting.

I see Paz, as usual, doesn’t mind lies, insults and abuse, when they are uttered by the correct type of people.
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More Tory culture war nonsense on 10:51 - Jan 17 with 840 viewsYou_Bloo_Right

Now who do you think Jenrick had in mind when coining the phrase 'cultural committee'?

And in a clearly unrelated matter, this from Wiki:

In June 2020 the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, established the Commission for Diversity in the Public Realm to "review and improve diversity across London's public realm to ensure the capital's landmarks suitably reflect London's achievements and diversity".

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More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:06 - Jan 17 with 804 viewstractordownsouth

More Tory culture war nonsense on 10:37 - Jan 17 by Herbivore

Ultimately these folks may preach that everyone's views should be respected, particularly when defending racists and homophobes, but what they really mean is that their opinions should be respected and those who speak out against them should be silenced. They don't just want a culture war, they want to ultimately win it. It's not enough for them to have got their Brexit and to have a rabid right ring government with a big majority, they want total domination of the narrative of the UK. And that narrative doesn't include acknowledging the country's chequered past and being sensitive to the fact that things like racism and structural inequality are live issues in the UK. Until those debates are banished from the conversation they won't be happy. And the likes of lowhouse and Paz are fully complicit in that.


Exactly - they've had Brexit, Johnson, the Tories for 10 years and Trump for 4 years but still they consider themselves to be freedom fighting victims. Ironically their political heroes come from parties who preach about personal responsibility whilst blaming other people for their own failings.

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More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:08 - Jan 17 with 799 viewsBlueBadger

More Tory culture war nonsense on 09:14 - Jan 17 by lowhouseblue

planning permission and consultation with the local community before a monument in a public place is moved seems very sensible to me. so let the abuse commence.


'Lambert in', eh?

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More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:09 - Jan 17 with 798 viewsDarth_Koont

For such staunch defenders of British history and the UK’s best interests, the Tories and their fanboys in the press are going to be absolutely gutted by how history judges them.

Even with all the might and reach of their propaganda machine, people think they’re consistently awful. And undoubtedly the greatest single threat to the UK going forward too.

The Culture War will be a module in the Disunification of the UK 1980-2025.

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More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:10 - Jan 17 with 783 viewsfooters

More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:08 - Jan 17 by BlueBadger

'Lambert in', eh?


Don't rock the boat, we've never had it so good!

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More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:12 - Jan 17 with 772 viewsHerbivore

More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:10 - Jan 17 by footers

Don't rock the boat, we've never had it so good!


The Tories are good eggs really.

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More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:20 - Jan 17 with 737 viewsBlueBadger

The FSM farce continues by BlueBadger 14 Jan 2021 15:13
Reminder: If everyone could use no nasty names* to describe these people then, that would be lovely.


*Terms like 'picaninny' or 'bum boy' exempt from the classification of Abusive Language.


I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:26 - Jan 17 with 723 viewsBlueBadger

More Tory culture war nonsense on 09:38 - Jan 17 by 26_Paz

Exactly. Government in attempt to prevent criminal damage shocker ... the b@stards.
I was going to leave this thread alone because as you say it will only lead to abuse but just wanted to add my voice to the common sense argument.
To be clear the government aren’t saying that statues can no longer be removed. They are saying that if you want to remove them you can’t just get a mob together and tear them down. You have to go through the appropriate legal process.


They were only breaking the law in a limited and specific way.

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More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:29 - Jan 17 with 711 viewsBlueBadger

More Tory culture war nonsense on 09:21 - Jan 17 by lowhouseblue

i read the linked article about what was actually proposed rather than your hysterical straw manning. what is proposed is very sensible - a proper process for the local community to decide if something should go or stay. the rest, i'm afraid, is in your rather fetid imagination.

but you don't intend these threads to discuss stuff, they just exist so that you can shout abuse at people, so I will leave you to it.


Mate, Paz agrees with you.

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:36 - Jan 17 with 686 viewslowhouseblue

More Tory culture war nonsense on 10:34 - Jan 17 by vapour_trail

Does a government minister labelling a significant section of the public as woke worthies, seem very sensible to you?


i agree "woke worthies" is inflammatory and serves only to provoke a response. it gets in the way of a proper discussion about a serious topic. I didn't comment on his language, which is pointlessly provocative, only on the proposal.

fundamentally what must be right is that we need a process to decide on monuments in public spaces - that process needs to be local, transparent, consultative and democratic. a version of the planning process seems about right. sometimes that process will decide something should go entirely, sometimes that it should go elsewhere, sometimes that it should stay. a minority committing criminal damage in place of any such process is a bad thing.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:36 - Jan 17 with 685 viewsBlueBadger

More Tory culture war nonsense on 09:14 - Jan 17 by lowhouseblue

planning permission and consultation with the local community before a monument in a public place is moved seems very sensible to me. so let the abuse commence.


I always enjoy how it's the people who are nowhere near the seat of power that are responsible for society's ills as opposed to say, those in charge.

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:38 - Jan 17 with 676 viewsNewcyBlue

More Tory culture war nonsense on 09:38 - Jan 17 by 26_Paz

Exactly. Government in attempt to prevent criminal damage shocker ... the b@stards.
I was going to leave this thread alone because as you say it will only lead to abuse but just wanted to add my voice to the common sense argument.
To be clear the government aren’t saying that statues can no longer be removed. They are saying that if you want to remove them you can’t just get a mob together and tear them down. You have to go through the appropriate legal process.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/what-happens-now-boris-john

Some people don’t want to go through appropriate legal process!

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More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:39 - Jan 17 with 673 viewslowhouseblue

More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:36 - Jan 17 by BlueBadger

I always enjoy how it's the people who are nowhere near the seat of power that are responsible for society's ills as opposed to say, those in charge.


i'm very pleased that you get enjoyment from that - but how does it relate to what posted?

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:42 - Jan 17 with 653 viewsm14_blue

More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:36 - Jan 17 by lowhouseblue

i agree "woke worthies" is inflammatory and serves only to provoke a response. it gets in the way of a proper discussion about a serious topic. I didn't comment on his language, which is pointlessly provocative, only on the proposal.

fundamentally what must be right is that we need a process to decide on monuments in public spaces - that process needs to be local, transparent, consultative and democratic. a version of the planning process seems about right. sometimes that process will decide something should go entirely, sometimes that it should go elsewhere, sometimes that it should stay. a minority committing criminal damage in place of any such process is a bad thing.


But the OP, who you were disagreeing with, was talking about the language too?

So you agree with herbi really.
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More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:46 - Jan 17 with 636 viewseireblue

More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:36 - Jan 17 by lowhouseblue

i agree "woke worthies" is inflammatory and serves only to provoke a response. it gets in the way of a proper discussion about a serious topic. I didn't comment on his language, which is pointlessly provocative, only on the proposal.

fundamentally what must be right is that we need a process to decide on monuments in public spaces - that process needs to be local, transparent, consultative and democratic. a version of the planning process seems about right. sometimes that process will decide something should go entirely, sometimes that it should go elsewhere, sometimes that it should stay. a minority committing criminal damage in place of any such process is a bad thing.


What part of that process does not currently exist?

As an example: https://news.exeter.gov.uk/statement-on-the-future-of-the-buller-statue-in-exete
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More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:48 - Jan 17 with 625 viewsBlueBadger

More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:39 - Jan 17 by lowhouseblue

i'm very pleased that you get enjoyment from that - but how does it relate to what posted?


Because that Stockholm syndrome you've got going on there is too deeply embedded so I thought I'd just take the piss instead.

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:55 - Jan 17 with 605 viewslowhouseblue

More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:46 - Jan 17 by eireblue

What part of that process does not currently exist?

As an example: https://news.exeter.gov.uk/statement-on-the-future-of-the-buller-statue-in-exete


that seems a sensible process - what is wrong with a legal requirement for all local authorities to follow a similar process?
[Post edited 17 Jan 2021 11:58]

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:57 - Jan 17 with 596 viewslowhouseblue

More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:42 - Jan 17 by m14_blue

But the OP, who you were disagreeing with, was talking about the language too?

So you agree with herbi really.


what i posted, and received abuse and down votes for, was:

"planning permission and consultation with the local community before a monument in a public place is moved seems very sensible to me. so let the abuse commence."

where does that express a view on the op? read what is actually written.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:59 - Jan 17 with 600 viewsfactual_blue

It is, however, perfectly acceptable for toffs to erase swathes of history that is a bit awkward for them; slavery, oppression of ordinary people, grotesque and lavish spending......
[Post edited 17 Jan 2021 13:04]

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More Tory culture war nonsense on 12:00 - Jan 17 with 587 viewseireblue

More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:55 - Jan 17 by lowhouseblue

that seems a sensible process - what is wrong with a legal requirement for all local authorities to follow a similar process?
[Post edited 17 Jan 2021 11:58]


Which local authorities don’t follow that process?

Why is ministerial approval now necessary?
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More Tory culture war nonsense on 12:11 - Jan 17 with 563 viewslowhouseblue

More Tory culture war nonsense on 12:00 - Jan 17 by eireblue

Which local authorities don’t follow that process?

Why is ministerial approval now necessary?


what was the process before tower hamlets removed the statute of robert milligan? from the reporting it seems that there was no process. (this is just an example from a very quick google search and i'm not expressing a view on the rights and wrongs of that removal).

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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More Tory culture war nonsense on 12:15 - Jan 17 with 551 viewsm14_blue

More Tory culture war nonsense on 11:57 - Jan 17 by lowhouseblue

what i posted, and received abuse and down votes for, was:

"planning permission and consultation with the local community before a monument in a public place is moved seems very sensible to me. so let the abuse commence."

where does that express a view on the op? read what is actually written.


“I read the linked article about what was actually proposed rather than your hysterical straw manning. what is proposed is very sensible - a proper process for the local community to decide if something should go or stay. the rest, i'm afraid, is in your rather fetid imagination.”

I’d say that’s a view on the OP to be honest. Anyway, you do you.
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