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Biden coming over well. on 17:46 - Jan 20 by SpruceMoose
Not all arguments are equal.
The media only cares about the goals and motivations of the media.
Sometimes violence is an appropriate response when you're fighting for your very existence. .
trouble is someone who has the opposite view to yours could write the exact same thing.
comprehending other peoples' arguments is the hard thing. but it's a key part of reasoned debate.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Biden coming over well. on 17:59 - Jan 20 with 696 views
Biden coming over well. on 17:27 - Jan 20 by factual_blue
There was a fascinating documentary about him and his love of music on Sky Arts (now a freeview channel).
He's the only president to have survived forty years after his inauguration.
Even more astonishingly, he's reached the age of 96 having lost his three younger siblings and both his parents to pancreatic cancer.
It's also worth remembering that he spent many years as a peace envoy, in terms of public figures he always seem to be one of those who was often overlooked.
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Biden coming over well. on 18:02 - Jan 20 with 699 views
Biden coming over well. on 17:42 - Jan 20 by jeera
Oh that's interesting.
I hope it was complimentary. A positive piece of history happening there.
Putting her skin shade to one side, which will upset the usual type, that she is also a woman will be too much for some to bear.
Particularly in parts of America. The US has a long way to go in so many ways (as does everyone else). I don’t think Hillary Clinton would have beaten Trump because his momentum and the fixation America had on him, but I suspect her gender didn’t help.
It should be about merit, not colour, genda, disability, religion, orientation or anything else. Just ability to do the job. I won’t see that in my lifetime but I hope more societies get closer to that ideal. Good luck to Kamala Harris. Having read up on her, she certainly has the credentials.
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Biden coming over well. on 18:06 - Jan 20 with 682 views
Biden coming over well. on 17:07 - Jan 20 by MonkeyAlan
Do we need this nonsense on for hours on UK tv? On all channels. We don't usually get all that clap trap, just a mention on the main news about it. The tv companies are only there hoping for some unrest to report. Bunch of chancers.
Your telly not got a change channel or off function?
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Biden coming over well. on 18:06 - Jan 20 with 681 views
Biden coming over well. on 17:58 - Jan 20 by lowhouseblue
trouble is someone who has the opposite view to yours could write the exact same thing.
comprehending other peoples' arguments is the hard thing. but it's a key part of reasoned debate.
Which people assaulting the Capitol were fighting for their lives exactly? These are not remotely two sides of the same coin.
When applied poorly and without thought, all the 'but both sides'' argument often really achieves is to legitimise complaints and grievances that aren't based in reality, while deligitimising very real, genuine, existential struggles.
Reasoned debate is impossible when one side has entirely abandoned reality. Trying to legitimise their position is unhelpful.
[Post edited 20 Jan 2021 18:10]
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
It's also worth remembering that he spent many years as a peace envoy, in terms of public figures he always seem to be one of those who was often overlooked.
His foundation has also helped significantly to all but eradicated the guinea worm.
Biden coming over well. on 18:06 - Jan 20 by SpruceMoose
Which people assaulting the Capitol were fighting for their lives exactly? These are not remotely two sides of the same coin.
When applied poorly and without thought, all the 'but both sides'' argument often really achieves is to legitimise complaints and grievances that aren't based in reality, while deligitimising very real, genuine, existential struggles.
Reasoned debate is impossible when one side has entirely abandoned reality. Trying to legitimise their position is unhelpful.
[Post edited 20 Jan 2021 18:10]
again an extremist on the other side of the debate could say the exact same thing.
certainty, inability to imagine the view of others, and lack of self-challenge are always very dangerous things in politics. everyone believes they are on the right side.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Biden coming over well. on 18:27 - Jan 20 with 635 views
Biden coming over well. on 18:26 - Jan 20 by lowhouseblue
again an extremist on the other side of the debate could say the exact same thing.
certainty, inability to imagine the view of others, and lack of self-challenge are always very dangerous things in politics. everyone believes they are on the right side.
Nonsense.
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Biden coming over well. on 18:33 - Jan 20 with 612 views
Biden coming over well. on 18:26 - Jan 20 by lowhouseblue
again an extremist on the other side of the debate could say the exact same thing.
certainty, inability to imagine the view of others, and lack of self-challenge are always very dangerous things in politics. everyone believes they are on the right side.
Of course they could say it. It wouldn't make it true or worth considering though. That's the nature of extremism.
There's no value in debating climate deniers. There's no value in debating MAGA types who believe an election was stolen and politicians should be hung. There's no value in considering and giving merit to the opinion of a police officer who sees Black people as subhuman. These positions are demonstrably false, based on untruths, fantasy and bias. There is no value in treating them seriously.
You're giving legitimacy to absurd positions. Putting them on a level pegging with actual concerns that can be demonstrated with evidence and fact is harmful.
[Post edited 20 Jan 2021 18:35]
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Biden coming over well. on 18:26 - Jan 20 by lowhouseblue
again an extremist on the other side of the debate could say the exact same thing.
certainty, inability to imagine the view of others, and lack of self-challenge are always very dangerous things in politics. everyone believes they are on the right side.
Yes, let's listen to the white supremacists. I'm sure they have some good ideas but are simply misunderstood good eggs really.
footers QC - Prosecution Barrister, Hasketon Law Chambers
Biden coming over well. on 17:07 - Jan 20 by MonkeyAlan
Do we need this nonsense on for hours on UK tv? On all channels. We don't usually get all that clap trap, just a mention on the main news about it. The tv companies are only there hoping for some unrest to report. Bunch of chancers.
There are so many other entertainment options. Netflix, Amazon Prime, iPlayer, playing chicken on the M25, vigorous self-love, stapling your face to a fence. Why don't you just choose one of those?
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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Biden coming over well. on 18:41 - Jan 20 with 567 views
Biden coming over well. on 17:46 - Jan 20 by SpruceMoose
Not all arguments are equal.
The media only cares about the goals and motivations of the media.
Sometimes violence is an appropriate response when you're fighting for your very existence. .
You say not all arguments are equal, but I'm talking about arguing about anything which isn't oppressive, i.e. the brexit debate. Anything like BLM falls under human decency not the realm of politics, shame some issues are wrongly labelled as politics.
In theory no two arguments can be compared, as it is often related to personal experiences. But what I'm getting at is civilised people need to be able to disagree without getting into hyper-emotional state, getting into the mindset of hatred or us v them and generalising. I do think feel like the media and celebrities have a bigger influence than they realise on people resorting to a herd mentality. I do believe that aside from the D himself, there has been a degree of help from the actions of the democrats in general in instilling resolve in the hard rights views that DT was/is the guy to MAGA in terms of shaking up the whole media is against us thinking
That's pretty much what I was getting at re violence, although its debatable what level of violence is deemed proportionate, there have been some 'ugly scenes'. I just hope that this is a debate which ceases as we hopefully become more civilised...I'm sure a few people have said that in centuries past!
[Post edited 20 Jan 2021 18:46]
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Biden coming over well. on 18:42 - Jan 20 with 566 views
Biden coming over well. on 18:37 - Jan 20 by footers
Yes, let's listen to the white supremacists. I'm sure they have some good ideas but are simply misunderstood good eggs really.
I think he's confusing genuine, enlightened academic debate with stroking your chin and nodding along while listening to the ravings of murderous lunatics.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Biden coming over well. on 18:41 - Jan 20 by smithy91
You say not all arguments are equal, but I'm talking about arguing about anything which isn't oppressive, i.e. the brexit debate. Anything like BLM falls under human decency not the realm of politics, shame some issues are wrongly labelled as politics.
In theory no two arguments can be compared, as it is often related to personal experiences. But what I'm getting at is civilised people need to be able to disagree without getting into hyper-emotional state, getting into the mindset of hatred or us v them and generalising. I do think feel like the media and celebrities have a bigger influence than they realise on people resorting to a herd mentality. I do believe that aside from the D himself, there has been a degree of help from the actions of the democrats in general in instilling resolve in the hard rights views that DT was/is the guy to MAGA in terms of shaking up the whole media is against us thinking
That's pretty much what I was getting at re violence, although its debatable what level of violence is deemed proportionate, there have been some 'ugly scenes'. I just hope that this is a debate which ceases as we hopefully become more civilised...I'm sure a few people have said that in centuries past!
[Post edited 20 Jan 2021 18:46]
I'm sorry, but I can't get behind the idea that Democrats are in anyway responsible for the absurd, dangerous and irresponsible positions the GOP have adopted over the last four years by vigorously opposing the absurd, dangerous and irresponsible positions the GOP have adopted over the last four years.
You seem to be under the impression that the Democrats have been up against a civilised opponent. You should let go of that belief. It just isn't the case.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Biden coming over well. on 18:33 - Jan 20 by SpruceMoose
Of course they could say it. It wouldn't make it true or worth considering though. That's the nature of extremism.
There's no value in debating climate deniers. There's no value in debating MAGA types who believe an election was stolen and politicians should be hung. There's no value in considering and giving merit to the opinion of a police officer who sees Black people as subhuman. These positions are demonstrably false, based on untruths, fantasy and bias. There is no value in treating them seriously.
You're giving legitimacy to absurd positions. Putting them on a level pegging with actual concerns that can be demonstrated with evidence and fact is harmful.
[Post edited 20 Jan 2021 18:35]
why is challenging an absurd position with facts and evidence and winning the argument giving them legitimacy? that's nonsense. climate change deniers have become a small minority because through reasoned debate and evidence most people can see that that position is flawed. use evidence and facts to prove them wrong. that you hold a strong opinion and you're certain that you're right can't replace debate and engagement. proving someone wrong never gives them legitimacy. if you think a view is demonstrably false, then demonstrate it. And people who think you're position is demonstrably false can try to demonstrate that. Chances are that neither of you will ever move an inch, but others can then form their own view on whose arguments were strongest.
this really hasn't been rocket science since the enlightenment.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Biden coming over well. on 18:47 - Jan 20 with 554 views
Biden coming over well. on 18:47 - Jan 20 by jaykay
And they made him give up his peanut farm when he was elected. Imagine how he feels about Trump's business dealings while in office!
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Biden coming over well. on 18:47 - Jan 20 by lowhouseblue
why is challenging an absurd position with facts and evidence and winning the argument giving them legitimacy? that's nonsense. climate change deniers have become a small minority because through reasoned debate and evidence most people can see that that position is flawed. use evidence and facts to prove them wrong. that you hold a strong opinion and you're certain that you're right can't replace debate and engagement. proving someone wrong never gives them legitimacy. if you think a view is demonstrably false, then demonstrate it. And people who think you're position is demonstrably false can try to demonstrate that. Chances are that neither of you will ever move an inch, but others can then form their own view on whose arguments were strongest.
this really hasn't been rocket science since the enlightenment.
You don't come into contact with many extremists do you? Your post is staggeringly naive. Your approach achieves nothing but harm.
I genuinely don't understand your argument. Say I follow your guidance. I listen to them, counter them with facts and evidence, they ignore me, they go on a murderous rampage. Now what?
I don't think you really understoodthe situation to be honest.
You also slipped up and included a capital letter in that post.
[Post edited 20 Jan 2021 18:54]
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Biden coming over well. on 18:46 - Jan 20 by SpruceMoose
I'm sorry, but I can't get behind the idea that Democrats are in anyway responsible for the absurd, dangerous and irresponsible positions the GOP have adopted over the last four years by vigorously opposing the absurd, dangerous and irresponsible positions the GOP have adopted over the last four years.
You seem to be under the impression that the Democrats have been up against a civilised opponent. You should let go of that belief. It just isn't the case.
Not sayign they are civilised pal. But if you truly believe 75 million are completely uncivilised and lost to all reason as human beings then that's a shame IMO.
The only way division stops is when you look at the common interests and try to reason. You cannot seriously deny the media and the dems have never stopped attacking DT as president from day 1, there were even protests after the 2017 inauguration. He brings much of it on himself so he rightly has his critics. But i think the 'he isn't our president' mantra from celebs, some mainstream news and other significant figures hasn't helped in terms of backing up DT's claims of being hatred by the media, the system being against him and his followers.
I supposed some rw extremists could be too far gone for redemption...
[Post edited 20 Jan 2021 18:54]
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Biden coming over well. on 18:57 - Jan 20 with 531 views
Biden coming over well. on 18:52 - Jan 20 by smithy91
Not sayign they are civilised pal. But if you truly believe 75 million are completely uncivilised and lost to all reason as human beings then that's a shame IMO.
The only way division stops is when you look at the common interests and try to reason. You cannot seriously deny the media and the dems have never stopped attacking DT as president from day 1, there were even protests after the 2017 inauguration. He brings much of it on himself so he rightly has his critics. But i think the 'he isn't our president' mantra from celebs, some mainstream news and other significant figures hasn't helped in terms of backing up DT's claims of being hatred by the media, the system being against him and his followers.
I supposed some rw extremists could be too far gone for redemption...
[Post edited 20 Jan 2021 18:54]
Imagine people being upset that a rapist racist criminal had been elected, who then proceeded to do everything that those on the left warned he would do.
Everything would have been fine if they'd just got behind him.
[Post edited 20 Jan 2021 18:58]
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Biden coming over well. on 18:51 - Jan 20 by SpruceMoose
You don't come into contact with many extremists do you? Your post is staggeringly naive. Your approach achieves nothing but harm.
I genuinely don't understand your argument. Say I follow your guidance. I listen to them, counter them with facts and evidence, they ignore me, they go on a murderous rampage. Now what?
I don't think you really understoodthe situation to be honest.
You also slipped up and included a capital letter in that post.
[Post edited 20 Jan 2021 18:54]
i come across lots of people who i don't agree with. i'm happy to discuss stuff with them. i can cope with them having views different to mine without thinking them sub-human.
but i guess one of the great things about the internet is that it allows opposing extremists to find each other so they can create a 'them' to define their 'us'.
it's all a bit sixth form to be honest.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
-5
Biden coming over well. on 19:01 - Jan 20 with 522 views
Biden coming over well. on 18:58 - Jan 20 by lowhouseblue
i come across lots of people who i don't agree with. i'm happy to discuss stuff with them. i can cope with them having views different to mine without thinking them sub-human.
but i guess one of the great things about the internet is that it allows opposing extremists to find each other so they can create a 'them' to define their 'us'.
it's all a bit sixth form to be honest.
You're a lost cause if you genuinely think those opposing what happened at the Capitol are some kind of equivalent to the extremists hunting for Pence and Pelosi in order to hang them.
I'm sure you can cope with opposing views when it's not your privileged White neck with a policeman's knee on it. It's entirely academic to you.
If you're going to conduct thought experiments at least deploy a little thought.
[Post edited 20 Jan 2021 19:03]
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
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