| Covidiots part 385858372 on 13:34 - Jan 22 with 1807 views | StokieBlue |
This area is just up the road and unfortunately the orthodox Jewish community in Stamford Hill have struggled to follow most of the rules since day 1. The police were round there in the early days pleading with people to follow the rules, especially around social distancing and not meeting up but it's not really worked.
I posted anecdotally about this last April from when I cycled through the area numerous times but not much has changed in the last 9 months unfortunately.
It seems to be a specific issue with some orthodox Jews unfortunately. Cases in Israel and New York amongst this community have been a long way above the baseline level as they have in Stamford Hill as well.
I think there are a number of conspiracy theories doing the rounds amongst the community and in Stamford Hill they were recently targeted by anti-vaxxers I believe.
I'm really not surprised about the wedding, just more of the same that's been going on since last April.
SB |  |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 13:55 - Jan 22 with 1763 views | Radlett_blue |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 13:34 - Jan 22 by StokieBlue |
This area is just up the road and unfortunately the orthodox Jewish community in Stamford Hill have struggled to follow most of the rules since day 1. The police were round there in the early days pleading with people to follow the rules, especially around social distancing and not meeting up but it's not really worked.
I posted anecdotally about this last April from when I cycled through the area numerous times but not much has changed in the last 9 months unfortunately.
It seems to be a specific issue with some orthodox Jews unfortunately. Cases in Israel and New York amongst this community have been a long way above the baseline level as they have in Stamford Hill as well.
I think there are a number of conspiracy theories doing the rounds amongst the community and in Stamford Hill they were recently targeted by anti-vaxxers I believe.
I'm really not surprised about the wedding, just more of the same that's been going on since last April.
SB |
I live in an area with a fairly high Jewish population & one couple I know has regularly been having people round on Fridays all through lockdown. They are both highly intelligent people (one is a doctor, FFS), but they just seem to think that the same rules don't apply to them. |  |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 14:48 - Jan 22 with 1707 views | factual_blue |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 13:55 - Jan 22 by Radlett_blue |
I live in an area with a fairly high Jewish population & one couple I know has regularly been having people round on Fridays all through lockdown. They are both highly intelligent people (one is a doctor, FFS), but they just seem to think that the same rules don't apply to them. |
One has to be careful mentioning this sort of thing on here you know. |  |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 14:58 - Jan 22 with 1672 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 14:48 - Jan 22 by factual_blue |
One has to be careful mentioning this sort of thing on here you know. |
Yes imagine starting a thread focussing on rule breakers in one particular community... |  | | |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 15:02 - Jan 22 with 1635 views | jaykay |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 14:48 - Jan 22 by factual_blue |
One has to be careful mentioning this sort of thing on here you know. |
careful what you say, the new kid on the block will be reporting back to headquarters |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 15:34 - Jan 22 with 1592 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 13:34 - Jan 22 by StokieBlue |
This area is just up the road and unfortunately the orthodox Jewish community in Stamford Hill have struggled to follow most of the rules since day 1. The police were round there in the early days pleading with people to follow the rules, especially around social distancing and not meeting up but it's not really worked.
I posted anecdotally about this last April from when I cycled through the area numerous times but not much has changed in the last 9 months unfortunately.
It seems to be a specific issue with some orthodox Jews unfortunately. Cases in Israel and New York amongst this community have been a long way above the baseline level as they have in Stamford Hill as well.
I think there are a number of conspiracy theories doing the rounds amongst the community and in Stamford Hill they were recently targeted by anti-vaxxers I believe.
I'm really not surprised about the wedding, just more of the same that's been going on since last April.
SB |
Unfortunately many religious people think they are above the law because religious rules are more important. The behaviour of the ultra-orthodox is a regular issue in Israel.
It's a bit depressing that we still have so many religious people in the 21st century. |  | | |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 15:40 - Jan 22 with 1562 views | SpruceMoose |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 13:34 - Jan 22 by StokieBlue |
This area is just up the road and unfortunately the orthodox Jewish community in Stamford Hill have struggled to follow most of the rules since day 1. The police were round there in the early days pleading with people to follow the rules, especially around social distancing and not meeting up but it's not really worked.
I posted anecdotally about this last April from when I cycled through the area numerous times but not much has changed in the last 9 months unfortunately.
It seems to be a specific issue with some orthodox Jews unfortunately. Cases in Israel and New York amongst this community have been a long way above the baseline level as they have in Stamford Hill as well.
I think there are a number of conspiracy theories doing the rounds amongst the community and in Stamford Hill they were recently targeted by anti-vaxxers I believe.
I'm really not surprised about the wedding, just more of the same that's been going on since last April.
SB |
Can confirm that the Orthodox community in Brooklyn have been behaving waaaaay out of line and their rates have been through the roof ever since this began.
They can get away with it though because they represent a massive monolithic voting block that no politician wants to get on the wrong side of. |  |
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 15:47 - Jan 22 with 1534 views | bluelagos |
The bit that got me when I heard about this, is that with 400 people and a CV rate of around 1 in 20 in London - that means there would be around 20 guests who are infected.
20 infected people, sat at tables indoors, dancing etc. God knows how many people they might infect but there could easily be 100 more people infected which means someone may well die, directly from this wedding. (Plus of course all the future infections...)
What goes through someone's head on this? What is so important that someone would put their friends and family's lives at risk? I just can't fathom it out, nor indeed those who attended it.
Can only suppose they are not of the opinion the virus is real, the risks of transmission are real and/or the possibility of death is real. I can't see any other explanation tbh. |  |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 15:52 - Jan 22 with 1507 views | giant_stow |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 15:47 - Jan 22 by bluelagos |
The bit that got me when I heard about this, is that with 400 people and a CV rate of around 1 in 20 in London - that means there would be around 20 guests who are infected.
20 infected people, sat at tables indoors, dancing etc. God knows how many people they might infect but there could easily be 100 more people infected which means someone may well die, directly from this wedding. (Plus of course all the future infections...)
What goes through someone's head on this? What is so important that someone would put their friends and family's lives at risk? I just can't fathom it out, nor indeed those who attended it.
Can only suppose they are not of the opinion the virus is real, the risks of transmission are real and/or the possibility of death is real. I can't see any other explanation tbh. |
I can't speak for the jewish bods involved, but this article might provide some insight:
https://catholicsocialthought.org.uk/covid-and-human-dignity/
Sure it'll get ripped apart and I'm not saying I agree with the points it contains - just to offer a little window on how a religious person might be thinking right now. |  |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 15:53 - Jan 22 with 1496 views | StokieBlue |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 15:47 - Jan 22 by bluelagos |
The bit that got me when I heard about this, is that with 400 people and a CV rate of around 1 in 20 in London - that means there would be around 20 guests who are infected.
20 infected people, sat at tables indoors, dancing etc. God knows how many people they might infect but there could easily be 100 more people infected which means someone may well die, directly from this wedding. (Plus of course all the future infections...)
What goes through someone's head on this? What is so important that someone would put their friends and family's lives at risk? I just can't fathom it out, nor indeed those who attended it.
Can only suppose they are not of the opinion the virus is real, the risks of transmission are real and/or the possibility of death is real. I can't see any other explanation tbh. |
The C19 rate within the Orthodox community is quite a bit higher than the London average (because of things like this) so you can probably scale your calculations by 1.5 or 2.
I think all of the points you've raised in your last paragraph are true, coupled with the fact that gods rules trump all earthly rules regardless of a pandemic. The police have had issues with Minyans where a minimum of 10 adult males have to gather to do public prayer. They continue to do it all the time even when it's broken up.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 15:57 - Jan 22 with 1460 views | Ewan_Oozami |
Their god will save them.... |  |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:01 - Jan 22 with 1446 views | bluelagos |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 15:53 - Jan 22 by StokieBlue |
The C19 rate within the Orthodox community is quite a bit higher than the London average (because of things like this) so you can probably scale your calculations by 1.5 or 2.
I think all of the points you've raised in your last paragraph are true, coupled with the fact that gods rules trump all earthly rules regardless of a pandemic. The police have had issues with Minyans where a minimum of 10 adult males have to gather to do public prayer. They continue to do it all the time even when it's broken up.
SB |
I do remember learning in Nigeria many religion followers are fatalists. First time it became apparent was when a driver of mine took a blind bend at speed and when I had words, he told me "God would protect us".
Such fatalism is more common so I understand amongst religious people than non believers. Whether that is play here, I don't know.
Definitely not the time to be putting your life/health in the hands of your faith though. | |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:02 - Jan 22 with 1434 views | bluelagos |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 15:40 - Jan 22 by SpruceMoose |
Can confirm that the Orthodox community in Brooklyn have been behaving waaaaay out of line and their rates have been through the roof ever since this began.
They can get away with it though because they represent a massive monolithic voting block that no politician wants to get on the wrong side of. |
Has it been shown they have higher rates? And has that led to any changes in behaviour? | |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:08 - Jan 22 with 1420 views | jeera |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:01 - Jan 22 by bluelagos |
I do remember learning in Nigeria many religion followers are fatalists. First time it became apparent was when a driver of mine took a blind bend at speed and when I had words, he told me "God would protect us".
Such fatalism is more common so I understand amongst religious people than non believers. Whether that is play here, I don't know.
Definitely not the time to be putting your life/health in the hands of your faith though. |
Similar to India in that respect then.
The standard of driving is shocking.
The busy towns are bad enough but on the roads linking the towns there are wrecks lying about everywhere. Overturned buses and all sorts.
You hold your breath every time someone overtakes!
Like you say, plenty of people seem to think how they drive doesn't over matter, if they're supposed to die then it's out of their hands and they don't seem to consider their passengers might not all feel the same way. |  |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:14 - Jan 22 with 1402 views | SpruceMoose |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:02 - Jan 22 by bluelagos |
Has it been shown they have higher rates? And has that led to any changes in behaviour? |
Yeah, the city was releasing maps broken down by postal code and neighbourhood at one point (not sure if they still are), and there were glaring hotspots in Borough Park and areas of Williamsburg. I actually walked through Borough Park over the summer and it was as if Covid wasn't a thing. No masks, no social distancing. I've not been back since.
There were also reports of mass gatherings at funerals and weddings, schools operating as normal under the radar. The city tried to step in but it's a tough situation. It's a community that really opposes outside intervention and really resists all efforts to integrate. The one thing you could say is that they were largely just spreading it around their own community, possibly. [Post edited 22 Jan 2021 16:16]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:17 - Jan 22 with 1387 views | bluelagos |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:08 - Jan 22 by jeera |
Similar to India in that respect then.
The standard of driving is shocking.
The busy towns are bad enough but on the roads linking the towns there are wrecks lying about everywhere. Overturned buses and all sorts.
You hold your breath every time someone overtakes!
Like you say, plenty of people seem to think how they drive doesn't over matter, if they're supposed to die then it's out of their hands and they don't seem to consider their passengers might not all feel the same way. |
I once got off a bus in rural Kenya. Paid my 65p fare for a 20 mile journey and jumped off after 2 stops.
Bus driver: Your stop isn't for a while yet.
BL: No problem mate, I'll wait for the next one.
Bus driver: You're not getting a refund.
BL: No worries mate, am happy to wait for the next one.
He was genuinely insulted poor guy. | |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:21 - Jan 22 with 1364 views | SpruceMoose |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 15:53 - Jan 22 by StokieBlue |
The C19 rate within the Orthodox community is quite a bit higher than the London average (because of things like this) so you can probably scale your calculations by 1.5 or 2.
I think all of the points you've raised in your last paragraph are true, coupled with the fact that gods rules trump all earthly rules regardless of a pandemic. The police have had issues with Minyans where a minimum of 10 adult males have to gather to do public prayer. They continue to do it all the time even when it's broken up.
SB |
From talking to secular Jewish friends about this, they are of the opinion that the orthodox community has approached this from the angle that they know those in their community, they trust one another, they don't feel like they are a risk to one another because they dong really mix with outsiders and as a result they won't be impacted by this in their community wide bubble. It's also worth pointing out, the orthodox community voted overwhelmingly for Trump in the last two elections.
I don't know if the reported motivations are true, but if they are, then obviously it was an approach always doomed to fail, as their sky high rates proved. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:22 - Jan 22 with 1350 views | jeera |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:17 - Jan 22 by bluelagos |
I once got off a bus in rural Kenya. Paid my 65p fare for a 20 mile journey and jumped off after 2 stops.
Bus driver: Your stop isn't for a while yet.
BL: No problem mate, I'll wait for the next one.
Bus driver: You're not getting a refund.
BL: No worries mate, am happy to wait for the next one.
He was genuinely insulted poor guy. |
Ha! Excellent.
On my trip to India I was told solemnly that India suffers a rather high casualty rate on the roads.
Even in my relatively short-term experience there I could say I was surprised that it wasn't far higher. | |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:24 - Jan 22 with 1329 views | bluelagos |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:14 - Jan 22 by SpruceMoose |
Yeah, the city was releasing maps broken down by postal code and neighbourhood at one point (not sure if they still are), and there were glaring hotspots in Borough Park and areas of Williamsburg. I actually walked through Borough Park over the summer and it was as if Covid wasn't a thing. No masks, no social distancing. I've not been back since.
There were also reports of mass gatherings at funerals and weddings, schools operating as normal under the radar. The city tried to step in but it's a tough situation. It's a community that really opposes outside intervention and really resists all efforts to integrate. The one thing you could say is that they were largely just spreading it around their own community, possibly. [Post edited 22 Jan 2021 16:16]
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Cheers. So for me it reads that there're two issues there.
There is the cultural issue of many in a community somehow believing they are immune to the dangers. (Whether that is the fatalism or other I don't know)
Then there is a failure of public health messaging as it is evidently not getting through. We are potentially looking at a similar issue in the UK with lower vaccination take up amoung BAME communities here. I think we need to address it rather than ignore it, maybe using the right people to get the messaging across. Whether that is faith leaders, rappers, actors doesn't really matter, but if we do nothing, we risk more needless deaths. | |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:24 - Jan 22 with 1323 views | Herbivore |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 15:52 - Jan 22 by giant_stow |
I can't speak for the jewish bods involved, but this article might provide some insight:
https://catholicsocialthought.org.uk/covid-and-human-dignity/
Sure it'll get ripped apart and I'm not saying I agree with the points it contains - just to offer a little window on how a religious person might be thinking right now. |
Yeah, it's a load of b0llocks and doesn't really go any way to justifying 400 bellends living it up at a wedding when nearly 2000 people are dying every day from Covid. |  |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:29 - Jan 22 with 1289 views | bluelagos |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:22 - Jan 22 by jeera |
Ha! Excellent.
On my trip to India I was told solemnly that India suffers a rather high casualty rate on the roads.
Even in my relatively short-term experience there I could say I was surprised that it wasn't far higher. |
When I was trained after a few months, on the dangers of living/working in Liberia, we were told the highest cause of death for NGO workers in the developing world was road accidents, followed by Malaria. And statistically the typical death was a 37 year old man on a single posting.
It a week before my 37th birthday...
Although in Liberia the roads were so sh1t you had more chance of starvation from getting stuck in the bush due to the mud. Google "Liberian muddy roads" for some fun pics :-) | |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:33 - Jan 22 with 1267 views | SpruceMoose |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:24 - Jan 22 by bluelagos |
Cheers. So for me it reads that there're two issues there.
There is the cultural issue of many in a community somehow believing they are immune to the dangers. (Whether that is the fatalism or other I don't know)
Then there is a failure of public health messaging as it is evidently not getting through. We are potentially looking at a similar issue in the UK with lower vaccination take up amoung BAME communities here. I think we need to address it rather than ignore it, maybe using the right people to get the messaging across. Whether that is faith leaders, rappers, actors doesn't really matter, but if we do nothing, we risk more needless deaths. |
I'd agree with that.
The only people the Orthodox community seem to listen to are certain Orthodox leaders. I'm hesitant to use the cult word, but there are definitely some cultish aspects to their way of life. It's a very patriarchal society, if the head of the household says 'no masks' then his wife and children will not wear masks. You comply with the community, or you are expelled. Under those conditions it must be impossible to push back against dominant narratives.
Like you say, it needs to come from the top, but often the top knows what their communities will and don't stand for. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:39 - Jan 22 with 1252 views | bluelagos |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:33 - Jan 22 by SpruceMoose |
I'd agree with that.
The only people the Orthodox community seem to listen to are certain Orthodox leaders. I'm hesitant to use the cult word, but there are definitely some cultish aspects to their way of life. It's a very patriarchal society, if the head of the household says 'no masks' then his wife and children will not wear masks. You comply with the community, or you are expelled. Under those conditions it must be impossible to push back against dominant narratives.
Like you say, it needs to come from the top, but often the top knows what their communities will and don't stand for. |
I think the point is (in the UK) we either wake up to the issue and do whatever we can to address it, or we are scared to address a sensitive issue and do sfa.
I know which one I think is morally right. You can't make a omelette without cracking some eggs and if some people get a little uncomfortable with the issues, so be it. Be all means do it in a sensitive manner, but to ignore it is unforgivable imho. | |
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| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:42 - Jan 22 with 1241 views | SpruceMoose |
| Covidiots part 385858372 on 16:39 - Jan 22 by bluelagos |
I think the point is (in the UK) we either wake up to the issue and do whatever we can to address it, or we are scared to address a sensitive issue and do sfa.
I know which one I think is morally right. You can't make a omelette without cracking some eggs and if some people get a little uncomfortable with the issues, so be it. Be all means do it in a sensitive manner, but to ignore it is unforgivable imho. |
Agree again. I don't know the cause of the issue back home, but I know that over here the people hesitant to break the eggs are the politicians who don't want to lose the total support of a massive voting block. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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