| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? 13:49 - Jan 27 with 1262 views | itfcjoe |
Sure there are other considerations, but just dropping everyone down a year seems a sensible option so that they don't miss out and get a proper full education
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| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 13:52 - Jan 27 with 1242 views | unbelievablue |
My sister (teacher) agrees. Makes sense.
Also, on a somewhat related point, if you were a student going into your first year in Sept 20. surely you'd have deferred? |  |
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| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 13:54 - Jan 27 with 1233 views | StokieBlue |
It's more complicated than that though.
What about the next year coming into school? Would we be delaying the reception classes? How would nurseries cope with the extra people entering and staying? It's a conveyor belt system, just stopping it isn't really possible. There isn't any slack in the system.
What about kids who already find their work relatively easy? Having to do it for 2 whole years is going to rob them of any motivation for future education. I would struggle to motivate my kids to do the same level of work they have done this year again and I am sure many would be the same.
It's a really hard issue to resolve. I don't know the answer but just dropping everyone down a year doesn't seem to work.
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| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 13:54 - Jan 27 with 1220 views | Plums |
Where do you get another cohort of teachers from to cover the new foundation year? That’s hundreds of thousands of kids.
Apologies, I see Stokie has already answered this. The loss of a year isn’t in itself a problem, it’s the rigid curriculum those years need to feed. [Post edited 27 Jan 2021 13:56]
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| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 13:56 - Jan 27 with 1196 views | ElderGrizzly |
This was raised by a headteacher this morning, but seems unworkable.
This appears to be the major stumbling block. 700k kids join the bottom of the pyramid every year. Where do they go? Where do you get the extra teachers from?
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| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 13:56 - Jan 27 with 1197 views | giant_stow |
My kid just isn't engaging with online school - every min is a battle and we're lucky to get any learning in each day. I don't know whether we're fcking it up (not for want of trying) or if our boy is particularly damaged by all this, but either way, this year is turning into a disaster in his life. You get my vote.
[Post edited 27 Jan 2021 13:58]
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| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 13:56 - Jan 27 with 1191 views | SWGF |
| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 13:54 - Jan 27 by StokieBlue |
It's more complicated than that though.
What about the next year coming into school? Would we be delaying the reception classes? How would nurseries cope with the extra people entering and staying? It's a conveyor belt system, just stopping it isn't really possible. There isn't any slack in the system.
What about kids who already find their work relatively easy? Having to do it for 2 whole years is going to rob them of any motivation for future education. I would struggle to motivate my kids to do the same level of work they have done this year again and I am sure many would be the same.
It's a really hard issue to resolve. I don't know the answer but just dropping everyone down a year doesn't seem to work.
SB |
That's it, isn't it? Where do the ones looking to join go? Do we build a carpark in Kent to hold them in for a year? |  |
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| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 13:57 - Jan 27 with 1176 views | itfcjoe |
| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 13:52 - Jan 27 by unbelievablue |
My sister (teacher) agrees. Makes sense.
Also, on a somewhat related point, if you were a student going into your first year in Sept 20. surely you'd have deferred? |
My youngest is due to start in September, if he was a few weeks older he'd have started in September just gone - our friends who have sent kids then have barely had them in school - they are struggling to teach them the basics of 'phonics' and the like. Plus when they did go in, some parents hadn't done anythign with kids so they had to go back to start anyway.
I don't know what happens for those due to start this year, as they need to start, so obviously lots of logistic problems.....
Yep, feel so sorry for those students who started last year, I imagine the intake is lower than normal this year which alongside Brexit and lost funding, lost Erasmus will be killing some universities.
As rubbish a time as I am having, and am seriously demotivated for everything now, at least I'm in a position in career and family life that I'm not 'missing out' on much, some are hugely and it will affect them forever | |
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| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 13:59 - Jan 27 with 1151 views | StokieBlue |
| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 13:56 - Jan 27 by giant_stow |
My kid just isn't engaging with online school - every min is a battle and we're lucky to get any learning in each day. I don't know whether we're fcking it up (not for want of trying) or if our boy is particularly damaged by all this, but either way, this year is turning into a disaster in his life. You get my vote.
[Post edited 27 Jan 2021 13:58]
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Would they still have your vote if you had 2 kids and the second was joining reception this year and had to defer for a year and spend another year at home or paid-for nursery?
You need to consider situations outside the immediate one relevant to you.
As for home schooling, I am very lucky in that regard but I know it's incredibly difficult for many families so you have my sympathies and I hope things turn around for you ASAP.
SB | |
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| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:00 - Jan 27 with 1144 views | hype313 |
What about extending the term into the Summer holidays? say an extra 4 weeks? |  |
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| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:00 - Jan 27 with 1141 views | BelsteadCav |
They’ve got to do this year again.
It’s not like there’s any jobs to go to.
It’s really effected my two boys, especially my eldest who has dyslexia. |  |
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| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:02 - Jan 27 with 1133 views | ElderGrizzly |
| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:00 - Jan 27 by hype313 |
What about extending the term into the Summer holidays? say an extra 4 weeks? |
Children and teachers need holidays.
Teachers aren't on an extended break now, they are all working in less than ideal conditions trying to give kids an education of sorts and most will be working longer hours reworking lesson plans etc. | | | |
| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:02 - Jan 27 with 1122 views | giant_stow |
| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 13:59 - Jan 27 by StokieBlue |
Would they still have your vote if you had 2 kids and the second was joining reception this year and had to defer for a year and spend another year at home or paid-for nursery?
You need to consider situations outside the immediate one relevant to you.
As for home schooling, I am very lucky in that regard but I know it's incredibly difficult for many families so you have my sympathies and I hope things turn around for you ASAP.
SB |
Tbh Stokie, we're actually mid battle with him right now so I'm not thinking logically about other situations - just feeling desperate. Ignore my comment - just sounding off and thanks for the good wishes. | |
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| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:02 - Jan 27 with 1121 views | itfcjoe |
| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 13:54 - Jan 27 by StokieBlue |
It's more complicated than that though.
What about the next year coming into school? Would we be delaying the reception classes? How would nurseries cope with the extra people entering and staying? It's a conveyor belt system, just stopping it isn't really possible. There isn't any slack in the system.
What about kids who already find their work relatively easy? Having to do it for 2 whole years is going to rob them of any motivation for future education. I would struggle to motivate my kids to do the same level of work they have done this year again and I am sure many would be the same.
It's a really hard issue to resolve. I don't know the answer but just dropping everyone down a year doesn't seem to work.
SB |
Course it is, my eldest is due to start this year and is ready for it already - I don't want him to wait another year.
But sometimes, it takes big solutions that no one would think possible to make things happen. As an example, the original furlough scheme would have been seen as impossible 2 weeks before it happened, but now is just seen as normal.
I obviously don't have all the, or any of in reality, the answers - but something big needs to happen with schools. | |
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| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:02 - Jan 27 with 1119 views | Swansea_Blue |
| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 13:54 - Jan 27 by StokieBlue |
It's more complicated than that though.
What about the next year coming into school? Would we be delaying the reception classes? How would nurseries cope with the extra people entering and staying? It's a conveyor belt system, just stopping it isn't really possible. There isn't any slack in the system.
What about kids who already find their work relatively easy? Having to do it for 2 whole years is going to rob them of any motivation for future education. I would struggle to motivate my kids to do the same level of work they have done this year again and I am sure many would be the same.
It's a really hard issue to resolve. I don't know the answer but just dropping everyone down a year doesn't seem to work.
SB |
And throw into the mix those who have been putting in a shift in remote learning and returning good work. Ours are doing similar to what they would in school I'd guess, especially when you take out all the down time around breaks, moving between classes, etc. I realise that won't be the same for everyone but they are supposed to be getting 5 hrs a day of online working provided by the school (probably varies by country/region).
And to what end? The issue surely is only with those who are getting close to their exams, but you could easily lower entry requirements temporarily for affected age groups. More leniency in terms of being allowed to go on to do A levels, temporary drop in entrance grades in unis/colleges, etc. Looking at doing something at that end would make more sense than blanket resitting a year imo. |  |
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| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:06 - Jan 27 with 1103 views | StokieBlue |
| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:00 - Jan 27 by BelsteadCav |
They’ve got to do this year again.
It’s not like there’s any jobs to go to.
It’s really effected my two boys, especially my eldest who has dyslexia. |
What about kids entering the schooling system or moving up?
Whilst making it fair for your kids you're making it unfair for them. Repeating the year is impossible as far as I can see.
It's a horrible situation and I do have sympathies for your position.
SB | |
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| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:08 - Jan 27 with 1090 views | ElderGrizzly |
| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:02 - Jan 27 by itfcjoe |
Course it is, my eldest is due to start this year and is ready for it already - I don't want him to wait another year.
But sometimes, it takes big solutions that no one would think possible to make things happen. As an example, the original furlough scheme would have been seen as impossible 2 weeks before it happened, but now is just seen as normal.
I obviously don't have all the, or any of in reality, the answers - but something big needs to happen with schools. |
As my post above points out, where do you put 700,000 kids?
Where do you find somewhere in the region of 20,000+ new teachers in 6 months, assuming a class size of 30?
Nurseries/pre-schools are already full, so you can't push down either and a lot of private nurseries are going under due to lack of support from the Government.
Something will have to be done to offer extra support, but displacing an entire year simply won't happen | | | |
| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:13 - Jan 27 with 1056 views | Fixed_It |
| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:02 - Jan 27 by ElderGrizzly |
Children and teachers need holidays.
Teachers aren't on an extended break now, they are all working in less than ideal conditions trying to give kids an education of sorts and most will be working longer hours reworking lesson plans etc. |
Exacty. Many are working in school with Key Worker/vulnerable students AND providing remote learning for those at home. They will need a break more than ever. |  |
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| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:16 - Jan 27 with 1028 views | itfcjoe |
| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:08 - Jan 27 by ElderGrizzly |
As my post above points out, where do you put 700,000 kids?
Where do you find somewhere in the region of 20,000+ new teachers in 6 months, assuming a class size of 30?
Nurseries/pre-schools are already full, so you can't push down either and a lot of private nurseries are going under due to lack of support from the Government.
Something will have to be done to offer extra support, but displacing an entire year simply won't happen |
Big problems need big solutions - but you can't just allow children to lose a year of education which will be happening.
It's fine to say what about x, y or z - but none of that solves the problems that exist. There has to be something radical done or the achievement gap between rich and poor kids will grow even larger | |
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| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:29 - Jan 27 with 978 views | homer_123 |
There is some merit in what you say Joe, though the logistics are not easy.
Another factor that no one (I think) has mentioned. There will be a cohort of kids who haven't had a problem with home schooling, in fact (and rather frustratingly as we are struggling a bit personally - I feel your pain Ulla) some seem to be thriving.
Therefore, you could end up damaging that cohort if you hold them back - so any solution that might be put forward needs to consider that, I think.
As an aside, your furlough analogy isn't appropriate here as fundamentally it's a paper and financial exercise. Holding kids back or asking them to do another year has considerable logistical issues that simply cannot be as easily overcome.
That said - possible solutions that could be considered are longer school hours for all, shorter holidays (you cannot dispense with them). That's just as a starting point. You could also then consider 6 day a week schooling as well.
You need buy in from Unions, Teachers et al and they would need additional wages to cover.
Just my thoughts. [Post edited 27 Jan 2021 15:01]
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| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:30 - Jan 27 with 972 views | StokieBlue |
| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:16 - Jan 27 by itfcjoe |
Big problems need big solutions - but you can't just allow children to lose a year of education which will be happening.
It's fine to say what about x, y or z - but none of that solves the problems that exist. There has to be something radical done or the achievement gap between rich and poor kids will grow even larger |
It's incredibly hard though.
Purely selfishly, I know that having my kids repeat a year which the didn't find that challenging is going to destroy them. Conversely I know that some other kids have found the year incredibly hard and have been destroyed by it and repeating it would be incredibly helpful.
So given two totally opposite scenarios which clearly exist it's hard to see what the solution can be. Simply repeating the year and keeping 700,000 kids (EG's figure) in nursery and another 700,000 others at home because they cannot get into nursery isn't really an option.
Furthermore, what are the parents of those 700,000 kids who won't get places at nursery supposed to do about going to work?
It's an awful situation as you've rightly pointed out. I am not trying to be difficult, am just pointing out a blanket repetition of the year isn't going to work.
SB | |
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| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:33 - Jan 27 with 958 views | ElderGrizzly |
| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:16 - Jan 27 by itfcjoe |
Big problems need big solutions - but you can't just allow children to lose a year of education which will be happening.
It's fine to say what about x, y or z - but none of that solves the problems that exist. There has to be something radical done or the achievement gap between rich and poor kids will grow even larger |
All easy to say though, which is the problem. Big problems, call for big solutions etc as you say.
The simple logistics have to be overcome and even what seem like 'simple things' like reducing holidays or extending the school week will never be supported by unions/teachers and probably quite rightly.
You can adjust curricula, you can change assessments etc, but holding back 700,000 kids will do more damage than it solves. | | | |
| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:38 - Jan 27 with 941 views | itfcjoe |
| At what point do schoolkids just end up having to do an extra year...? on 14:30 - Jan 27 by StokieBlue |
It's incredibly hard though.
Purely selfishly, I know that having my kids repeat a year which the didn't find that challenging is going to destroy them. Conversely I know that some other kids have found the year incredibly hard and have been destroyed by it and repeating it would be incredibly helpful.
So given two totally opposite scenarios which clearly exist it's hard to see what the solution can be. Simply repeating the year and keeping 700,000 kids (EG's figure) in nursery and another 700,000 others at home because they cannot get into nursery isn't really an option.
Furthermore, what are the parents of those 700,000 kids who won't get places at nursery supposed to do about going to work?
It's an awful situation as you've rightly pointed out. I am not trying to be difficult, am just pointing out a blanket repetition of the year isn't going to work.
SB |
I don't disagree, from a selfish point of view I'll have mine start in September, save myself a few hundred quid a month for his 'free' nursery, and he needs to start. I have another younger kid as well who is costing me double that at nursery as is under 3 and would also require another year of nursery care.....
I wonder if there is some form of streaming that needs to take place, to move up the kids ready to do so, and repeat year for ones who aren't - again incredibly difficult.
But this can't just be left, we can't just carry on as normal come next September and expect it all to be fine - it's a ticking time bomb. I'm fortunate mine are at an age where this doesn't affect them as they should start school normally this year and a couple of years after that | |
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