| Tragic and avoidable on 09:20 - Jan 29 with 1755 views | hype313 |
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| Tragic and avoidable on 09:24 - Jan 29 with 1733 views | DanTheMan |
Remember when people got their backs up when TalkRadio got banned from YouTube.
This is why I wasn't that against it. They dogwhistle, they know exactly what they are doing but toe the line just enough to not get banned. |  |
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| Tragic and avoidable on 09:32 - Jan 29 with 1704 views | Swansea_Blue |
Possibly not avoidable, sadly. From the interviews with those who knew him it sounds like they knew what a rabbit hole he was going down but couldn't get through to him. It's a common theme these days where large numbers of people will fervently believe any old bullsh*t if it's thrown at them in a large enough volume via the media and social media. And we have people in positions of responsibility as some of the key spreaders of misinformation.
How we reintroduce intellectual honesty back into public discourse, I've absolutely no idea. I suspect even with this sad case, those people who lap up the rubbish spouted by the likes of Hartley-Brewer and Mark Dolan on Talk Radio will be defending the presenters. Because they see them as being on the same side in this god forsaken culture war that's tearing us apart. |  |
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| Tragic and avoidable on 09:37 - Jan 29 with 1686 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
The family are blaming the facebook group but there has to be some personal responsibility here. He was one of them. Unless he had some learning difficulties, which it doesn't say in the article. If someone else in that group had died of Covid instead of him, would the family be pointing the finger and saying he was complicit in the death?
It's tragic either way, of course. I just hate this blame culture - people always wanting someone to blame. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Tragic and avoidable on 09:39 - Jan 29 with 1675 views | BlueLikeJazz |
| Tragic and avoidable on 09:37 - Jan 29 by The_Flashing_Smile |
The family are blaming the facebook group but there has to be some personal responsibility here. He was one of them. Unless he had some learning difficulties, which it doesn't say in the article. If someone else in that group had died of Covid instead of him, would the family be pointing the finger and saying he was complicit in the death?
It's tragic either way, of course. I just hate this blame culture - people always wanting someone to blame. |
People who spread lies *are* complicit. I'm fed up of everyone tiptoeing around these people, they need to be held accountable for the damage they do. |  | | |
| Tragic and avoidable on 09:42 - Jan 29 with 1666 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Tragic and avoidable on 09:32 - Jan 29 by Swansea_Blue |
Possibly not avoidable, sadly. From the interviews with those who knew him it sounds like they knew what a rabbit hole he was going down but couldn't get through to him. It's a common theme these days where large numbers of people will fervently believe any old bullsh*t if it's thrown at them in a large enough volume via the media and social media. And we have people in positions of responsibility as some of the key spreaders of misinformation.
How we reintroduce intellectual honesty back into public discourse, I've absolutely no idea. I suspect even with this sad case, those people who lap up the rubbish spouted by the likes of Hartley-Brewer and Mark Dolan on Talk Radio will be defending the presenters. Because they see them as being on the same side in this god forsaken culture war that's tearing us apart. |
I wonder if critical thinking is on the school curriculum. If it isn't, it should be. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Tragic and avoidable on 09:49 - Jan 29 with 1634 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Tragic and avoidable on 09:39 - Jan 29 by BlueLikeJazz |
People who spread lies *are* complicit. I'm fed up of everyone tiptoeing around these people, they need to be held accountable for the damage they do. |
My point is he was one of those spreading the lies. The family are pointing the finger at others like he was completely innocent in all this.
I agree, generally, that those spreading lies should be held accountable. But if Piers Corbyn dies of Covid, no-one's going to be saying "oh how tragic, he was fooled by others."
If a Covid denier dies of Covid I'd rather that than an innocent person trying their best to follow the rules. Unless of course they're mentally impaired in some way, which allows them to be easily influenced. I mean otherwise intelligent people choosing, of their own free will, to be a denier. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Tragic and avoidable on 09:52 - Jan 29 with 1625 views | Herbivore |
Part of the problem, and we see it even from supposedly intelligent posters on here, is that many people have been willing to legitimise deliberate misinformation and dishonesty within our political discourse. When that happens, everything else becomes fair game too. If you don't start with some basic standards of honesty and accountability at the top of public life then you really have no chance at all. |  |
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| Tragic and avoidable on 09:53 - Jan 29 with 1619 views | urbanblue |
| Tragic and avoidable on 09:37 - Jan 29 by The_Flashing_Smile |
The family are blaming the facebook group but there has to be some personal responsibility here. He was one of them. Unless he had some learning difficulties, which it doesn't say in the article. If someone else in that group had died of Covid instead of him, would the family be pointing the finger and saying he was complicit in the death?
It's tragic either way, of course. I just hate this blame culture - people always wanting someone to blame. |
'It's tragic either way, of course. I just hate this blame culture - people always wanting someone to blame.'
Like in the OP you mean? |  | | |
| Tragic and avoidable on 10:03 - Jan 29 with 1581 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Tragic and avoidable on 09:53 - Jan 29 by urbanblue |
'It's tragic either way, of course. I just hate this blame culture - people always wanting someone to blame.'
Like in the OP you mean? |
Not quite the same - Glassers is talking about holding well-known influencers to account, which I agree with. Particularly as they'll be influencing the mentally impaired as well as those who aren't.
I was talking more specifically, like this family blaming the facebook group their family member was a part of. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Tragic and avoidable on 10:07 - Jan 29 with 1571 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Tragic and avoidable on 09:49 - Jan 29 by The_Flashing_Smile |
My point is he was one of those spreading the lies. The family are pointing the finger at others like he was completely innocent in all this.
I agree, generally, that those spreading lies should be held accountable. But if Piers Corbyn dies of Covid, no-one's going to be saying "oh how tragic, he was fooled by others."
If a Covid denier dies of Covid I'd rather that than an innocent person trying their best to follow the rules. Unless of course they're mentally impaired in some way, which allows them to be easily influenced. I mean otherwise intelligent people choosing, of their own free will, to be a denier. |
The problem is he's been going about his daily business not wearing a mask or socially distancing. Potentially putting vulnerable people in danger of catching covid from him.
And yeah. there are cretins out there who believe the whole thing is a hoax on their own accord. But people in the media and politics are reinforcing his beliefs and that makes them complicit imo.
Same as the anti vaxers. |  |
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| Tragic and avoidable on 10:08 - Jan 29 with 1563 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Tragic and avoidable on 09:24 - Jan 29 by DanTheMan |
Remember when people got their backs up when TalkRadio got banned from YouTube.
This is why I wasn't that against it. They dogwhistle, they know exactly what they are doing but toe the line just enough to not get banned. |
I see from Private Eye that LBC called an actual fascist (a Patriotic Alternative supporter) and asked her to ring in when Keir Starmer was on.
Based on what happened in America and is happening here, talk radio as a concept does not seem to sit well with a healthy democracy, whether it's because such stations are largely about pushing a certain agenda, or because they help encourage the view that all opinions are equally valid... [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 10:08]
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| Tragic and avoidable on 10:09 - Jan 29 with 1562 views | Harry_Palmer |
I'm sorry GB but I think you are way out on this. As tragic as this death is you cannot blame ( and prosecute ) random people just because he may have agreed with some of their views. Do we have any evidence that the people you have mentioned were part of this facebook group he followed?
This Man was 46 years old and as far as we know from the article was of sound mind and responsible for his own decisions and actions.
I have no time for Corbyn but JHB and Talk Radio have every right to challenge and question Government policy including lockdown's. It is pretty clear Lockdown's have a downside as well as any upside in relation to Covid and as such people have every right to question / challenge the policy.
We had in the region of 40'000 excess deaths in the home last year that were non-covid deaths, what do you put these down to? and why do you think we should not be asking if Lockdown policy was an indirect cause of some of them?
What exactly is a 'Lockdown denier' anyway? You are conflating people asking genuine and necessary questions with barmy conspiracy theorists like Corbyn and that is simply not right. |  | | |
| Tragic and avoidable on 10:16 - Jan 29 with 1534 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Tragic and avoidable on 10:09 - Jan 29 by Harry_Palmer |
I'm sorry GB but I think you are way out on this. As tragic as this death is you cannot blame ( and prosecute ) random people just because he may have agreed with some of their views. Do we have any evidence that the people you have mentioned were part of this facebook group he followed?
This Man was 46 years old and as far as we know from the article was of sound mind and responsible for his own decisions and actions.
I have no time for Corbyn but JHB and Talk Radio have every right to challenge and question Government policy including lockdown's. It is pretty clear Lockdown's have a downside as well as any upside in relation to Covid and as such people have every right to question / challenge the policy.
We had in the region of 40'000 excess deaths in the home last year that were non-covid deaths, what do you put these down to? and why do you think we should not be asking if Lockdown policy was an indirect cause of some of them?
What exactly is a 'Lockdown denier' anyway? You are conflating people asking genuine and necessary questions with barmy conspiracy theorists like Corbyn and that is simply not right. |
40, 000 EXCESS deaths at home that were not covid-related??
40,000 MORE people died at home than the average excess in a certain number of previous years? |  |
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| Tragic and avoidable on 10:18 - Jan 29 with 1517 views | urbanblue |
| Tragic and avoidable on 10:03 - Jan 29 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Not quite the same - Glassers is talking about holding well-known influencers to account, which I agree with. Particularly as they'll be influencing the mentally impaired as well as those who aren't.
I was talking more specifically, like this family blaming the facebook group their family member was a part of. |
I am in total agreement that Covid Deniers should be held to account in any influence that they may have had on this poor man.
However, I have never heard the expression 'Lockdown Denier' before. Is this anyone who feels that there should always be a debate on Lockdowns and the misery, unhappiness, mental Health issues, poverty and yes, deaths, that extended Lockdowns can cause?
Wondering whether that would make me one. | | | |
| Tragic and avoidable on 10:24 - Jan 29 with 1478 views | Herbivore |
| Tragic and avoidable on 10:16 - Jan 29 by Ewan_Oozami |
40, 000 EXCESS deaths at home that were not covid-related??
40,000 MORE people died at home than the average excess in a certain number of previous years? |
That doesn't tally with figures I saw the other day. Excess deaths were around 100k overall and more or less paralleled the number of deaths related to Covid. There may be other figures available but 40k seems high, that would mean a much higher excess death figure than the one I saw the other day. | |
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| Tragic and avoidable on 10:26 - Jan 29 with 1473 views | BlueLikeJazz |
| Tragic and avoidable on 10:18 - Jan 29 by urbanblue |
I am in total agreement that Covid Deniers should be held to account in any influence that they may have had on this poor man.
However, I have never heard the expression 'Lockdown Denier' before. Is this anyone who feels that there should always be a debate on Lockdowns and the misery, unhappiness, mental Health issues, poverty and yes, deaths, that extended Lockdowns can cause?
Wondering whether that would make me one. |
If you mean 'is it a balancing act', then of course it is, I don't think anyone has claimed otherwise. But if by 'debate' you mean people like JHB get to spout utter lies and then squeal like pigs about 'witch-hunts' whenever anyone calls them to account for the things they have said, I think we can all do without that, frankly, seeing as that's the whole reason we're in this mess. [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 10:27]
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| Tragic and avoidable on 10:27 - Jan 29 with 1467 views | giant_stow |
| Tragic and avoidable on 10:08 - Jan 29 by Clapham_Junction |
I see from Private Eye that LBC called an actual fascist (a Patriotic Alternative supporter) and asked her to ring in when Keir Starmer was on.
Based on what happened in America and is happening here, talk radio as a concept does not seem to sit well with a healthy democracy, whether it's because such stations are largely about pushing a certain agenda, or because they help encourage the view that all opinions are equally valid... [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 10:08]
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Shutting down discussion in the form of radio phone-ins seems a funny way of protecting democracy.
Have you listenned to LBC? There's a world of difference between Nick Farari and James O'Brian and they both challenge comments which are daft (in their opinions). |  |
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| Tragic and avoidable on 10:28 - Jan 29 with 1461 views | BlueBadger |
| Tragic and avoidable on 10:27 - Jan 29 by giant_stow |
Shutting down discussion in the form of radio phone-ins seems a funny way of protecting democracy.
Have you listenned to LBC? There's a world of difference between Nick Farari and James O'Brian and they both challenge comments which are daft (in their opinions). |
I don't think you can compare O'Brien's forensic dissections of arguments to Farage simply doubling down on a lie. |  |
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| Tragic and avoidable on 10:34 - Jan 29 with 1438 views | GaryCooper |
What is a lockdown denier? Is it someone that believes that the loss of the economy, Cervical screening, Breast Screening may lead to more deaths than are saved by attempting to lock up a virus?
The only people who should be prosecuted are those who insisted that they were "still shaking hands" Those from the NHS who cleared the hospitals of the elderly without Covid test, those who wasted billions on hospitals that could not be staffed, Ad nauseum. |  | | |
| Tragic and avoidable on 10:34 - Jan 29 with 1429 views | giant_stow |
| Tragic and avoidable on 10:28 - Jan 29 by BlueBadger |
I don't think you can compare O'Brien's forensic dissections of arguments to Farage simply doubling down on a lie. |
Not sure I understand - apologies.
Edit: Oh i get you now - when Farage was presenting on there (is he still?). He's balanced of course by David Lammy having a show.
Yeah, fair enough in his case, but the lbc schedule is full of experienced broadcasters like Eddie Mair and Shelagh Fogarty. [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 10:37]
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| Tragic and avoidable on 10:36 - Jan 29 with 1409 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Tragic and avoidable on 10:16 - Jan 29 by Ewan_Oozami |
40, 000 EXCESS deaths at home that were not covid-related??
40,000 MORE people died at home than the average excess in a certain number of previous years? |
I pretty sure it was around 38.5k excess deaths in the home between 30th March 2020 and 1st January 2021 and this is as per ONS data. I don't have a direct link at hand but will try and dig it out later. | | | |
| Tragic and avoidable on 10:37 - Jan 29 with 1396 views | Herbivore |
| Tragic and avoidable on 10:36 - Jan 29 by Harry_Palmer |
I pretty sure it was around 38.5k excess deaths in the home between 30th March 2020 and 1st January 2021 and this is as per ONS data. I don't have a direct link at hand but will try and dig it out later. |
Is that specifically deaths at home where Covid was not recorded as the cause though? I doubt it. Not all Covid deaths have been in hospitals.
Edit: these figures are a couple of weeks old, but the excess deaths at home include deaths related to Covid and excess deaths overall track to deaths where Covid is on the death certificate or where there's been a positive test. It's wrong to say there have been 40k excess deaths that aren't related to Covid.
https://fingertips.phe.org.uk/static-reports/mortality-surveillance/excess-morta [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 10:43]
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| Tragic and avoidable on 10:37 - Jan 29 with 1392 views | WeWereZombies |
| Tragic and avoidable on 10:28 - Jan 29 by BlueBadger |
I don't think you can compare O'Brien's forensic dissections of arguments to Farage simply doubling down on a lie. |
I think he meant this guy rather than Trump's best buddy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Ferrari |  |
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| Tragic and avoidable on 10:38 - Jan 29 with 1383 views | Herbivore |
| Tragic and avoidable on 10:34 - Jan 29 by GaryCooper |
What is a lockdown denier? Is it someone that believes that the loss of the economy, Cervical screening, Breast Screening may lead to more deaths than are saved by attempting to lock up a virus?
The only people who should be prosecuted are those who insisted that they were "still shaking hands" Those from the NHS who cleared the hospitals of the elderly without Covid test, those who wasted billions on hospitals that could not be staffed, Ad nauseum. |
With you on prosecuting the government. They've been criminally negligent more or less throughout the whole pandemic. Vaccinations seem to be going well but that's the exception. | |
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