| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:19 - Feb 2 with 631 views | footers |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:14 - Feb 2 by GlasgowBlue |
Im reminded of something I posted a while ago.
A quick guide to the progressive left of 2021.
Left-wing people in the olden days
Left-wing people used to like working-class people.
Lots of left-wing people used to be working-class people. These people were known as socialists and joined trade unions.
Sometimes working-class people used to frighten left-wing people, but they pretended that they weren’t frightened and were nice to them.
Left-wing people supported working-class people, gave them money, sat in rooms with them and wore badges to show that they cared more than right-wing people, who wore ties instead of badges and didn’t care.
Nowadays
Nowadays, working-class people are bored with socialism because it hasn’t made them rich and happy.
Nowadays left-wing people are middle-class people. Working class people are a big disappointment to left-wing people.
Left wing people now think that working class people are:
a) Simple and easily led
b) Un-enlightened and susceptible to short-term pleasures
c) Terribly sad and struggling, unable to cope on their own
d) All of the above
Education is a life-long task
Left-wing people think that working-class people are unable to think for themselves and require life-long education to help them make informed decisions.
Left-wing people work tirelessly on education programmes to encourage working class people to buy expensive food and clothes and not cheap food and clothes. They are disappointed that working-class people are un-ethical.
Working-class people like to drink alcohol, have sex and eat tasty food. They do not understand that these activities are dangerous and need continuous education from left-wing people.
Working-class people need to be protected from newspapers, even though they don’t read them anymore. They are easily influenced and their happy-go-lucky ways can be turned into bigoted nasty ways. Left-wing people are needed to help them use Facebook carefully and not make mistakes.
Left-wing people like to be sad and unhappy
Many left-wing people have a very nice life, but they like to be sad. To help with this, they choose to be sad for other people. Sometimes these people are far away and sometimes they are nearby, but different to them.
In the olden days, left-wing people tried to make it better for other people. Nowadays, they like to protect them by being offended when a working-class person doesn’t behave properly.
Left-wing like to help other people by being offended on their behalf. This means that the other people can carry on with their lives and the left-wing people do all the work. This isn’t really fair, but the left-wing people seem to carry on doing it, so they must enjoy it. Despite all this effort left-wing people are still very sad.
Again, Orwell summed it up many years ago.
I have known numbers of middle class Socialists, I have listened by the hour to their tirades against their own class, and yet never, not even once, have I met one who had picked up proletarian table-manners. In his heart he feels that proletarian manners are disgusting…he hates, fears, and despises the working class. |
Yes, it's a very balanced piece from the Spectator. Thanks for sharing. |  |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:19 - Feb 2 with 630 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 20:27 - Feb 2 by thebooks |
“The working class have always been patriotic.”
Eh? |
He would admit he was wrong if he knew how! |  |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:20 - Feb 2 with 630 views | SpruceMoose |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:14 - Feb 2 by GlasgowBlue |
Im reminded of something I posted a while ago.
A quick guide to the progressive left of 2021.
Left-wing people in the olden days
Left-wing people used to like working-class people.
Lots of left-wing people used to be working-class people. These people were known as socialists and joined trade unions.
Sometimes working-class people used to frighten left-wing people, but they pretended that they weren’t frightened and were nice to them.
Left-wing people supported working-class people, gave them money, sat in rooms with them and wore badges to show that they cared more than right-wing people, who wore ties instead of badges and didn’t care.
Nowadays
Nowadays, working-class people are bored with socialism because it hasn’t made them rich and happy.
Nowadays left-wing people are middle-class people. Working class people are a big disappointment to left-wing people.
Left wing people now think that working class people are:
a) Simple and easily led
b) Un-enlightened and susceptible to short-term pleasures
c) Terribly sad and struggling, unable to cope on their own
d) All of the above
Education is a life-long task
Left-wing people think that working-class people are unable to think for themselves and require life-long education to help them make informed decisions.
Left-wing people work tirelessly on education programmes to encourage working class people to buy expensive food and clothes and not cheap food and clothes. They are disappointed that working-class people are un-ethical.
Working-class people like to drink alcohol, have sex and eat tasty food. They do not understand that these activities are dangerous and need continuous education from left-wing people.
Working-class people need to be protected from newspapers, even though they don’t read them anymore. They are easily influenced and their happy-go-lucky ways can be turned into bigoted nasty ways. Left-wing people are needed to help them use Facebook carefully and not make mistakes.
Left-wing people like to be sad and unhappy
Many left-wing people have a very nice life, but they like to be sad. To help with this, they choose to be sad for other people. Sometimes these people are far away and sometimes they are nearby, but different to them.
In the olden days, left-wing people tried to make it better for other people. Nowadays, they like to protect them by being offended when a working-class person doesn’t behave properly.
Left-wing like to help other people by being offended on their behalf. This means that the other people can carry on with their lives and the left-wing people do all the work. This isn’t really fair, but the left-wing people seem to carry on doing it, so they must enjoy it. Despite all this effort left-wing people are still very sad.
Again, Orwell summed it up many years ago.
I have known numbers of middle class Socialists, I have listened by the hour to their tirades against their own class, and yet never, not even once, have I met one who had picked up proletarian table-manners. In his heart he feels that proletarian manners are disgusting…he hates, fears, and despises the working class. |
Lol. You're insane.
This is the dumbest god damn sh!te I've read in a long time! [Post edited 2 Feb 2021 21:26]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:20 - Feb 2 with 627 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:10 - Feb 2 by footers |
You mean like the five minutes on Google you just spent researching 'lefitsts and English patriotism' or something.
 |
I’ve posted on this subject several times before. Mostly using the same examples.
You seem determined not to learn form the mistakes of the Corbyn era and seem destined to repeat them
Then you’ll spend the next five years wondering why formers miners in Bolsover are braving the pissing rain to vote Tory. |  |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:21 - Feb 2 with 625 views | J2BLUE |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:18 - Feb 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
It really isn't, it is soaked in the blood of our history and clung to by morons..heh, I know maybe Starmer could show what a visionary he is and push for a new one! |
No it isn't.
On a side note, many years ago I posted on here that I might do my dissertation on whether the British empire should be something we're proud of or ashamed by. I was absolutely DESTROYED. How times change. |  |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:21 - Feb 2 with 620 views | SpruceMoose |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:17 - Feb 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
No-one's joining the Tories or offering the same as them. You can still have different, and better, and more progressive policies while adding a few symbols to the mix to hammer home that you do indeed love your country, as a short cut for the hard of thinking. Labour need to appeal to these types AS WELL AS offering a viable alternative in terms of policies. It's not either or.
You're getting worked up about nothing. |
Dolly, I appreciate that you have difficulties regulating your own emotions when you care about something, but please keep in mind that nobody is getting worked up. We really don't need the histrionics. Ta. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:22 - Feb 2 with 620 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:18 - Feb 2 by SpruceMoose |
For Lord's sake J2, don't go all Paz on me. Nothing of the sort is happening. It's just a discussion, a polite one at that. The only person trying to stir the pot here is GB waving his Oprah's book of the month club credentials around. I'm quite content to ignore him if you would like to proceed respectfully?
Does it not concern you were the compromises are made? Sure, maybe you don't find this a step in the wrong direction, I can accept that. I don't think you and I are aligned in our world view so that's to be expected. But about when compromises are made on the things you do worry about, and before you know it, you have nobody left to vote for? Take Gibbers for example, once his party stopped doing all the lovely Conservative stuff he had spent a lifetime fully approving of, he had nobody left to vote for.
Would your response to him be to stuck it up and vote for them anyway? |
You're talking about stuff that hasn't happened. Having a flag in the background isn't throwing out all your good policies and making drastic compromises. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:24 - Feb 2 with 613 views | SpruceMoose |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:22 - Feb 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You're talking about stuff that hasn't happened. Having a flag in the background isn't throwing out all your good policies and making drastic compromises. |
You are of course correct to point that out. Consider my post a pondering about where all this ends. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:24 - Feb 2 with 612 views | footers |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:20 - Feb 2 by GlasgowBlue |
I’ve posted on this subject several times before. Mostly using the same examples.
You seem determined not to learn form the mistakes of the Corbyn era and seem destined to repeat them
Then you’ll spend the next five years wondering why formers miners in Bolsover are braving the pissing rain to vote Tory. |
I'm not taking political lessons from a man who fcked up on the vote of his generation, cheers.
Maybe spend the next thirty years pondering that. | |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:24 - Feb 2 with 608 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 20:52 - Feb 2 by J2BLUE |
Sticking a flag in the background isn't the same as the food for kids thing and it's a daft comparison.
This is the problem with some of you. You'd rather rejected things like this which make little difference out of some sort of idealist desire than actually get a better party in power who could make a difference. It might not be the pure vision you dream of but it will be better. We're not going to swing from the Tories to the vision some on here have.
It's like the militant vegan who is so adamant anything less than veganism isn't acceptable that they dismiss people who want to do meat free money or go vegetarian etc. Take the ground you can have, get a foothold and then sell the vision of where you want to end up. |
So basically, campaign for change GB can believe in! | |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:27 - Feb 2 with 595 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:07 - Feb 2 by SpruceMoose |
No doubt a Conservative Lite version of Labour will end up in power one of these days and nothing will change, and everyone in the middle will get to bring out the 'Who could possibly have foreseen?!' act. |
...boom time for summer houses though! | |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:27 - Feb 2 with 590 views | SpruceMoose |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:27 - Feb 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
...boom time for summer houses though! |
I'm more of a timeshare man myself. All the fun, none of the responsibility. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:28 - Feb 2 with 585 views | itfcjoe |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:14 - Feb 2 by GlasgowBlue |
Im reminded of something I posted a while ago.
A quick guide to the progressive left of 2021.
Left-wing people in the olden days
Left-wing people used to like working-class people.
Lots of left-wing people used to be working-class people. These people were known as socialists and joined trade unions.
Sometimes working-class people used to frighten left-wing people, but they pretended that they weren’t frightened and were nice to them.
Left-wing people supported working-class people, gave them money, sat in rooms with them and wore badges to show that they cared more than right-wing people, who wore ties instead of badges and didn’t care.
Nowadays
Nowadays, working-class people are bored with socialism because it hasn’t made them rich and happy.
Nowadays left-wing people are middle-class people. Working class people are a big disappointment to left-wing people.
Left wing people now think that working class people are:
a) Simple and easily led
b) Un-enlightened and susceptible to short-term pleasures
c) Terribly sad and struggling, unable to cope on their own
d) All of the above
Education is a life-long task
Left-wing people think that working-class people are unable to think for themselves and require life-long education to help them make informed decisions.
Left-wing people work tirelessly on education programmes to encourage working class people to buy expensive food and clothes and not cheap food and clothes. They are disappointed that working-class people are un-ethical.
Working-class people like to drink alcohol, have sex and eat tasty food. They do not understand that these activities are dangerous and need continuous education from left-wing people.
Working-class people need to be protected from newspapers, even though they don’t read them anymore. They are easily influenced and their happy-go-lucky ways can be turned into bigoted nasty ways. Left-wing people are needed to help them use Facebook carefully and not make mistakes.
Left-wing people like to be sad and unhappy
Many left-wing people have a very nice life, but they like to be sad. To help with this, they choose to be sad for other people. Sometimes these people are far away and sometimes they are nearby, but different to them.
In the olden days, left-wing people tried to make it better for other people. Nowadays, they like to protect them by being offended when a working-class person doesn’t behave properly.
Left-wing like to help other people by being offended on their behalf. This means that the other people can carry on with their lives and the left-wing people do all the work. This isn’t really fair, but the left-wing people seem to carry on doing it, so they must enjoy it. Despite all this effort left-wing people are still very sad.
Again, Orwell summed it up many years ago.
I have known numbers of middle class Socialists, I have listened by the hour to their tirades against their own class, and yet never, not even once, have I met one who had picked up proletarian table-manners. In his heart he feels that proletarian manners are disgusting…he hates, fears, and despises the working class. |
"The labour movement has itself sowed some of the seeds of this problem by traditionally sidelining groups beyond the stereotypical working man. But nowadays more of us are middle class, and middle-class self-interest has also found its way into progressive politics. There was always a section of the left that viewed the working class in purely instrumental terms. They were a weapon to be wielded against the bourgeoisie rather than human beings who required liberation. These types of activists were motivated more by a detestation of others than by any real sympathy with the poor. Nowadays, they are less likely to be seen on a picket line than at a demonstration outside the Israeli Embassy. The deserving poor are over there — in Cuba, in Palestine, or in another exotic-seeming land. Thus there is much less interest in class politics, and this left sits amicably alongside a middle-class liberalism that does as liberalism does — trembles with a slight terror at the prospect of genuine equality between the classes." |  |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:28 - Feb 2 with 584 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:21 - Feb 2 by SpruceMoose |
Dolly, I appreciate that you have difficulties regulating your own emotions when you care about something, but please keep in mind that nobody is getting worked up. We really don't need the histrionics. Ta. |
The tone of your posts suggests you think this is a much bigger issue than it is, IMO.
You said "Starmer Out" in your OP, unless that was a joke. But also the way you're going for J2 does sound like someone worked up. Fair enough if you're not.
As you said to J2, let's keep this a nice discussion without trying to dismiss people with patronisation. Deal with my points rather than what you perceive abut my emotions. There's certainly no histrionics from me. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:29 - Feb 2 with 581 views | tractordownsouth |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 20:47 - Feb 2 by SpruceMoose |
So, if you can't beat the Tories just join them? Many people are also clearly taken in by not providing food to needy school kids and cutting local services to the bone. Should Labour go after their votes too by offering the same as the Conservatives? What's the point of getting Labour into power if they just deliver the same things as the Conservatives?
Sorry, no. They have a responsibility towards the people who aren't happy to just vote Conservatives and then act shocked at why the country slips further down the pan.
It's just another step on the ladder we've been climbing towards absolute vapidity and emptiness in our politics. Why not just stick Johnson and Starmer on Britain's Got Talent and whoever can pull of the best soft-shoe gets to run the country and be done with it. [Post edited 2 Feb 2021 20:51]
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I agree with what J2 said - the embrace of the flag is harmless, it's done in Wales and Scotland and nobody bats an eyelids. The stuff about Labour being anti-British isn't true but the perception has to be tackled at the end of the day, so if it's one step towards winning back voters then I've no problem with it. I think it's time to reclaim the flag from the far-right - personally I don't give a toss if Starmer stands in front of a flag or not, but I'd much rather someone like him be associated with the image rather than a racist gobsh1te like Farage or Yaxley-Lennon.
Of course, it has to be combined with substance, something that has recently been brought forward with Starmer's commitment to votes at 16, and will conitnue to be developed. If Labour starts advocating austerity and copying Tory economic policies then I'll resign my membership, but to be economically left wing as well as countering this anti-British perception will put the party back in step with many of the voters it lost in 2019.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that I don't think anyone is going to vote against Labour because of the flag, whereas it will go a small way towards winning people over so I don't see what there is to lose. |  |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:30 - Feb 2 with 575 views | J2BLUE |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:18 - Feb 2 by SpruceMoose |
For Lord's sake J2, don't go all Paz on me. Nothing of the sort is happening. It's just a discussion, a polite one at that. The only person trying to stir the pot here is GB waving his Oprah's book of the month club credentials around. I'm quite content to ignore him if you would like to proceed respectfully?
Does it not concern you were the compromises are made? Sure, maybe you don't find this a step in the wrong direction, I can accept that. I don't think you and I are aligned in our world view so that's to be expected. But about when compromises are made on the things you do worry about, and before you know it, you have nobody left to vote for? Take Gibbers for example, once his party stopped doing all the lovely Conservative stuff he had spent a lifetime fully approving of, he had nobody left to vote for.
Would your response to him be to stuck it up and vote for them anyway? |
I think GB is more than capable of deciding when his party has gone too far. He returned his membership if I remember correctly. Quite frankly I think he gets far too much stick. He's posted about his Jewish family and that's thrown in his face repeatedly. He's a certain section of this site's favourite punching bag and a lot of the time it's very unfair. Often someone will post something (usually from Twitter) and suggest it's willfully been ignored by the likes of GB. I like to keep up with the news. I read news apps throughout the day and get news alerts and most of the time i've never heard of whatever it is being posted. Sometime the desperation to pile on is really a bit much.
We're talking about a flag. Yes it's staged but it's addressing a myth which cost the last Labour leader dearly. If they start making compromises on things which actually matter then i'll stand up and take notice. I don't think we're on that slippery slope yet. I really don't understand the issue. The compromise being made is so minor that the response has surpised me.
I think some of you have a skewed view of the average person. Anyone who doesn't subscribe to a narrow set of beliefs on here is jumped on. Anyone who isn't fully in agreement is a Tory. I've disagreed with lowhouse on quite a bit in recent years but he's another one who seems to get an incredible amount of stick for recognising that to get elected in this country you need to compromise. Many people are centrists. It's a dirty word to some but it's a fact. | |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:30 - Feb 2 with 573 views | SpruceMoose |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:28 - Feb 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
The tone of your posts suggests you think this is a much bigger issue than it is, IMO.
You said "Starmer Out" in your OP, unless that was a joke. But also the way you're going for J2 does sound like someone worked up. Fair enough if you're not.
As you said to J2, let's keep this a nice discussion without trying to dismiss people with patronisation. Deal with my points rather than what you perceive abut my emotions. There's certainly no histrionics from me. |
I'm sorry if the whistling emoji I deployed did not sufficiently convey the levity with which I am approaching this subject. What were your points again? | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:31 - Feb 2 with 568 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:24 - Feb 2 by SpruceMoose |
You are of course correct to point that out. Consider my post a pondering about where all this ends. |
If Labour do start making compromising policies to become Tory-lite I'll be right with you. All I can see so far is they've added a bit of symbolism to their armoury. Seems sensible to me. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:32 - Feb 2 with 563 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:12 - Feb 2 by J2BLUE |
Which bit are you struggling with? There's nothing wrong with being patriotic. One of the criticisms of your man Corbyn was that he hated Britain. An unfair and silly smear I think we'll agree. Didn't stop many people believing it though. Starmer sat next to him on the opposition bench. This is just part of his i'm not Corbyn message. Something which you must surely realise by now makes him more electable? |
I was more interested in how you separate patriotism and nationalism in the real world. Theory is one thing but that flag of ours has an inglorious history so I would suggest might not be the best way to go! | |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:32 - Feb 2 with 558 views | itfcjoe |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:29 - Feb 2 by tractordownsouth |
I agree with what J2 said - the embrace of the flag is harmless, it's done in Wales and Scotland and nobody bats an eyelids. The stuff about Labour being anti-British isn't true but the perception has to be tackled at the end of the day, so if it's one step towards winning back voters then I've no problem with it. I think it's time to reclaim the flag from the far-right - personally I don't give a toss if Starmer stands in front of a flag or not, but I'd much rather someone like him be associated with the image rather than a racist gobsh1te like Farage or Yaxley-Lennon.
Of course, it has to be combined with substance, something that has recently been brought forward with Starmer's commitment to votes at 16, and will conitnue to be developed. If Labour starts advocating austerity and copying Tory economic policies then I'll resign my membership, but to be economically left wing as well as countering this anti-British perception will put the party back in step with many of the voters it lost in 2019.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that I don't think anyone is going to vote against Labour because of the flag, whereas it will go a small way towards winning people over so I don't see what there is to lose. |
It’s not about what’s not to lose, but about what is the problem?! They want to be the elected Government of the UK - the country the flag represents.
Look how much cut through Cirbyn’s awful remarks about Salisbury had when the towed the Kremlin party line - that’s what Labour are still having to fight against | |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:34 - Feb 2 with 550 views | J2BLUE |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:32 - Feb 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I was more interested in how you separate patriotism and nationalism in the real world. Theory is one thing but that flag of ours has an inglorious history so I would suggest might not be the best way to go! |
It's always going to be our flag. We can keep talking about the past or we can try and be better in the future. Can I assume you'd be up for changing the flag and disowning it because of our past? | |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:36 - Feb 2 with 541 views | SpruceMoose |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:30 - Feb 2 by J2BLUE |
I think GB is more than capable of deciding when his party has gone too far. He returned his membership if I remember correctly. Quite frankly I think he gets far too much stick. He's posted about his Jewish family and that's thrown in his face repeatedly. He's a certain section of this site's favourite punching bag and a lot of the time it's very unfair. Often someone will post something (usually from Twitter) and suggest it's willfully been ignored by the likes of GB. I like to keep up with the news. I read news apps throughout the day and get news alerts and most of the time i've never heard of whatever it is being posted. Sometime the desperation to pile on is really a bit much.
We're talking about a flag. Yes it's staged but it's addressing a myth which cost the last Labour leader dearly. If they start making compromises on things which actually matter then i'll stand up and take notice. I don't think we're on that slippery slope yet. I really don't understand the issue. The compromise being made is so minor that the response has surpised me.
I think some of you have a skewed view of the average person. Anyone who doesn't subscribe to a narrow set of beliefs on here is jumped on. Anyone who isn't fully in agreement is a Tory. I've disagreed with lowhouse on quite a bit in recent years but he's another one who seems to get an incredible amount of stick for recognising that to get elected in this country you need to compromise. Many people are centrists. It's a dirty word to some but it's a fact. |
I'm not here to answer on behalf of the dozens of other posters GB tangles with. I'm not interested in discussing that. I'm just pointing out that his contributions to this thread haven't exactly been filled with warmth and good spirit. A different approach may indeed bring about different results.
As to the rest of your post - fair enough J2. We will pick it up again come election time and see how the cards have fallen then. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:38 - Feb 2 with 534 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:30 - Feb 2 by SpruceMoose |
I'm sorry if the whistling emoji I deployed did not sufficiently convey the levity with which I am approaching this subject. What were your points again? |
Essentially the same as J2's, atractordownsouth's and others - that this isn't a big deal, isn't a compromise of Labour's beliefs, doesn't preclude them from having decent policies and actually makes a lot of sense. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:38 - Feb 2 with 533 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:14 - Feb 2 by GlasgowBlue |
Im reminded of something I posted a while ago.
A quick guide to the progressive left of 2021.
Left-wing people in the olden days
Left-wing people used to like working-class people.
Lots of left-wing people used to be working-class people. These people were known as socialists and joined trade unions.
Sometimes working-class people used to frighten left-wing people, but they pretended that they weren’t frightened and were nice to them.
Left-wing people supported working-class people, gave them money, sat in rooms with them and wore badges to show that they cared more than right-wing people, who wore ties instead of badges and didn’t care.
Nowadays
Nowadays, working-class people are bored with socialism because it hasn’t made them rich and happy.
Nowadays left-wing people are middle-class people. Working class people are a big disappointment to left-wing people.
Left wing people now think that working class people are:
a) Simple and easily led
b) Un-enlightened and susceptible to short-term pleasures
c) Terribly sad and struggling, unable to cope on their own
d) All of the above
Education is a life-long task
Left-wing people think that working-class people are unable to think for themselves and require life-long education to help them make informed decisions.
Left-wing people work tirelessly on education programmes to encourage working class people to buy expensive food and clothes and not cheap food and clothes. They are disappointed that working-class people are un-ethical.
Working-class people like to drink alcohol, have sex and eat tasty food. They do not understand that these activities are dangerous and need continuous education from left-wing people.
Working-class people need to be protected from newspapers, even though they don’t read them anymore. They are easily influenced and their happy-go-lucky ways can be turned into bigoted nasty ways. Left-wing people are needed to help them use Facebook carefully and not make mistakes.
Left-wing people like to be sad and unhappy
Many left-wing people have a very nice life, but they like to be sad. To help with this, they choose to be sad for other people. Sometimes these people are far away and sometimes they are nearby, but different to them.
In the olden days, left-wing people tried to make it better for other people. Nowadays, they like to protect them by being offended when a working-class person doesn’t behave properly.
Left-wing like to help other people by being offended on their behalf. This means that the other people can carry on with their lives and the left-wing people do all the work. This isn’t really fair, but the left-wing people seem to carry on doing it, so they must enjoy it. Despite all this effort left-wing people are still very sad.
Again, Orwell summed it up many years ago.
I have known numbers of middle class Socialists, I have listened by the hour to their tirades against their own class, and yet never, not even once, have I met one who had picked up proletarian table-manners. In his heart he feels that proletarian manners are disgusting…he hates, fears, and despises the working class. |
This says more about you than anything else....truly plumbing new depths.
"Im reminded of something I posted a while ago." Lolz | |
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| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:38 - Feb 2 with 532 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:30 - Feb 2 by J2BLUE |
I think GB is more than capable of deciding when his party has gone too far. He returned his membership if I remember correctly. Quite frankly I think he gets far too much stick. He's posted about his Jewish family and that's thrown in his face repeatedly. He's a certain section of this site's favourite punching bag and a lot of the time it's very unfair. Often someone will post something (usually from Twitter) and suggest it's willfully been ignored by the likes of GB. I like to keep up with the news. I read news apps throughout the day and get news alerts and most of the time i've never heard of whatever it is being posted. Sometime the desperation to pile on is really a bit much.
We're talking about a flag. Yes it's staged but it's addressing a myth which cost the last Labour leader dearly. If they start making compromises on things which actually matter then i'll stand up and take notice. I don't think we're on that slippery slope yet. I really don't understand the issue. The compromise being made is so minor that the response has surpised me.
I think some of you have a skewed view of the average person. Anyone who doesn't subscribe to a narrow set of beliefs on here is jumped on. Anyone who isn't fully in agreement is a Tory. I've disagreed with lowhouse on quite a bit in recent years but he's another one who seems to get an incredible amount of stick for recognising that to get elected in this country you need to compromise. Many people are centrists. It's a dirty word to some but it's a fact. |
I think they gotten rather bored of Paz and are looking for a rather more satisfying pile on.
Unfortunate for them, I neither have the time nor inclination to go ten pages with them. | |
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