| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 10:45 - Feb 3 with 1055 views | footers |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 10:40 - Feb 3 by Leaky |
The problem is labour is losing or lost the support of the " working class" as the working class are now tradesmen , self employed or skilled in some way. It looks to me as the typical Labour supporter is now probably a Chardonnay drinking academic or wealthy thespian. |
Labour is the biggest political party in Europe, so in amongst all the wine gluggers and profs there are millions of ordinary working people who vote Labour too, many of them associated with unions. Just because the right-wing press characterises Labour voters one way is no reason for the working class to vote against their own best interests, but sadly they do. |  |
|  |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 10:46 - Feb 3 with 1050 views | m14_blue |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 10:30 - Feb 3 by chicoazul |
Labour vote collapsed in large part because the Maximum Leader and his outriders were seen as anti Britain and trad Labour voters relished the chance to use their vote to bloody the nose of people they saw as having never done anything for them in 40 years, just as they did with Brexit, even if it would leave them poorer. This is because they feel as I do that being poorer but being heard understood and holding sovereignty is more important than wealth. |
Who is it that you think is listening to and understanding these working class voters?
Boris? Rees-Mogg? Farage?? Gove?
They didn’t vote to become poorer because of some high ideals around sovereignty, they were told their lives would get better.
I do agree with your diagnosis of the problem but they were sold a pup as the solution and will be angrier than ever when it becomes clear. |  | | |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 10:46 - Feb 3 with 1029 views | chicoazul |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 10:45 - Feb 3 by footers |
Labour is the biggest political party in Europe, so in amongst all the wine gluggers and profs there are millions of ordinary working people who vote Labour too, many of them associated with unions. Just because the right-wing press characterises Labour voters one way is no reason for the working class to vote against their own best interests, but sadly they do. |
Respectfully luv I believe your last bit about their own best interests is part of the problem with Labour and the larger working class movement these days. |  |
| |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 10:48 - Feb 3 with 1025 views | chicoazul |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 10:46 - Feb 3 by m14_blue |
Who is it that you think is listening to and understanding these working class voters?
Boris? Rees-Mogg? Farage?? Gove?
They didn’t vote to become poorer because of some high ideals around sovereignty, they were told their lives would get better.
I do agree with your diagnosis of the problem but they were sold a pup as the solution and will be angrier than ever when it becomes clear. |
Garage understands Dave from Hull much better than 90% of the media cultural and political elite in this country, yes .
Edit; Garage, lol [Post edited 3 Feb 2021 10:52]
| |
| |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 10:50 - Feb 3 with 1034 views | m14_blue |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 10:48 - Feb 3 by chicoazul |
Garage understands Dave from Hull much better than 90% of the media cultural and political elite in this country, yes .
Edit; Garage, lol [Post edited 3 Feb 2021 10:52]
|
He understands how to manipulate him into voting a certain way.
He has no understanding whatsoever, nor any interest in how to actually make his life better.
The media and political elite were almost universally pro brexit, don’t understand how people still peddle the myth otherwise. It’s either a fundamental misunderstanding or deliberately misleading. | | | |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 10:51 - Feb 3 with 1013 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 10:46 - Feb 3 by chicoazul |
Respectfully luv I believe your last bit about their own best interests is part of the problem with Labour and the larger working class movement these days. |
‘They’re too thick to work out their own best interests...they shouldn’t even be allowed a vote etc’ |  |
| |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 10:55 - Feb 3 with 997 views | chicoazul |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 10:50 - Feb 3 by m14_blue |
He understands how to manipulate him into voting a certain way.
He has no understanding whatsoever, nor any interest in how to actually make his life better.
The media and political elite were almost universally pro brexit, don’t understand how people still peddle the myth otherwise. It’s either a fundamental misunderstanding or deliberately misleading. |
The political elite were almost entirely anti. Labour Conservative Lib Dem greens all were united in campaigning against it during the campaign. | |
| |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 10:58 - Feb 3 with 1001 views | m14_blue |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 10:55 - Feb 3 by chicoazul |
The political elite were almost entirely anti. Labour Conservative Lib Dem greens all were united in campaigning against it during the campaign. |
Ah, well if you mean MP’s then yes, you’re right.
I’m not sure I would consider my local MP, living in her terraced Lancastrian house, part of the ‘elite’ though. Part of the establishment maybe. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 11:00 - Feb 3 with 996 views | vapour_trail |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 10:43 - Feb 3 by chicoazul |
I believe there’s a good chance of that yes, and they didn’t care.
Edit; same with Scots independence [Post edited 3 Feb 2021 10:44]
|
Nah. People have been overwhelmingly sold a prosperous future, not a shrinking economy. |  |
| |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 11:04 - Feb 3 with 962 views | chicoazul |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 11:00 - Feb 3 by vapour_trail |
Nah. People have been overwhelmingly sold a prosperous future, not a shrinking economy. |
And everyone shouted from the rooftops that Brexit would be bad, most especially for the people who voted for it, but those people did it anyway. You may be right in part in that some of them were “sold a pup” but I believe in giving people more credit. They thought about it, considered the opportunity cost, and voted for it anyway. People who keep telling them they’re thick did/do the likes of Farages job for them. | |
| |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 11:07 - Feb 3 with 966 views | footers |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 11:04 - Feb 3 by chicoazul |
And everyone shouted from the rooftops that Brexit would be bad, most especially for the people who voted for it, but those people did it anyway. You may be right in part in that some of them were “sold a pup” but I believe in giving people more credit. They thought about it, considered the opportunity cost, and voted for it anyway. People who keep telling them they’re thick did/do the likes of Farages job for them. |
Given the number of searches for 'what is the EU' on the day after the vote, I'm not so sure that everyone was as clued up as you believe. It would've taken someone with an enormous political knowledge to fully understand the implications of Brexit before the vote, so I'd argue only a handful of people truly understood it in the first place. | |
| |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 11:09 - Feb 3 with 956 views | vapour_trail |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 11:04 - Feb 3 by chicoazul |
And everyone shouted from the rooftops that Brexit would be bad, most especially for the people who voted for it, but those people did it anyway. You may be right in part in that some of them were “sold a pup” but I believe in giving people more credit. They thought about it, considered the opportunity cost, and voted for it anyway. People who keep telling them they’re thick did/do the likes of Farages job for them. |
I didn’t say they were sold a pup. Perhaps it will deliver a dividend.
But i don’t believe people voted for negative economic outcomes. IMHO the vast majority of brexit voters did so believing the pre-referendum propositions of Leave, not Remain, and that was that brexit would deliver a financial boost to the Uk. | |
| |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 11:10 - Feb 3 with 951 views | m14_blue |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 11:04 - Feb 3 by chicoazul |
And everyone shouted from the rooftops that Brexit would be bad, most especially for the people who voted for it, but those people did it anyway. You may be right in part in that some of them were “sold a pup” but I believe in giving people more credit. They thought about it, considered the opportunity cost, and voted for it anyway. People who keep telling them they’re thick did/do the likes of Farages job for them. |
They’re not thick, they put their trust in the wrong people. I think you’re quite right in your diagnosis of why that happened, years of disillusionment and being left behind by governments of all colours.
I do think it’s hugely rewriting history to claim that brexit voters knew they would make themselves poorer. I live up here in the Red wall and that isn’t something I have seen suggested at any point in the last 4 years and it definitely 100% was not the mood music in 2016. | | | |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 11:12 - Feb 3 with 947 views | Leaky |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 10:45 - Feb 3 by footers |
Labour is the biggest political party in Europe, so in amongst all the wine gluggers and profs there are millions of ordinary working people who vote Labour too, many of them associated with unions. Just because the right-wing press characterises Labour voters one way is no reason for the working class to vote against their own best interests, but sadly they do. |
I think you identified labours problem, it attracts lots of members but not many voters. I also feel the idea of having working class, middle class & upper class is out of date. I get my hands dirty for a living however I don't put myself in any class. I am just British. Mind you I did love the John Cleese & the two Ronnie's sketch about the class system back in the 60's. |  | | |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 22:10 - Feb 3 with 854 views | monytowbray |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:19 - Feb 2 by footers |
Yes, it's a very balanced piece from the Spectator. Thanks for sharing. |
If he managed to spend that much time addressing the literal cronyism & fascism he enables/promotes rather than continually shouting “BUT THE LEFT” we could change the world for the better.
2020 could have been such a learning curve for him. |  |
| |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 22:15 - Feb 3 with 847 views | monytowbray |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 21:32 - Feb 2 by itfcjoe |
It’s not about what’s not to lose, but about what is the problem?! They want to be the elected Government of the UK - the country the flag represents.
Look how much cut through Cirbyn’s awful remarks about Salisbury had when the towed the Kremlin party line - that’s what Labour are still having to fight against |
If the Kremlin scares you wait until you find out what the Tories are really up to. | |
| |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 22:18 - Feb 3 with 849 views | J2BLUE |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 22:15 - Feb 3 by monytowbray |
If the Kremlin scares you wait until you find out what the Tories are really up to. |
Go on then, spell it out for us. In detail if you wouldn't mind. |  |
| |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 22:29 - Feb 3 with 825 views | monytowbray |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 10:40 - Feb 3 by Leaky |
The problem is labour is losing or lost the support of the " working class" as the working class are now tradesmen , self employed or skilled in some way. It looks to me as the typical Labour supporter is now probably a Chardonnay drinking academic or wealthy thespian. |
The Tories speaking about classes still like it’s 1970.
In case you’ve not tuned in since the 80s there are only two classes - us and them. The 99% vs the 1%.
We are ruled by corporate lobbying yet somehow a generally comfortable generation of Boomers and Xers have convinced themselves they are also the elite or the elite at least have their ambitions at heart.
If you are tied to the idea of who the best ‘neolib suit subject to corporate influence’ to rule is then you’ve also probably failed to notice we’re getting to a boiling point with the climate crisis and global recessions in swing.
Democracies are crumbling at the seams with lies, corruption and misinformation networks funded by a billionaire network of Nazis in all but name, and corporations are giving them this sensitive information to determine the best way to radicalise your support via algorithms completely prioritised for profit.
So we either progress with human rights globally and more equality to save the planet, or we consolidate all power into a small handful of corporations/authoritarians, many of which will drill the last drop of oil on earth if it was worth a few quid.
Now really is time to pick a side. If you go with the latter you’ll end up losing sooner or later. Doesn’t matter who runs the UK when we have no food, half the country is flooded and you’re an eco refugee on your own land.
But nah, look, flag shaggers. [Post edited 4 Feb 2021 1:41]
| |
| |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 22:31 - Feb 3 with 828 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 22:10 - Feb 3 by monytowbray |
If he managed to spend that much time addressing the literal cronyism & fascism he enables/promotes rather than continually shouting “BUT THE LEFT” we could change the world for the better.
2020 could have been such a learning curve for him. |
Did my head in that did. I hadn't twigged it was from the Spectator last night. The most patronising, childish, gaslighting piece of sh*te I've ever seen. No wonder we're fecked if that's seen as a sensible contribution to whatever the debate is. Not sure why Glassers was posting it - trolling I suspect, or believes it? I'm not sure which scenario is worse. |  |
| |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 22:34 - Feb 3 with 816 views | monytowbray |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 22:18 - Feb 3 by J2BLUE |
Go on then, spell it out for us. In detail if you wouldn't mind. |
https://bylinetimes.com/byline-times-box-sets/box-set-on-russian-interference/
Also worth looking up book ‘The Foundations of Geopolitics’.
There’s a reason why our Russian report was hidden so long and then largely buried, the USA are much further down the road with this one. | |
| |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 22:37 - Feb 3 with 810 views | monytowbray |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 22:31 - Feb 3 by Swansea_Blue |
Did my head in that did. I hadn't twigged it was from the Spectator last night. The most patronising, childish, gaslighting piece of sh*te I've ever seen. No wonder we're fecked if that's seen as a sensible contribution to whatever the debate is. Not sure why Glassers was posting it - trolling I suspect, or believes it? I'm not sure which scenario is worse. |
Remember when his avatar was the front cover of the Spectator and the Brexit Butterfly.
His inability to own his own poor choices or grow make his opinions beyond parody. | |
| |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 22:40 - Feb 3 with 812 views | Churchman |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 22:15 - Feb 3 by monytowbray |
If the Kremlin scares you wait until you find out what the Tories are really up to. |
The Russians have in recent years swallowed up part of another country against international law (Ukraine), conducted assignation attempts in the U.K. there is no debate about that. It happened. They have beaten and arrested how many of their own citizens in the last week? They poisoned a man on an aeroplane then arrested him on his return from Germany for overstaying his parole.
You could argue that he had a fair trial because that was the judgement.1000s would have convicted him faced with the other option of time to rethink my decision or a new 6 foot hole in the ground to live in.
So please tell me what the tories are really up to and what’s scary about them by comparison? I’m genuinely intrigued. |  | | |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 22:43 - Feb 3 with 809 views | J2BLUE |
Cheers I will have a read. | |
| |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 23:08 - Feb 3 with 774 views | SpruceMoose |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 22:31 - Feb 3 by Swansea_Blue |
Did my head in that did. I hadn't twigged it was from the Spectator last night. The most patronising, childish, gaslighting piece of sh*te I've ever seen. No wonder we're fecked if that's seen as a sensible contribution to whatever the debate is. Not sure why Glassers was posting it - trolling I suspect, or believes it? I'm not sure which scenario is worse. |
For me at least, right around the Middle Class White Boys debacle I made the decision that I just can't take the things he says about politics seriously. At all. He is lost in the weeds.
Over the BLM protest period he seemed quite prepared to push insulting and dangerous Twitter posts on here, posts which amounted to little more than conspiracy theories when all was said and done. I still dont really understand why he chose to parrot the main MAGA talking point.
Additionally, it was utterly absurd that someone 3,500 thousand miles away was desperately trawling Twitter every night of the protests for wildly edited video clips, in order to try and tell me, the bloke who could take a short stroll and actually be in the thick of it, that I didn't understand or know what was going on in my own city. It was an embarrassing hill to die on.
That cringey stuff he posted yesterday from the Spectator gave me a good laugh though. That's the kind of A+ material I'm here for since I didn't get to see my crazy Boomer relatives at Christmas! [Post edited 4 Feb 2021 1:35]
|  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 23:20 - Feb 3 with 756 views | tractordownsouth |
| Well well well. Flag and patriotrism eh? on 22:31 - Feb 3 by Swansea_Blue |
Did my head in that did. I hadn't twigged it was from the Spectator last night. The most patronising, childish, gaslighting piece of sh*te I've ever seen. No wonder we're fecked if that's seen as a sensible contribution to whatever the debate is. Not sure why Glassers was posting it - trolling I suspect, or believes it? I'm not sure which scenario is worse. |
That Spectator piece was odd. It's a common trait among right-wing commentators - they believe that all conservatives have been looked down upon and stereotyped and so their solution is to look down upon and make stereotypes of liberals. They're essentially implying that everyone who isn't taken in by right-wing demagoguery is a latte-drinking metropolitan elitist - it's bizarre. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
