| Vaccine Passports .... 15:19 - Feb 23 with 3651 views | Crawfordsboot |
Are they discriminatory against those who don't want a vaccine, and/or those who can't have a vaccine?
Are those who refuse a vaccination right to argue civil liberty defence or are they selfish busteds who ignore their moral responsibility to society?
Would civil liberty vaccine refusers also expect the right to drive through a town centre at 100 mph? |  | | |  |
| Vaccine Passports .... on 17:29 - Feb 23 with 583 views | Basuco |
| Vaccine Passports .... on 17:13 - Feb 23 by The_Romford_Blue |
I think making them compulsory is a bad route to take.
I’m likely to have the vaccine (95% likely) but a very close friend of mine says he won’t be having it. His primary reason being that it’s completely unproven to have no long term consequences. Which is true tbf.
Denying him from being part of society because of that is wrong imo. I don’t like the precedent it sets. |
The AZ Oxford vaccine was used to deliver Ebola vaccine n Africa in 2019, the Ebola part was replaced with a Covid protein, so the main delivery part of the vaccine does have two or more years of use, still pretty short period of time I know but it has been very widely used. |  | | |
| Vaccine Passports .... on 17:33 - Feb 23 with 576 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Vaccine Passports .... on 17:20 - Feb 23 by m14_blue |
Why does he think it might have long term consequences?
What’s this based on? The cleverest people in the field are confident that it won’t. |
It’s not that he necessarily expecting there to be long term consequences but more that it quite possibly could be - because it’s untested.
I don’t personally agree with him that the risk of catching the virus is outweighed by the risk of injecting it deliberately with an untested long term vaccine but I can definitely see his argument.
Punishing people with that view is just not the way it should be. It’s a dangerous precedent to set imo. What next after this? We deliberately block travel from countries for the next 10 years if the person hasn’t had the vaccine? We make them all live in one city? I don’t know really but I don’t like the idea of a vaccine passport at all.
Not that it’s likely to affect me anyway as I’d be extremely confident I’ll have it. Just thought it was worth bringing to the discussion/thread. |  |
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| Vaccine Passports .... on 17:37 - Feb 23 with 572 views | jeera |
| Vaccine Passports .... on 17:13 - Feb 23 by The_Romford_Blue |
I think making them compulsory is a bad route to take.
I’m likely to have the vaccine (95% likely) but a very close friend of mine says he won’t be having it. His primary reason being that it’s completely unproven to have no long term consequences. Which is true tbf.
Denying him from being part of society because of that is wrong imo. I don’t like the precedent it sets. |
I wonder if your mate has heard of SmallPox, Measles, Polio and the like.
The vaccines for those had to start with someone somewhere.
If we all had his attitude then what, constant lockdowns for the rest of his life, or does he think we should all take our chances whilst he's protected by everyone else?
He's excluding himself with his selfishness, not the other way around.
They cannot be made compulsory of course, but you cannot be allowed to enter some countries if you may be carrying a disease. And if restricts his movements elsewhere too then so be it.
Why should other people die for his freedom to choose? |  |
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| Vaccine Passports .... on 17:48 - Feb 23 with 553 views | StokieBlue |
| Vaccine Passports .... on 17:13 - Feb 23 by The_Romford_Blue |
I think making them compulsory is a bad route to take.
I’m likely to have the vaccine (95% likely) but a very close friend of mine says he won’t be having it. His primary reason being that it’s completely unproven to have no long term consequences. Which is true tbf.
Denying him from being part of society because of that is wrong imo. I don’t like the precedent it sets. |
The same point can be made about lots of things in daily life though. Does he take any supplements for instance? They have virtually no regulation in comparison to vaccines and in fact in the US the law was lobbied and changed so they don't even have to be approved by the FDA. Does he make the same case for medicines prescribed by the doctor?
As a counter to your argument as purely as a thought exercise, why should every else take the risk which he thinks is too great for him to take in order for him to enjoy his social life? If everyone follows his lead and says it's too risky then we are stuck in perpetual lockdowns.
SB [Post edited 23 Feb 2021 17:49]
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| Vaccine Passports .... on 17:48 - Feb 23 with 547 views | bluelagos |
| Vaccine Passports .... on 17:33 - Feb 23 by The_Romford_Blue |
It’s not that he necessarily expecting there to be long term consequences but more that it quite possibly could be - because it’s untested.
I don’t personally agree with him that the risk of catching the virus is outweighed by the risk of injecting it deliberately with an untested long term vaccine but I can definitely see his argument.
Punishing people with that view is just not the way it should be. It’s a dangerous precedent to set imo. What next after this? We deliberately block travel from countries for the next 10 years if the person hasn’t had the vaccine? We make them all live in one city? I don’t know really but I don’t like the idea of a vaccine passport at all.
Not that it’s likely to affect me anyway as I’d be extremely confident I’ll have it. Just thought it was worth bringing to the discussion/thread. |
Where will it go? Fiik
I don't see people getting rounded up - put on in a city who we don't approve of. I mean that sort of thing is just so far fetched...
Except of course we already do that if people are deemed to be illegal immigrants. Then we are quite happy to lock them in secure facilities and this passes by with barely a comment from most, and the support of the majority.
One thing I do know, is the fear that many feel of the virus is leading to a number of people wanting draconian measures, actually calling for them rather than merely accepting them.
And the idea that our current home secretary, supporter of the death penalty until very recently, is a trustworthy individual who wouldn't look to bring in tougher measures through the backdoor if given half a chance isn't a view I subscribe too.
We need to absolutely be watchful of our rights at the moment because rarely have they been so exposed. |  |
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| Vaccine Passports .... on 18:02 - Feb 23 with 522 views | lowhouseblue |
given that the government knows (i think), that vaccine take-up varies significantly across racial groups, I'm struggling to see how a discrimination claim wouldn't stand a decent chance in court? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Vaccine Passports .... on 18:12 - Feb 23 with 517 views | earlsgreenblue |
Simple really, “ I want to go on holiday in my car to Europe( anywhere) & I want to take my trusty hound with me (4) legs, guess what!
He has to have an inoculation stamp in his passport..........easy isn’t it, you do have a choice 2 x to be exact, get him jabbed or don’t go, can’t see an argument when I think how much that cost. |  | | |
| Vaccine Passports .... on 18:14 - Feb 23 with 504 views | The_Last_Baron |
| Vaccine Passports .... on 15:37 - Feb 23 by J2BLUE |
Who cares? If you have been offered a vaccine and have turned it down for non medical reasons then the consequences are yours to own. |
Listen to this boy. |  |
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| Vaccine Passports .... on 18:21 - Feb 23 with 489 views | Swansea_Blue |
I'd make anti-vaxers who refuse it for non-medical grounds to wear a dunce's hat, never mind anything to do with vaccine passports.
There's always a risk in everything we do (tomorrow you could be run over going to the shops or in a no fault car accident). But you've had the best scientists working to make and test these vaccines to ensure they are safe. And this is the largest health emergency in over a hundred years. Balance those two things out and you should see it's a no brainer.
Anyone who bleats on about choice, freedom and civil liberties is taking the piss and deserves a good slapping, quite frankly. The more of those people there are the worse things are for everyone else.
Those with genuine medical reasons for an exemption are obviously different. |  |
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| Vaccine Passports .... on 18:27 - Feb 23 with 478 views | WeWereZombies |
| Vaccine Passports .... on 17:37 - Feb 23 by jeera |
I wonder if your mate has heard of SmallPox, Measles, Polio and the like.
The vaccines for those had to start with someone somewhere.
If we all had his attitude then what, constant lockdowns for the rest of his life, or does he think we should all take our chances whilst he's protected by everyone else?
He's excluding himself with his selfishness, not the other way around.
They cannot be made compulsory of course, but you cannot be allowed to enter some countries if you may be carrying a disease. And if restricts his movements elsewhere too then so be it.
Why should other people die for his freedom to choose? |
Point of order - vaccinations can, and have in the past, be made compulsory. From 1853 until 1971 the Smallpox vaccine was enforceable by Act of Parliament:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK545998/
The requirement to vaccinate ended in 1971 because smallpox in the United Kingdom had all but been eradicated, and not not been widespread since the 1930s (elsewhere in the World it took until the 1980s). |  |
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| Vaccine Passports .... on 18:49 - Feb 23 with 459 views | BlueBadger |
| Vaccine Passports .... on 18:21 - Feb 23 by Swansea_Blue |
I'd make anti-vaxers who refuse it for non-medical grounds to wear a dunce's hat, never mind anything to do with vaccine passports.
There's always a risk in everything we do (tomorrow you could be run over going to the shops or in a no fault car accident). But you've had the best scientists working to make and test these vaccines to ensure they are safe. And this is the largest health emergency in over a hundred years. Balance those two things out and you should see it's a no brainer.
Anyone who bleats on about choice, freedom and civil liberties is taking the piss and deserves a good slapping, quite frankly. The more of those people there are the worse things are for everyone else.
Those with genuine medical reasons for an exemption are obviously different. |
These people are invariably only interested in their own liberties, NOT those of the millions of vulnerable people who've been effectively housebound for nearly a year now. |  |
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| Vaccine Passports .... on 18:50 - Feb 23 with 457 views | Trequartista |
Are they going to be blue or burgundy? |  |
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| Vaccine Passports .... on 18:52 - Feb 23 with 458 views | BlueBadger |
| Vaccine Passports .... on 16:17 - Feb 23 by StokieBlue |
Well he will object to everything anyway but I wasn't actually thinking specifically of him.
It's been covered in this thread now already.
SB |
I find it very weird that a self-proclaimed internationalist like Banksy doesn't seem to get the idea of doing things for the common good when it comes to things like vaccines.
Unless of course, he's more interested in being some kind of low-rent left-ish Toilet Bloo-goes-edgelord tribute rather than actually having principles. | |
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| Vaccine Passports .... on 19:27 - Feb 23 with 429 views | m14_blue |
| Vaccine Passports .... on 17:33 - Feb 23 by The_Romford_Blue |
It’s not that he necessarily expecting there to be long term consequences but more that it quite possibly could be - because it’s untested.
I don’t personally agree with him that the risk of catching the virus is outweighed by the risk of injecting it deliberately with an untested long term vaccine but I can definitely see his argument.
Punishing people with that view is just not the way it should be. It’s a dangerous precedent to set imo. What next after this? We deliberately block travel from countries for the next 10 years if the person hasn’t had the vaccine? We make them all live in one city? I don’t know really but I don’t like the idea of a vaccine passport at all.
Not that it’s likely to affect me anyway as I’d be extremely confident I’ll have it. Just thought it was worth bringing to the discussion/thread. |
Footers nailed it for me earlier in this thread, "our freedoms are bound together by social contract."
We're all part of a society and, much as I complain about it, most of us here in the UK get a bl00dy good standard of living thanks to our society. For that society to function we have to trust the checks and balances put in place by experts in all sorts of fields, we trust these to keep us safe every time we buy food, take medicine, get on public transport etc etc.
Our side of the bargain is to follow the laws of the land and, in really exceptional circumstances, perhaps make a sacrifice in order to maintain our way of life. A few generations ago that sacrifice meant going to war and facing unimaginable horrors, for us it involves the infinitesimal risk posed by taking a vaccine.
Now, if people don't want to take on that 'risk' then that's fine, they certainly shouldn't be forced to. But IMO neither should they assume that all of the benefits of living in our society should continue to be available to them.
Of course we can't be 100% sure that there won't be long term effects but there is absolutely no reason or precedent to suppose there will be. There have been myriad medical advances over the last 20 years, by definition none of these can be guaranteed over the long term but I bet most of the vaccine sceptics wouldn't have a clue what they are or if they've taken them.
This doesn't come from some irrational fear of the virus, I've had it and it wasn't anything to write home about, I just think there is a moral obligation to have the vaccine if you value the society we all live in.
Absolutely not a pop at you Rommers. | | | |
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