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Reality check. 20:17 - Feb 26 with 4840 viewsLord_Lucan

I have been thinking about this pension deal thing ever since it was aired.

Is the whole lot being funded by the pension scheme?

I know little about this sort of thing but the way I see it pension funds are generally invested in safe ho hum ventures but there will be a very small amount invested in a high risk.

We are undoubtably high risk and it is likely that the overall pension pot is absolutely fecking feck off big time huge.

Hooever - I am guessing that if after a designated amount of time (and there is likely to be no leeway) we are not showing a potential flip then they will simply walk away.

Ironically yesterday I posted the underneath about the rumoured takeover before any Phoenix thing was mentioned.


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Reality check. on 20:19 - Feb 26 with 2850 viewsJ2BLUE

Or they have just loaned the money for a guaranteed return whether we are in non league or the champions league.

Truly impaired.
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Reality check. on 20:19 - Feb 26 with 2838 viewshype313

I'm hoping this news will flush out other interested parties, as punting a pension pot on a 3rd tier club could be problematic for all concerned.

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Reality check. on 20:21 - Feb 26 with 2798 viewsJakeITFC

Think it is more likely to just be capital raised from them at a set rate as opposed to them riding the rollercoaster with us.

Interesting to see how interest will accrue/the terms of the finance.
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Reality check. on 20:21 - Feb 26 with 2781 viewsWD19

If and when Evans sells I think he will be conscious of who is selling to.....partly because it reflects on him and partly because I do genuinely think he thinks of himself as a bit of a 'custodian' of the club.

If and when any pension fund sells something they will do so to the highest bidder in the quickest possible time.

NET: I would much prefer Evans to just hire a proper CEO and Paul Cook as manager and be done with it.......but given how toxic Evans is with many fans I suspect I am in a minority and most just want to roll the dice at this stage.
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Reality check. on 20:22 - Feb 26 with 2748 viewsJakeITFC

Reality check. on 20:21 - Feb 26 by WD19

If and when Evans sells I think he will be conscious of who is selling to.....partly because it reflects on him and partly because I do genuinely think he thinks of himself as a bit of a 'custodian' of the club.

If and when any pension fund sells something they will do so to the highest bidder in the quickest possible time.

NET: I would much prefer Evans to just hire a proper CEO and Paul Cook as manager and be done with it.......but given how toxic Evans is with many fans I suspect I am in a minority and most just want to roll the dice at this stage.


The flip only works if we are in a better place than we start though - we don’t have anything to leverage the debt against.
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Reality check. on 20:23 - Feb 26 with 2718 viewsMarshalls_Mullet

Reality check. on 20:21 - Feb 26 by WD19

If and when Evans sells I think he will be conscious of who is selling to.....partly because it reflects on him and partly because I do genuinely think he thinks of himself as a bit of a 'custodian' of the club.

If and when any pension fund sells something they will do so to the highest bidder in the quickest possible time.

NET: I would much prefer Evans to just hire a proper CEO and Paul Cook as manager and be done with it.......but given how toxic Evans is with many fans I suspect I am in a minority and most just want to roll the dice at this stage.


100% agree.

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Reality check. on 20:25 - Feb 26 with 2701 viewsTangledupin_Blue

We could do a lot worse than Evans. While he is owner of the club there are safeguards in place regarding the huge debt. He has made some poor decisions but I don't doubt that he cares about the club.

Better the devil you know?

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Reality check. on 20:25 - Feb 26 with 2688 viewsLord_Lucan

Reality check. on 20:22 - Feb 26 by JakeITFC

The flip only works if we are in a better place than we start though - we don’t have anything to leverage the debt against.


The flip only really works when we are in the Prem.

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Reality check. on 20:26 - Feb 26 with 2686 viewsBrianTablet

What's the worst that can happen?

If it all goes t*ts up then we will reform as Ipswich FC 2.0, under fan ownership, get some credibility back, have positive vibes, work our way up the leagues. Although, in the current circumstances, we wouldn't even drop that far.

Or we relocate to Mars and win the Martian Premier League every season?

BCWYWF is b*ll*cks - Better to wish than to accept badly-managed dross.

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Reality check. on 20:29 - Feb 26 with 2636 viewsjeera

Reality check. on 20:21 - Feb 26 by WD19

If and when Evans sells I think he will be conscious of who is selling to.....partly because it reflects on him and partly because I do genuinely think he thinks of himself as a bit of a 'custodian' of the club.

If and when any pension fund sells something they will do so to the highest bidder in the quickest possible time.

NET: I would much prefer Evans to just hire a proper CEO and Paul Cook as manager and be done with it.......but given how toxic Evans is with many fans I suspect I am in a minority and most just want to roll the dice at this stage.


"I would much prefer Evans to just hire a proper CEO and Paul Cook as manager and be done with it.......but given how toxic Evans is with many fans I suspect I am in a minority and most just want to roll the dice at this stage."

This.

An entirely fresh approach from the existing owner would certainly feel the safer and best option, if indeed, it were an option.

You cannot have a sole beneficiary being the chairman, the hirer, the firer, the sole decision maker, especially when their main interests lie elsewhere.

It's a disaster as it stands, but new owners in a guise we don't yet fully understand is cause for concern.

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Reality check. on 20:29 - Feb 26 with 2635 viewsStokieBlue

Funded by a pension scheme can mean almost anything though. Without more context it's impossible to form an opinion.

For instance it could be a fixed rate loan (higher % than in the market so still a good fixed return), a stake in the consortium or even some form of return swap (cash for assets which have to be switched back at some point along with a premium).

You are right they will want a return on their investment but it's entirely dependent what the investment is with regards to the type of return they will be expecting.

SB

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Reality check. on 20:31 - Feb 26 with 2610 viewsTangledupin_Blue

Reality check. on 20:26 - Feb 26 by BrianTablet

What's the worst that can happen?

If it all goes t*ts up then we will reform as Ipswich FC 2.0, under fan ownership, get some credibility back, have positive vibes, work our way up the leagues. Although, in the current circumstances, we wouldn't even drop that far.

Or we relocate to Mars and win the Martian Premier League every season?

BCWYWF is b*ll*cks - Better to wish than to accept badly-managed dross.

Up The Agricultural Mechanicals!


I'd prefer to climb the leagues from our present position rather than from tier 8.

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Reality check. on 20:32 - Feb 26 with 2598 viewsLord_Lucan

Reality check. on 20:29 - Feb 26 by StokieBlue

Funded by a pension scheme can mean almost anything though. Without more context it's impossible to form an opinion.

For instance it could be a fixed rate loan (higher % than in the market so still a good fixed return), a stake in the consortium or even some form of return swap (cash for assets which have to be switched back at some point along with a premium).

You are right they will want a return on their investment but it's entirely dependent what the investment is with regards to the type of return they will be expecting.

SB


That's fair enough.

As I said - I know nothing about this sort of thing, however what happens if after 10 years they are in Evans position of losing £100m?

It's a toast situation surely - contact the receiver!

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Reality check. on 20:33 - Feb 26 with 2553 viewshype313

Reality check. on 20:32 - Feb 26 by Lord_Lucan

That's fair enough.

As I said - I know nothing about this sort of thing, however what happens if after 10 years they are in Evans position of losing £100m?

It's a toast situation surely - contact the receiver!


To be fair, that would be the case for anyone taking over, it's a gamble with high rewards.

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Reality check. on 20:35 - Feb 26 with 2521 viewsJoey_Joe_Joe_Junior

Wasn’t safe at all in 2008. They have all been getting out of trusting Wall Street hedge funds etc and moving into private equity over the last decade. Also the amount is very small at any state level.
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Reality check. on 20:36 - Feb 26 with 2494 viewsLord_Lucan

Reality check. on 20:33 - Feb 26 by hype313

To be fair, that would be the case for anyone taking over, it's a gamble with high rewards.


But this is why IMHO ME hasn't been the devil he has been made out to be. Ok we are in a pickle but he hasn't walked away.

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Reality check. on 20:39 - Feb 26 with 2453 viewshype313

Reality check. on 20:36 - Feb 26 by Lord_Lucan

But this is why IMHO ME hasn't been the devil he has been made out to be. Ok we are in a pickle but he hasn't walked away.


I think the frustration, for me anyway, is that he has clearly lost the appetite to run us properly, he is keeping us on life support, but that's about it.

He's certainly not the devil, but he's not exactly pushing us forward, and his dithering over Lambert has been so detrimental to us.

I just want to go to the pub.

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Reality check. on 20:41 - Feb 26 with 2441 viewsfabian_illness

Will it not be along the Man U/Glazier model, buy the club then borrow against it for as much as possible. Managed debt rather than throwing their own money at it.
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Reality check. on 20:42 - Feb 26 with 2420 viewshype313

Reality check. on 20:41 - Feb 26 by fabian_illness

Will it not be along the Man U/Glazier model, buy the club then borrow against it for as much as possible. Managed debt rather than throwing their own money at it.


Man United are a money making machine, which is easy to borrow against, we're a little bit away from that...

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Reality check. on 20:43 - Feb 26 with 2408 viewsMrTown

I think the only answer right now is we simply don’t know enough information on the financials/plan.

Just have to sit tight and see what occurs in the coming weeks and months and then can probably judge it again from there.

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Reality check. on 20:44 - Feb 26 with 2397 viewsLord_Lucan

Reality check. on 20:41 - Feb 26 by fabian_illness

Will it not be along the Man U/Glazier model, buy the club then borrow against it for as much as possible. Managed debt rather than throwing their own money at it.


They can't really borrow against no assets as the council own the ground. We are a liability.

Freehold = Asset

Lease = Liability.

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Reality check. on 20:47 - Feb 26 with 2344 viewsitfcjoe

Reality check. on 20:39 - Feb 26 by hype313

I think the frustration, for me anyway, is that he has clearly lost the appetite to run us properly, he is keeping us on life support, but that's about it.

He's certainly not the devil, but he's not exactly pushing us forward, and his dithering over Lambert has been so detrimental to us.

I just want to go to the pub.


The problem is he's never run us properly, we've been a hobby to him and this has always been the problem.

Running a football club is a 24/7 job, not something that can be done for a couple of days every few weeks - especially when you still want every decision to go through you

Those above saying ME appointing a CEO is better outcome, I don't disagree but it simply isn't and will never happen - if he hasn't learned that in 13 years when will he? He's seen better run clubs spending fractions of what we do overtake us but hasn't thought to look at their models......look at the Milne interview when Stuart Webber was appointed at Norwich

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Reality check. on 20:49 - Feb 26 with 2302 viewsLord_Lucan

Reality check. on 20:47 - Feb 26 by itfcjoe

The problem is he's never run us properly, we've been a hobby to him and this has always been the problem.

Running a football club is a 24/7 job, not something that can be done for a couple of days every few weeks - especially when you still want every decision to go through you

Those above saying ME appointing a CEO is better outcome, I don't disagree but it simply isn't and will never happen - if he hasn't learned that in 13 years when will he? He's seen better run clubs spending fractions of what we do overtake us but hasn't thought to look at their models......look at the Milne interview when Stuart Webber was appointed at Norwich


I agree

I think ME really does have the best interests and loves owning a football club but he seems to be reluctant to let someone do it for him. I don't know why.

“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.” Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
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Reality check. on 20:49 - Feb 26 with 2289 viewsbluefunk

Reality check. on 20:44 - Feb 26 by Lord_Lucan

They can't really borrow against no assets as the council own the ground. We are a liability.

Freehold = Asset

Lease = Liability.


The only assets we have are future season ticket receipts, and whatever bit of the training ground Marcus includes in the deal. It seems to me this deal is predicated on increasing revenue streams, as per previous deals they appear to have done, there will also be a reset to the wage bill coming in the summer with so many out of contract players.

They also appear to be following the Man City model and so we can look forward to loaning players from overseas clubs, so the outgoings appear on whichever balance sheet suits them best

And re the Pension fund, its most likely to be in the form of a Corporate Bond, ie money they loan the Company for a fixed return, rather than a direct investment in the football club
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Reality check. on 20:54 - Feb 26 with 2227 viewsJermynblue

Reality check. on 20:32 - Feb 26 by Lord_Lucan

That's fair enough.

As I said - I know nothing about this sort of thing, however what happens if after 10 years they are in Evans position of losing £100m?

It's a toast situation surely - contact the receiver!


Personally I would be doubtful that the new owners will be expecting to plough £100M into the club over a number of years to cover operating losses and the net cash outflow in the same way that ME has. We will have been sold before then or gone into administration. In addition the pension fund will be expecting to get its cash back in the same way that Aviva (I think it was) wanted to get its cash back that it loaned to us for the stands. I too am not familiar with the funding model for the acquisition of league one clubs when they are not being purchased by a wealthy individual using his / her own money to purchase the club and fund the operations. However, it takes a brave pension fund manager to loan a large amount of money to a business that has made significant operating losses over many years and with no obvious security available to secure the loan (unless their security is future season ticket sales over many years). Interest rates will be higher but they will want the repayment of the loan. Even if we get into the Championship our profitability will not improve and in fact many clubs in that division make bigger loses than we do. We are definitely sacrificing our long term security here and given our luck in recent years it probably won't work out for us. I am definitely glass half empty tonight, but hope I am wrong.
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