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If what is being said that Gill and Walker have been selecting the team for the past 2-3 games and to not have either CB on the bench for the last 3 games makes me wonder there's something in this?
To be fair to them, on this seasons evidence Woolfy has been well short and although I like the cut of McGuinness’ jib, he’s made mistakes and has a lot to learn. It’s so frustrating watching him go through the back of forwards time and time again, he makes it so easy for the ref to give free kicks. Wilson and Nsiala have less potential but they’re also less raw, Wilson especially is street wise.
Downes is another one who winds me up, it feels like priority 1 is being aggressive and walking like he’s carrying 2 rolls of carpet, and priority 2 is the football. He needs to switch that and he can be a quality player.
Woolfenden & McGuinness on 08:45 - Mar 1 by clive_baker
To be fair to them, on this seasons evidence Woolfy has been well short and although I like the cut of McGuinness’ jib, he’s made mistakes and has a lot to learn. It’s so frustrating watching him go through the back of forwards time and time again, he makes it so easy for the ref to give free kicks. Wilson and Nsiala have less potential but they’re also less raw, Wilson especially is street wise.
Downes is another one who winds me up, it feels like priority 1 is being aggressive and walking like he’s carrying 2 rolls of carpet, and priority 2 is the football. He needs to switch that and he can be a quality player.
[Post edited 1 Mar 2021 8:48]
I think the biggest issue was playing both Woolfy and McGuiness at the same time.
I think either would look much better with any of the more experienced guys alongside them, whilst also not having to play the "pass it 4 thousands times between each other" game plan we choose.
Assuming their influence started after the Northampton game then they probably felt that not starting 5 loanees and going back to basics a bit was the priority. I'm sure any new manager is likely to look to reintegrate Woolfenden into the first team at some point given what he can offer us on the ball and given his obvious potential. He's not been at it this season but I think all of his appearances have been alongside McGuiness, who is even more of a rookie than him. Not ideal conditions for a young CB learning his trade, and I'm not sure Woolf has been in a great place this season with some of the stuff going on with Lambert.
Woolfenden & McGuinness on 08:46 - Mar 1 by DanTheMan
I think the biggest issue was playing both Woolfy and McGuiness at the same time.
I think either would look much better with any of the more experienced guys alongside them, whilst also not having to play the "pass it 4 thousands times between each other" game plan we choose.
Unfortunately Wilson hasn't been available since October and Toto has also been on the long term injury list so there was no other "experienced" option to pair either of them with, unless wed have put Chambers there and is form as a centre back has been woeful since our relegation season. Plus that would have left us short at right back with KVY out for so long.
Woolfenden & McGuinness on 08:50 - Mar 1 by GlasgowBlue
Unfortunately Wilson hasn't been available since October and Toto has also been on the long term injury list so there was no other "experienced" option to pair either of them with, unless wed have put Chambers there and is form as a centre back has been woeful since our relegation season. Plus that would have left us short at right back with KVY out for so long.
Oh yeah, it was a necessity, I just think a lot of their form was a combination of a lack of combined experience and the playing style exacerbating their weaknesses.
I'd like to see Woolfy getting more game time paired with one of them in this much more simple style we're playing. Whilst I like McGuiness, we might as well treat him as back up.
Woolfenden & McGuinness on 08:50 - Mar 1 by GlasgowBlue
Unfortunately Wilson hasn't been available since October and Toto has also been on the long term injury list so there was no other "experienced" option to pair either of them with, unless wed have put Chambers there and is form as a centre back has been woeful since our relegation season. Plus that would have left us short at right back with KVY out for so long.
Chambers form at CB hasn’t been woeful since our relegation season. He was pretty much ever present last season when we had one of the best defensive records in the league and indeed independent analytics such as WhoScored rated him as one of the top CB’s in the division
We also spent much of this season with a perfectly serviceable right back in the squad who Lambert had no intention of ever playing, seemingly owing to a historical issue from his time at Villa. Said right back is now starting every week for another team in the division. And besides, it was the same manager who elected to sign McGuinness on loan and then pushing the experienced centre back out to right back, rather than just signing a right back in the first place
Highlighting crass stupidity since sometime around 2010
Chambers form at CB hasn’t been woeful since our relegation season. He was pretty much ever present last season when we had one of the best defensive records in the league and indeed independent analytics such as WhoScored rated him as one of the top CB’s in the division
We also spent much of this season with a perfectly serviceable right back in the squad who Lambert had no intention of ever playing, seemingly owing to a historical issue from his time at Villa. Said right back is now starting every week for another team in the division. And besides, it was the same manager who elected to sign McGuinness on loan and then pushing the experienced centre back out to right back, rather than just signing a right back in the first place
Woolfenden & McGuinness on 08:45 - Mar 1 by clive_baker
To be fair to them, on this seasons evidence Woolfy has been well short and although I like the cut of McGuinness’ jib, he’s made mistakes and has a lot to learn. It’s so frustrating watching him go through the back of forwards time and time again, he makes it so easy for the ref to give free kicks. Wilson and Nsiala have less potential but they’re also less raw, Wilson especially is street wise.
Downes is another one who winds me up, it feels like priority 1 is being aggressive and walking like he’s carrying 2 rolls of carpet, and priority 2 is the football. He needs to switch that and he can be a quality player.
[Post edited 1 Mar 2021 8:48]
Completely agree on Downes - I didn't see much of ITFC last few seasons, and then have watched a lot this season, and I've been really surprised at how highly Downes is regarded, given the way he conducts himself and what he contributes.
Perhaps he was better in previous seasons, and hasn't benefitted from Lambert's odd approach to discipline this year, where he basically gets praised for getting sent off / picking up stupid cards.
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Woolfenden & McGuinness on 09:09 - Mar 1 with 2044 views
Woolfenden & McGuinness on 09:02 - Mar 1 by Herbivore
All of this.
Yeah, that's right, a defence of Donacien, Chambers, Woolfenden, Kenlock would have been pretty good at this level.
Instead we got two inexperienced centre-backs and two ageing full-backs who struggled to get up and down the pitch, which we desperately needed given the narrow, deep midfield.
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Woolfenden & McGuinness on 09:12 - Mar 1 with 2008 views
Chambers form at CB hasn’t been woeful since our relegation season. He was pretty much ever present last season when we had one of the best defensive records in the league and indeed independent analytics such as WhoScored rated him as one of the top CB’s in the division
We also spent much of this season with a perfectly serviceable right back in the squad who Lambert had no intention of ever playing, seemingly owing to a historical issue from his time at Villa. Said right back is now starting every week for another team in the division. And besides, it was the same manager who elected to sign McGuinness on loan and then pushing the experienced centre back out to right back, rather than just signing a right back in the first place
Completely disagree.
During our relegation he was an absolute rock off the pitch. Holding the team together behind the scenes. On the pitch he was poor and error prone. That continued into last season right from the start (Sunderland) and continued. His mistakes cist us a lot of goals last year.
Woolfenden & McGuinness on 09:07 - Mar 1 by gordon
Completely agree on Downes - I didn't see much of ITFC last few seasons, and then have watched a lot this season, and I've been really surprised at how highly Downes is regarded, given the way he conducts himself and what he contributes.
Perhaps he was better in previous seasons, and hasn't benefitted from Lambert's odd approach to discipline this year, where he basically gets praised for getting sent off / picking up stupid cards.
He was very good last season. This season he's been playing frustrated and looks a red card waiting to happen. Needs an arm around his shoulder and he was never likely to get that from Lambert.
Woolfenden & McGuinness on 09:12 - Mar 1 by GlasgowBlue
Completely disagree.
During our relegation he was an absolute rock off the pitch. Holding the team together behind the scenes. On the pitch he was poor and error prone. That continued into last season right from the start (Sunderland) and continued. His mistakes cist us a lot of goals last year.
His time as a centre back is over.
He made the odd mistake but pretty much all centre backs, Van Dijk aside, do. He certainly wasn’t responsible for lots of goals and no more so than anyone else in the backline. Again, those mistakes were so frequent that the defence he was leading was one of the best in the division
There’s certainly an argument that we should be looking to move on beyond the Chambers era but to argue he’s a liability at this level is nonsense
Never had you down as a rabid every goal is Chambers fault-type, but there you go
[Post edited 1 Mar 2021 9:22]
Highlighting crass stupidity since sometime around 2010
Woolfenden & McGuinness on 09:12 - Mar 1 by GlasgowBlue
Completely disagree.
During our relegation he was an absolute rock off the pitch. Holding the team together behind the scenes. On the pitch he was poor and error prone. That continued into last season right from the start (Sunderland) and continued. His mistakes cist us a lot of goals last year.
His time as a centre back is over.
You always reference the Sunderland error but can you name a few other occasions where an obvious Chambers error led to a goal last season? I'm struggling to think of many off the top of my head, certainly at PR I don't recall him being particularly error prone last season.
Woolfenden & McGuinness on 08:46 - Mar 1 by DanTheMan
I think the biggest issue was playing both Woolfy and McGuiness at the same time.
I think either would look much better with any of the more experienced guys alongside them, whilst also not having to play the "pass it 4 thousands times between each other" game plan we choose.
Under appreciated post.
Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top.
Woolfenden & McGuinness on 09:12 - Mar 1 by GlasgowBlue
Completely disagree.
During our relegation he was an absolute rock off the pitch. Holding the team together behind the scenes. On the pitch he was poor and error prone. That continued into last season right from the start (Sunderland) and continued. His mistakes cist us a lot of goals last year.
His time as a centre back is over.
Think there were only 4 teams who conceded fewer goals than us last season so it’s always laughable when people suggest defensive errors were costing us. Funny also that everyone brings up the Sunderland blunder then immediately points vaguely to other mistakes. Almost like he wasn’t error prone at all.
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
Woolfenden & McGuinness on 08:45 - Mar 1 by clive_baker
To be fair to them, on this seasons evidence Woolfy has been well short and although I like the cut of McGuinness’ jib, he’s made mistakes and has a lot to learn. It’s so frustrating watching him go through the back of forwards time and time again, he makes it so easy for the ref to give free kicks. Wilson and Nsiala have less potential but they’re also less raw, Wilson especially is street wise.
Downes is another one who winds me up, it feels like priority 1 is being aggressive and walking like he’s carrying 2 rolls of carpet, and priority 2 is the football. He needs to switch that and he can be a quality player.
[Post edited 1 Mar 2021 8:48]
I don't disagree with your view on Woolf and McGuinness, I just don't understand why we haven't had either of them on the bench in the last 3 games.
I would like to see Woolfenden - Wilson going forwards. I think that could be a partnership for a maximum of 2 seasons maybe. I'm not convinced with McGuinness like you, but he isn't our player to develop beyond this season so he could probably phase out.
I think Downes is rarity in a dying breed of midfielders. A player who plays aggressive and plays on the edge. I don't really see the role of a 'defensive midfielder' or 'attacking midfielder'. I would personally like my midfielder to play box to box - defend and attack, be aggressive and win the ball back, retain the ball but look to pass forwards, get up and down the pitch. It's old school and I think that's Downes. He's not a player I'd limit in the modern game because he's got so much to offer.
Woolfenden & McGuinness on 09:24 - Mar 1 by Herbivore
You always reference the Sunderland error but can you name a few other occasions where an obvious Chambers error led to a goal last season? I'm struggling to think of many off the top of my head, certainly at PR I don't recall him being particularly error prone last season.
Coventry last season. A selection of TWTD comments:
Sprucemoose "With all these shoddy performances he's in the process of tarnishing the pretty well deserved and well earned affection he receives from the fans. Shame really".
Bluebadger "Sadly I think his time has now come. It's sad to see such a great servant of the club reduced to this."
I can give you some more when I get back later if you like?
Woolfenden & McGuinness on 09:38 - Mar 1 by GlasgowBlue
Coventry last season. A selection of TWTD comments:
Sprucemoose "With all these shoddy performances he's in the process of tarnishing the pretty well deserved and well earned affection he receives from the fans. Shame really".
Bluebadger "Sadly I think his time has now come. It's sad to see such a great servant of the club reduced to this."
I can give you some more when I get back later if you like?
[Post edited 1 Mar 2021 9:44]
Please do, as having been at every home game last season I'm struggling to recall major errors from him that led to goals. He was, for the most part, absolutely fine playing in a defence that was generally solid and amongst the best in the league.
Woolfenden & McGuinness on 09:44 - Mar 1 by Herbivore
Please do, as having been at every home game last season I'm struggling to recall major errors from him that led to goals. He was, for the most part, absolutely fine playing in a defence that was generally solid and amongst the best in the league.
[Post edited 1 Mar 2021 10:26]
I’ll also add that as a right back he was top class at the beginning of the season but his firmed dipped dramatically when we had the Woolf/MG central partnership as he was being constantly dragged out if position to cover for Woolfenden.
Since Toto and Wilson have been back Chambers has been very good and seemed to have his mojo back. Quite happy to mane runs down the wing and putting dangerous crosses into the opposition box.
Woolfenden & McGuinness on 09:38 - Mar 1 by GlasgowBlue
Coventry last season. A selection of TWTD comments:
Sprucemoose "With all these shoddy performances he's in the process of tarnishing the pretty well deserved and well earned affection he receives from the fans. Shame really".
Bluebadger "Sadly I think his time has now come. It's sad to see such a great servant of the club reduced to this."
I can give you some more when I get back later if you like?
[Post edited 1 Mar 2021 9:44]
I actually think Chambers has been tarnished by the banter era brush in all honesty, His time here has coincided with the terrible tenure of Evans and for a long time he was used as the scapegoat rather than the fans looking at the bigger picture.
Yes he's made mistakes and costly ones too, but he has also been a rock for us and when you hear of stories from academy players and new arrivals about how he welcomes them all in, he has been the glue that has kept this ship from veering way of course.
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