| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:21 - Mar 15 with 1144 views | Ryorry |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:14 - Mar 15 by bluelagos |
The lady in front of me this morning told me she was upset to be getting the AZ one as she had wanted the Oxford one.
Are you supposed to do the 15 minute rest thing? I just jumped in the car as no one said anything... |
The vacc centre I went to had a recuperation area where you had to sit down for 15 mins (large clock on the wall & you timed yourself) before being allowed to drive. |  |
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| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:39 - Mar 15 with 1114 views | bluelagos |
BBC reporting that France and Germany have now also suspended the AZ rollout. Fingers crossed they get their checks done asap and without too much damage to the public confidence in their vaccine programmes. |  |
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| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:45 - Mar 15 with 1083 views | GlasgowBlue |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:39 - Mar 15 by bluelagos |
BBC reporting that France and Germany have now also suspended the AZ rollout. Fingers crossed they get their checks done asap and without too much damage to the public confidence in their vaccine programmes. |
It's getting silly now. There have been only 37 reports of blood clots from 17 million people who had the AZ vaccine across Europe. That's lower than the average level in the non vaccinated population.
Our own figures show that there have been more cases of blood clots from those vaccinated with the Pfizer jab. |  |
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| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:46 - Mar 15 with 1103 views | StokieBlue |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:39 - Mar 15 by bluelagos |
BBC reporting that France and Germany have now also suspended the AZ rollout. Fingers crossed they get their checks done asap and without too much damage to the public confidence in their vaccine programmes. |
It's too late, I seriously doubt AZ will recover from this in the EU after the politicised statements about it a few months ago which it still hasn't really recovered from in the EU. There are a number of vaccine scientists on in the media today saying the levels are at the background level that there would be with no vaccines (~3000 per month). The EMA will report their findings tomorrow. If there is an issue then of course then action should be taken but the UK has seen no issue and has administered the most doses.
The Germany press already know it'll be incredibly hard or impossible to renew confidence:
From the Guardian.
"In an emergency press conference, Jens Spahn, the health minister, called the decision a “precautionary suspension” which he said was part of the government’s “open and transparent” approach in communication about the virus.
He stressed that if the vaccine was given the all clear, the government would do all it could to encourage people to take the vaccine once again.
Journalists at the press conference pushed him on the topic, arguing that it would be difficult to persuade people to receive AstraZeneca after yet another warning about its safety."
It's not ideal.
SB [Post edited 15 Mar 2021 15:48]
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| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:46 - Mar 15 with 1094 views | Churchman |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 07:42 - Mar 15 by StokieBlue |
I'm not surprised, I suspect most of the EU will do this now even though the EMA have said they shouldn't. The reputation has never recovered from the politicising a few months back. Interestingly there have been more people with blood clots vaccinated with Pfizer in the UK than AZ although it's very close which is what you would expect if it was the same as the standard background rate.
Having said that, if they feel more investigation is required then it's the right thing to do to pause their vaccinations. I think it's going to be pretty hard to establish a correlation though given what we know from the number in the UK vaccination programme. If they find one though then that is important information.
SB |
So Germany have joined the suspend club I see. From the Science Medical Centre (SMC) 14 March:
“It is also a principle of regulatory action that when action is taken in regard to a particular product, that the alternatives definitely do not have the same problem. There was a case of thrombocytopenia in the US trial for the Pfizer vaccine, but detailed investigation made it clear that the vaccine was not the cause. The publicly available information on the AstraZeneca vaccine lists a total of 35 cases of thrombocytopenia reported on “Yellow Cards” in the UK up to 8th March 2021. This is a very small proportion of the yellow card reports which total over 54,000 in the context of nearly 10 million vaccinations delivered. For the Pfizer vaccine there are a total of 22 reports of thrombocytopenia out of 33,000 reports and well over 10 million vaccination doses. It is clear that the proportion of reports for this bleeding disorder is not different in the two vaccines.
So, 35 cases of bleeding reported from 10 million vaccinations = 0.00035%. Given the Pfizer vaccine rate of thrombocytopenia is 0.00022%, I presume the EU will be banning the use of that too or setting the threshold at 0.0003%?
This article also suggests that bleeding disorders are more common in people who have/have had the virus. |  | | |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:51 - Mar 15 with 1069 views | Ryorry |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:46 - Mar 15 by StokieBlue |
It's too late, I seriously doubt AZ will recover from this in the EU after the politicised statements about it a few months ago which it still hasn't really recovered from in the EU. There are a number of vaccine scientists on in the media today saying the levels are at the background level that there would be with no vaccines (~3000 per month). The EMA will report their findings tomorrow. If there is an issue then of course then action should be taken but the UK has seen no issue and has administered the most doses.
The Germany press already know it'll be incredibly hard or impossible to renew confidence:
From the Guardian.
"In an emergency press conference, Jens Spahn, the health minister, called the decision a “precautionary suspension” which he said was part of the government’s “open and transparent” approach in communication about the virus.
He stressed that if the vaccine was given the all clear, the government would do all it could to encourage people to take the vaccine once again.
Journalists at the press conference pushed him on the topic, arguing that it would be difficult to persuade people to receive AstraZeneca after yet another warning about its safety."
It's not ideal.
SB [Post edited 15 Mar 2021 15:48]
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Bit ironic considering all the arguing & protests about who got first served by the AZ contracts.
Also very sad, if it is political Machiavellianism, that it'll be the citizens of those countries who literally take the hit of delayed roll-outs. | |
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| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:54 - Mar 15 with 1035 views | GlasgowBlue |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:46 - Mar 15 by StokieBlue |
It's too late, I seriously doubt AZ will recover from this in the EU after the politicised statements about it a few months ago which it still hasn't really recovered from in the EU. There are a number of vaccine scientists on in the media today saying the levels are at the background level that there would be with no vaccines (~3000 per month). The EMA will report their findings tomorrow. If there is an issue then of course then action should be taken but the UK has seen no issue and has administered the most doses.
The Germany press already know it'll be incredibly hard or impossible to renew confidence:
From the Guardian.
"In an emergency press conference, Jens Spahn, the health minister, called the decision a “precautionary suspension” which he said was part of the government’s “open and transparent” approach in communication about the virus.
He stressed that if the vaccine was given the all clear, the government would do all it could to encourage people to take the vaccine once again.
Journalists at the press conference pushed him on the topic, arguing that it would be difficult to persuade people to receive AstraZeneca after yet another warning about its safety."
It's not ideal.
SB [Post edited 15 Mar 2021 15:48]
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And confidence in covid vaccines are already low in France and Germany so this really has the potential to hit it even more.
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| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:57 - Mar 15 with 1044 views | giant_stow |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:46 - Mar 15 by StokieBlue |
It's too late, I seriously doubt AZ will recover from this in the EU after the politicised statements about it a few months ago which it still hasn't really recovered from in the EU. There are a number of vaccine scientists on in the media today saying the levels are at the background level that there would be with no vaccines (~3000 per month). The EMA will report their findings tomorrow. If there is an issue then of course then action should be taken but the UK has seen no issue and has administered the most doses.
The Germany press already know it'll be incredibly hard or impossible to renew confidence:
From the Guardian.
"In an emergency press conference, Jens Spahn, the health minister, called the decision a “precautionary suspension” which he said was part of the government’s “open and transparent” approach in communication about the virus.
He stressed that if the vaccine was given the all clear, the government would do all it could to encourage people to take the vaccine once again.
Journalists at the press conference pushed him on the topic, arguing that it would be difficult to persuade people to receive AstraZeneca after yet another warning about its safety."
It's not ideal.
SB [Post edited 15 Mar 2021 15:48]
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This is all getting a bit sureal now. their third wave is building daily. |  |
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| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:00 - Mar 15 with 1031 views | PassionNotAnger |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:45 - Mar 15 by GlasgowBlue |
It's getting silly now. There have been only 37 reports of blood clots from 17 million people who had the AZ vaccine across Europe. That's lower than the average level in the non vaccinated population.
Our own figures show that there have been more cases of blood clots from those vaccinated with the Pfizer jab. |
I'm not suggesting you are incorrect and I'm not entirely sure how the figures are collated and cross-referenced but my mother suddenly collapsed and died (quite traumatically) a week after having her vaccination jab, the coroner has recorded her death as blood clot on the lung but nobody asked the family about what jab she and where and haven't referenced it anywhere formally that we are aware of so are we to assume that someone/somewhere is doing that correlation piece via data analysis?
FWIW she wasn't unwell before the jab other than being diabetic either, we believe it probably was linked to the jab but clearly we'll never know that for certain
Really not too sure how confident to be in the figures right now |  | | |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:01 - Mar 15 with 1029 views | GeoffSentence |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:39 - Mar 15 by bluelagos |
BBC reporting that France and Germany have now also suspended the AZ rollout. Fingers crossed they get their checks done asap and without too much damage to the public confidence in their vaccine programmes. |
WifeSentence has just shouted throught that Italy has joind that list.
This is gtting nuts, Italy is suffering badly from COvid and the risks of getting covid are well known and high.
Still, all the more for us. Assuming they let it out of the EU. |  |
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| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:02 - Mar 15 with 1027 views | StokieBlue |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:57 - Mar 15 by giant_stow |
This is all getting a bit sureal now. their third wave is building daily. |
Indeed, they are going to have a problem with the B117 variant, it's hard to see how they will be able to relax any restrictions as quickly as the UK without some very bad issues. Mixing indoors with this variant is really not a good idea without vaccines.
"The variant first found in the U.K. is spreading significantly in 27 European countries monitored by WHO and is dominant in at least 10 countries: Britain, Denmark, Italy, Ireland, Germany, France, the Netherlands, Israel, Spain and Portugal."
In the UK the B117 variant (UK variant) now constitutes 98% of the cases. In France it's about 60%, Germany about 40%.
They need to get the vaccinations mess sorted out ASAP.
SB | | | |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:06 - Mar 15 with 998 views | GlasgowBlue |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:00 - Mar 15 by PassionNotAnger |
I'm not suggesting you are incorrect and I'm not entirely sure how the figures are collated and cross-referenced but my mother suddenly collapsed and died (quite traumatically) a week after having her vaccination jab, the coroner has recorded her death as blood clot on the lung but nobody asked the family about what jab she and where and haven't referenced it anywhere formally that we are aware of so are we to assume that someone/somewhere is doing that correlation piece via data analysis?
FWIW she wasn't unwell before the jab other than being diabetic either, we believe it probably was linked to the jab but clearly we'll never know that for certain
Really not too sure how confident to be in the figures right now |
That awful and I'm sorry for your loss.
The figures are from AZ and were reported on the BBC news.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56360646
Once again, sorry for your loss. | |
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| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:08 - Mar 15 with 999 views | Churchman |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:51 - Mar 15 by Ryorry |
Bit ironic considering all the arguing & protests about who got first served by the AZ contracts.
Also very sad, if it is political Machiavellianism, that it'll be the citizens of those countries who literally take the hit of delayed roll-outs. |
Well, there is the criticism that they were slow off the mark in procurement. They even tried to get a price reduction on something being sold at cost. Then there was their ludicrous attempt at bullying the U.K. and AZ regarding the contracts and supplies to cover their embarrassment. Then we had the laughable age limits which JVT and others said made no sense, before that was proven correct by U.K. stats. Now we have this which again makes little sense to me unless you look at it from the perspective of them needing to hide their red faces over rollout.
They have rising Covid cases in Europe. It looks like the poor people will be carrying the can for this, sadly. | | | |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:09 - Mar 15 with 996 views | StokieBlue |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:00 - Mar 15 by PassionNotAnger |
I'm not suggesting you are incorrect and I'm not entirely sure how the figures are collated and cross-referenced but my mother suddenly collapsed and died (quite traumatically) a week after having her vaccination jab, the coroner has recorded her death as blood clot on the lung but nobody asked the family about what jab she and where and haven't referenced it anywhere formally that we are aware of so are we to assume that someone/somewhere is doing that correlation piece via data analysis?
FWIW she wasn't unwell before the jab other than being diabetic either, we believe it probably was linked to the jab but clearly we'll never know that for certain
Really not too sure how confident to be in the figures right now |
Very sorry to hear of your loss, that's awful.
There was an article today around the general instance of blood clots in the population in a general year which explains a lot around the numbers:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/15/evidence-oxford-vaccine-bl
SB | | | |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:17 - Mar 15 with 957 views | Durovigutum |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:46 - Mar 15 by Churchman |
So Germany have joined the suspend club I see. From the Science Medical Centre (SMC) 14 March:
“It is also a principle of regulatory action that when action is taken in regard to a particular product, that the alternatives definitely do not have the same problem. There was a case of thrombocytopenia in the US trial for the Pfizer vaccine, but detailed investigation made it clear that the vaccine was not the cause. The publicly available information on the AstraZeneca vaccine lists a total of 35 cases of thrombocytopenia reported on “Yellow Cards” in the UK up to 8th March 2021. This is a very small proportion of the yellow card reports which total over 54,000 in the context of nearly 10 million vaccinations delivered. For the Pfizer vaccine there are a total of 22 reports of thrombocytopenia out of 33,000 reports and well over 10 million vaccination doses. It is clear that the proportion of reports for this bleeding disorder is not different in the two vaccines.
So, 35 cases of bleeding reported from 10 million vaccinations = 0.00035%. Given the Pfizer vaccine rate of thrombocytopenia is 0.00022%, I presume the EU will be banning the use of that too or setting the threshold at 0.0003%?
This article also suggests that bleeding disorders are more common in people who have/have had the virus. |
Question.
Is the risk of blood clots going to be increased by the fact that people have been sitting around more and generally undertaking less physical activity? |  | | |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:20 - Mar 15 with 940 views | jeera |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:01 - Mar 15 by GeoffSentence |
WifeSentence has just shouted throught that Italy has joind that list.
This is gtting nuts, Italy is suffering badly from COvid and the risks of getting covid are well known and high.
Still, all the more for us. Assuming they let it out of the EU. |
If it's unwanted, then there are plenty of African nations that could do with some still I'm sure.
I do hope no one is playing politics with this, I really do.
We're nowhere near out of the woods with this and stalling the roll-out at every opportunity is so damaging. |  |
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| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:21 - Mar 15 with 937 views | StokieBlue |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:17 - Mar 15 by Durovigutum |
Question.
Is the risk of blood clots going to be increased by the fact that people have been sitting around more and generally undertaking less physical activity? |
Well the issue is that blood clots haven't increased. There are approximately at the level that they are at every year.
I suspect there may be something in your point though, especially around DVT.
SB | | | |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:24 - Mar 15 with 922 views | giant_stow |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:00 - Mar 15 by PassionNotAnger |
I'm not suggesting you are incorrect and I'm not entirely sure how the figures are collated and cross-referenced but my mother suddenly collapsed and died (quite traumatically) a week after having her vaccination jab, the coroner has recorded her death as blood clot on the lung but nobody asked the family about what jab she and where and haven't referenced it anywhere formally that we are aware of so are we to assume that someone/somewhere is doing that correlation piece via data analysis?
FWIW she wasn't unwell before the jab other than being diabetic either, we believe it probably was linked to the jab but clearly we'll never know that for certain
Really not too sure how confident to be in the figures right now |
my condolences and Rip. | |
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| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:28 - Mar 15 with 908 views | Churchman |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:17 - Mar 15 by Durovigutum |
Question.
Is the risk of blood clots going to be increased by the fact that people have been sitting around more and generally undertaking less physical activity? |
That’s an extremely interesting question. Having no idea whatsoever, common sense tells me yes. If only because exercise gets the heart going to pump the stuff around a bit more? I’d be interested to know what people think on this.
On a less serious note, does a beer or glass of wine help? Isn’t alcohol a blood thinner? If so, I should be alright 😃. | | | |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:28 - Mar 15 with 907 views | jeera |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:00 - Mar 15 by PassionNotAnger |
I'm not suggesting you are incorrect and I'm not entirely sure how the figures are collated and cross-referenced but my mother suddenly collapsed and died (quite traumatically) a week after having her vaccination jab, the coroner has recorded her death as blood clot on the lung but nobody asked the family about what jab she and where and haven't referenced it anywhere formally that we are aware of so are we to assume that someone/somewhere is doing that correlation piece via data analysis?
FWIW she wasn't unwell before the jab other than being diabetic either, we believe it probably was linked to the jab but clearly we'll never know that for certain
Really not too sure how confident to be in the figures right now |
Really sorry to hear about your mum.
That would be enough to make anyone sceptical, naturally. | |
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| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:37 - Mar 15 with 887 views | Churchman |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 16:00 - Mar 15 by PassionNotAnger |
I'm not suggesting you are incorrect and I'm not entirely sure how the figures are collated and cross-referenced but my mother suddenly collapsed and died (quite traumatically) a week after having her vaccination jab, the coroner has recorded her death as blood clot on the lung but nobody asked the family about what jab she and where and haven't referenced it anywhere formally that we are aware of so are we to assume that someone/somewhere is doing that correlation piece via data analysis?
FWIW she wasn't unwell before the jab other than being diabetic either, we believe it probably was linked to the jab but clearly we'll never know that for certain
Really not too sure how confident to be in the figures right now |
I’m sorry to hear about your mum. What a horrendous time for you and your family. Condolences. | | | |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 17:06 - Mar 15 with 865 views | Lord_Lucan |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:16 - Mar 15 by hoppy |
At Trinity Park, when I went, they set a timer on the wall of the cubicle for 15 minutes, and they say when that's up, you can just go. |
I went Sunday to Trinity and they just let me go back to my car and asked me to wait 15 mins before setting off.
I was due to have the jab at 11.45 and was back in my car at 11.46.
No sore arm or adverse effects.
My Mrs went to Gainsborough sports centre and they had to wait in a room. |  |
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| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 17:50 - Mar 15 with 839 views | jontysnut |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 15:45 - Mar 15 by GlasgowBlue |
It's getting silly now. There have been only 37 reports of blood clots from 17 million people who had the AZ vaccine across Europe. That's lower than the average level in the non vaccinated population.
Our own figures show that there have been more cases of blood clots from those vaccinated with the Pfizer jab. |
https://www.isth.org/news/556057
Statement from the International Society on Thrombosis and Haemostatsis - keep taking the medicine |  | | |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 17:54 - Mar 15 with 829 views | StokieBlue |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 17:50 - Mar 15 by jontysnut |
https://www.isth.org/news/556057
Statement from the International Society on Thrombosis and Haemostatsis - keep taking the medicine |
I fear it's too late. The succession of scare stories put out within EU countries have totally undermined the AZ vaccine in those countries. I wouldn't be surprised to see wholesale refusal of the vaccine by those populations if it's cleared by the EMA.
I hope I'm wrong but this is going to be a real issue for the EU over the next 3 to 6 months.
SB | | | |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 18:01 - Mar 15 with 813 views | Churchman |
| And now the Dutch suspend the use of the A Z vaccine. on 17:06 - Mar 15 by Lord_Lucan |
I went Sunday to Trinity and they just let me go back to my car and asked me to wait 15 mins before setting off.
I was due to have the jab at 11.45 and was back in my car at 11.46.
No sore arm or adverse effects.
My Mrs went to Gainsborough sports centre and they had to wait in a room. |
I had mine done in Bromley and they said I could go or wait in the waiting area they’d set up, but if I ambled off advised I shouldn’t drive for 15 mins. | | | |
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