| Macron's starting to lose it now 12:44 - Mar 16 with 11789 views | hype313 |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 18:35 - Mar 16 with 908 views | DanTheMan |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 18:34 - Mar 16 by pointofblue |
Prime Minister, President or monarch? |
Monarch. |  |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 18:37 - Mar 16 with 904 views | pointofblue |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 18:35 - Mar 16 by DanTheMan |
Monarch. |
We’ll find out in a few years! |  |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 18:58 - Mar 16 with 870 views | Moriarty |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 17:04 - Mar 16 by giant_stow |
I must say, the painting of AZ as unreliable as a company or for its vaccine is poor. If they made promises with no provisos, then sue them and win, but if they've got production problems that they warned against, I don't understand the anger, recriminations or attacks.
To me, I think there's a possble PR game going on. The cost price, cheap, accessible, vaccine is being attacked while the vastly more expensive corporate money maker sails on despite similar delivery and blood clot 'problems'. All starting to look a little sus. [Post edited 16 Mar 2021 17:05]
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There have been various expressions of frustrations with AZ from govt and govt advisory boards here.
It’s not a PR game. Not with public health at stake. |  |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:15 - Mar 16 with 850 views | hype313 |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 18:58 - Mar 16 by Moriarty |
There have been various expressions of frustrations with AZ from govt and govt advisory boards here.
It’s not a PR game. Not with public health at stake. |
I think you'll find it is, and a very warped and dangerous one at that. Why have they have been trashing AZ from day one? Nothing to do with the fact that it's British and being rolled out at cost.. | |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:18 - Mar 16 with 836 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:15 - Mar 16 by hype313 |
I think you'll find it is, and a very warped and dangerous one at that. Why have they have been trashing AZ from day one? Nothing to do with the fact that it's British and being rolled out at cost.. |
And still no one can give an answer to this:
Pfizer have reported 25 cases of bloodclotting in 11 million vaccinations. AZ have reported 28 cases in 10 million.
Why are the EU countries suspending AZ but not Pfizer? |  |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:21 - Mar 16 with 839 views | GlasgowBlue |
This is on Macron.
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:29 - Mar 16 with 830 views | Moriarty |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:15 - Mar 16 by hype313 |
I think you'll find it is, and a very warped and dangerous one at that. Why have they have been trashing AZ from day one? Nothing to do with the fact that it's British and being rolled out at cost.. |
Utter, utter garbage.
When have the Irish govt thrashed AZ?
The politics is driven by the likes of you who resort to that sort of stupidity and interpret every concern with AZ as some deranged attack on the U.K. [Post edited 16 Mar 2021 19:31]
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:32 - Mar 16 with 817 views | giant_stow |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:29 - Mar 16 by Moriarty |
Utter, utter garbage.
When have the Irish govt thrashed AZ?
The politics is driven by the likes of you who resort to that sort of stupidity and interpret every concern with AZ as some deranged attack on the U.K. [Post edited 16 Mar 2021 19:31]
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Even if you're right about that, there's no denying that the EU market is looking a lot healthier for Pfizer after the last few days' events.
[Post edited 16 Mar 2021 19:40]
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:35 - Mar 16 with 804 views | pointofblue |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:29 - Mar 16 by Moriarty |
Utter, utter garbage.
When have the Irish govt thrashed AZ?
The politics is driven by the likes of you who resort to that sort of stupidity and interpret every concern with AZ as some deranged attack on the U.K. [Post edited 16 Mar 2021 19:31]
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To a degree I agree with you - I don’t think it’s anything to do with AZ having British backing but I do believe the lack of supplies when compared to the U.K. is steering thinking and making authorities far more willing to lash out against it than Pfizer, where supplies are more readily available. The director general of Italy’s medicines authority (at 11:00) has indicated as such today:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-56412074/page/3 | |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:35 - Mar 16 with 803 views | Moriarty |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:18 - Mar 16 by GlasgowBlue |
And still no one can give an answer to this:
Pfizer have reported 25 cases of bloodclotting in 11 million vaccinations. AZ have reported 28 cases in 10 million.
Why are the EU countries suspending AZ but not Pfizer? |
Because AZ ‘s issues might stem from one specific batch and they are examining if similar issues could happen in other batches, ie a manufacturing issue? | |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:42 - Mar 16 with 787 views | hype313 |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:35 - Mar 16 by Moriarty |
Because AZ ‘s issues might stem from one specific batch and they are examining if similar issues could happen in other batches, ie a manufacturing issue? |
Ffs it's nothing to do with the vaccines, or any kind of bad batch, if that was the case then why haven't they all suspended the Pfizer vaccine? Correlation doesn't imply causation | |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:50 - Mar 16 with 769 views | giant_stow |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:21 - Mar 16 by GlasgowBlue |
This is on Macron.
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What grim news. As Cotty says above, this is bad news for all of us. I read someone earlier make the point that this scepticism could possibly leak over all covid vaccines. | |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:58 - Mar 16 with 758 views | Moriarty |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:42 - Mar 16 by hype313 |
Ffs it's nothing to do with the vaccines, or any kind of bad batch, if that was the case then why haven't they all suspended the Pfizer vaccine? Correlation doesn't imply causation |
You’re accusing governments of putting politics ahead of people’s health? That’s how you see it?
I know someone who had an appointment for the AZ jab which was cancelled because AZ didn’t supply. I know the upset they feel, the arrangements they had to make to in advance and how they felt when it was cancelled. To accuse our government of engaging in politics to hurt her citizens is utterly stupid. We’re empty on stock.
You’re not motivated by concerns for citizens in places like Ireland where people (that’s people, not politics) have been put on hold by AZ’s delays. You’re flag flying AZ jingoism is based purely on nationality.
You ignore the fact that the suspension is temporary, hat our govt clearly want the AZ vaccine, and tell me you know more about what’s going on here from your perch over there?
Your views are offensive. | |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 20:11 - Mar 16 with 736 views | hype313 |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:58 - Mar 16 by Moriarty |
You’re accusing governments of putting politics ahead of people’s health? That’s how you see it?
I know someone who had an appointment for the AZ jab which was cancelled because AZ didn’t supply. I know the upset they feel, the arrangements they had to make to in advance and how they felt when it was cancelled. To accuse our government of engaging in politics to hurt her citizens is utterly stupid. We’re empty on stock.
You’re not motivated by concerns for citizens in places like Ireland where people (that’s people, not politics) have been put on hold by AZ’s delays. You’re flag flying AZ jingoism is based purely on nationality.
You ignore the fact that the suspension is temporary, hat our govt clearly want the AZ vaccine, and tell me you know more about what’s going on here from your perch over there?
Your views are offensive. |
What's offensive by merely asking a question as to why, given both vaccines are disingenuously linked to blood clots, why one is being singled out and the other isn't?
Also, If you gave forty million people a cup of tea three of four people would die shortly afterwards from blood clots. All that we have measured is the natural rate of death from blood clots. | |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 20:43 - Mar 16 with 701 views | jimmyvet |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:58 - Mar 16 by Moriarty |
You’re accusing governments of putting politics ahead of people’s health? That’s how you see it?
I know someone who had an appointment for the AZ jab which was cancelled because AZ didn’t supply. I know the upset they feel, the arrangements they had to make to in advance and how they felt when it was cancelled. To accuse our government of engaging in politics to hurt her citizens is utterly stupid. We’re empty on stock.
You’re not motivated by concerns for citizens in places like Ireland where people (that’s people, not politics) have been put on hold by AZ’s delays. You’re flag flying AZ jingoism is based purely on nationality.
You ignore the fact that the suspension is temporary, hat our govt clearly want the AZ vaccine, and tell me you know more about what’s going on here from your perch over there?
Your views are offensive. |
You still have not responded to Pfizer delivering 30% Less vaccines than agreed in Feb to the EU and why that is acceptable but AZ not delivering its stated doses is not acceptable to you or the EU. What’s the difference please? Are you sure this is not political on your part! | | | |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 20:43 - Mar 16 with 700 views | borge |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:58 - Mar 16 by Moriarty |
You’re accusing governments of putting politics ahead of people’s health? That’s how you see it?
I know someone who had an appointment for the AZ jab which was cancelled because AZ didn’t supply. I know the upset they feel, the arrangements they had to make to in advance and how they felt when it was cancelled. To accuse our government of engaging in politics to hurt her citizens is utterly stupid. We’re empty on stock.
You’re not motivated by concerns for citizens in places like Ireland where people (that’s people, not politics) have been put on hold by AZ’s delays. You’re flag flying AZ jingoism is based purely on nationality.
You ignore the fact that the suspension is temporary, hat our govt clearly want the AZ vaccine, and tell me you know more about what’s going on here from your perch over there?
Your views are offensive. |
I don't actually think that the Irish government is engaging in petty politics in suspending use of the AZ vaccine, but health officials and politicians in other EU countries have admitted that suspensions in their markets are politically rather than medically driven. So whilst I can understand why you might be offended, I can also understand why you are being given short shrift here.
The contract is clear that AZ would endeavour to deliver based on best efforts. They are also supplying at cost price. Furthermore their vaccine has been trashed by German and French misinformation. Its use has now been suspended when the number of blood clots is comparable to those experienced with the Pfizer vaccine and ten times fewer than would be the case within the general population normally. So I'm not sure why you are failing to understand people's annoyance on here. It's not vaccine nationalism, it's just defending something that deserves to be defended. | | | |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 20:47 - Mar 16 with 687 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 19:50 - Mar 16 by giant_stow |
What grim news. As Cotty says above, this is bad news for all of us. I read someone earlier make the point that this scepticism could possibly leak over all covid vaccines. |
It is a worry, but don't fall for the attempts to link this specifically to Macron's recent handling of the AZ vaccine issue. That seems to be a politically motivated smear (not sure why considering they're a different country).
The French have always been the most cynical nation in Europe (world?) on vaccines, with a consistent ~50% disapproval rate for as long as I've been seeing the surveys.
Vaccine distrust in France is nothing new at all. |  |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 20:58 - Mar 16 with 672 views | jimmyvet |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 20:47 - Mar 16 by Swansea_Blue |
It is a worry, but don't fall for the attempts to link this specifically to Macron's recent handling of the AZ vaccine issue. That seems to be a politically motivated smear (not sure why considering they're a different country).
The French have always been the most cynical nation in Europe (world?) on vaccines, with a consistent ~50% disapproval rate for as long as I've been seeing the surveys.
Vaccine distrust in France is nothing new at all. |
So how do explain the data for Pfizer is exactly the same as AZ in terms of side effects but they have suspended AZ but not Pfizer ... your explanation is please? Are you that naive that politicians wouldn’t play politics. It’s all about EU politics. | | | |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 21:06 - Mar 16 with 663 views | Moriarty |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 20:43 - Mar 16 by jimmyvet |
You still have not responded to Pfizer delivering 30% Less vaccines than agreed in Feb to the EU and why that is acceptable but AZ not delivering its stated doses is not acceptable to you or the EU. What’s the difference please? Are you sure this is not political on your part! |
(If what you say is true) it’s because at the outset, our supply levels were low. Our first batch was something like 10k in a week. We’re now trying to hit near 100k a week and double that in the second quarter.
So the ongoing failures of AZ are far more of an issue than Pfizer’s initial glitch. Pfizer are now exceeding its supply targets. | |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 21:11 - Mar 16 with 658 views | Moriarty |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 20:11 - Mar 16 by hype313 |
What's offensive by merely asking a question as to why, given both vaccines are disingenuously linked to blood clots, why one is being singled out and the other isn't?
Also, If you gave forty million people a cup of tea three of four people would die shortly afterwards from blood clots. All that we have measured is the natural rate of death from blood clots. |
Because other governments value transparency, even if it’s a value not always favoured elsewhere. | |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 21:13 - Mar 16 with 649 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 18:58 - Mar 16 by Moriarty |
There have been various expressions of frustrations with AZ from govt and govt advisory boards here.
It’s not a PR game. Not with public health at stake. |
People here won't understand that. Everything in the UK has to end up as a PR game and be culture-warred to death. | |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 21:15 - Mar 16 with 644 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 20:58 - Mar 16 by jimmyvet |
So how do explain the data for Pfizer is exactly the same as AZ in terms of side effects but they have suspended AZ but not Pfizer ... your explanation is please? Are you that naive that politicians wouldn’t play politics. It’s all about EU politics. |
I'm not trying to explain it, and that had nothing to do with my point. I was commenting on efforts to link vaccine skepticism to Macron's recent behaviour. But the French have always been the most sceptical nation when it comes to the vaccines. | |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 21:22 - Mar 16 with 626 views | Moriarty |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 21:13 - Mar 16 by Swansea_Blue |
People here won't understand that. Everything in the UK has to end up as a PR game and be culture-warred to death. |
It’s Boris’s wet dream. Vaccine nationalism and EU skepticism.
It really is extraordinary how some people in the U.K. can’t or won’t understand that the motivation in the suspension is caution and transparency, both of which counter anti vax ideologies which are rampant on social media and elsewhere. It’s a short stop for a greater good. How some posters on here persistently interpret that as political malice is astounding.
Throughout the suspension, it has been said time after time by the Irish govt that they have every confidence in the safety AZ, which is easily inferred as well from our frustration with their supply failures. [Post edited 16 Mar 2021 21:23]
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 21:38 - Mar 16 with 608 views | jimmyvet |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 21:22 - Mar 16 by Moriarty |
It’s Boris’s wet dream. Vaccine nationalism and EU skepticism.
It really is extraordinary how some people in the U.K. can’t or won’t understand that the motivation in the suspension is caution and transparency, both of which counter anti vax ideologies which are rampant on social media and elsewhere. It’s a short stop for a greater good. How some posters on here persistently interpret that as political malice is astounding.
Throughout the suspension, it has been said time after time by the Irish govt that they have every confidence in the safety AZ, which is easily inferred as well from our frustration with their supply failures. [Post edited 16 Mar 2021 21:23]
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So it’s not about politics then !! Your first sent disputes that I think 🤔 | | | |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 22:04 - Mar 16 with 592 views | Darth_Koont |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 21:22 - Mar 16 by Moriarty |
It’s Boris’s wet dream. Vaccine nationalism and EU skepticism.
It really is extraordinary how some people in the U.K. can’t or won’t understand that the motivation in the suspension is caution and transparency, both of which counter anti vax ideologies which are rampant on social media and elsewhere. It’s a short stop for a greater good. How some posters on here persistently interpret that as political malice is astounding.
Throughout the suspension, it has been said time after time by the Irish govt that they have every confidence in the safety AZ, which is easily inferred as well from our frustration with their supply failures. [Post edited 16 Mar 2021 21:23]
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Good luck with that.
You’re right but the UK is a Trumpian bubble. |  |
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