| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 08:26 - Mar 18 with 1942 views | SomethingBlue |
Can absolutely see this government wriggling out of a public inquiry. "What the people of this country want is to move on and rebuild ... " |  |
|  |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 08:36 - Mar 18 with 1897 views | giant_stow |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 08:26 - Mar 18 by SomethingBlue |
Can absolutely see this government wriggling out of a public inquiry. "What the people of this country want is to move on and rebuild ... " |
Uncanny - if I could bet on that phrase getting an outing I would. |  |
| |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 08:40 - Mar 18 with 1879 views | GeoffSentence |
Roughly the capacity of Carrow Road.
Imagine a packed East Anglian derby, all those people gone because of poor decision making. |  |
| |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 08:40 - Mar 18 with 1878 views | WeWereZombies |
Have just caught an episode of Panorama from last March before it goes off the iPlayer:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000cfdh/panorama-coronavirus-the-week-tha
We knew what had to be done a year ago but failed to carry out the recommendations soon enough, i.e. the Cabinet did not follow the science in a necessary and sufficient manner, it only did what it thought it could get away with.
In mitigation I think we have to accept a point made in Evan Davis' radio programme on Tuesday morning:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000t6ql
China contained the virus quickly and effectively because their acceptance of severe authoritarian measures is reasonably well ingrained within the population, it would have been the best approach in the United Kingdom to have significantly reduced infections and deaths but would probably not have worked because of a rebellious push back to protect hard fought for freedoms. |  |
| |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 08:48 - Mar 18 with 1855 views | lowhouseblue |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 08:36 - Mar 18 by giant_stow |
Uncanny - if I could bet on that phrase getting an outing I would. |
there has to be a full inquiry - you can't have something on this scale and not learn the lessons.
the graph in the guardian article obviously begs the question of how the emergence of the new variant affected planning at that time. without a proper inquiry we won't start to get answers to questions like that. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 08:49 - Mar 18 with 1845 views | TractorWood |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 08:26 - Mar 18 by SomethingBlue |
Can absolutely see this government wriggling out of a public inquiry. "What the people of this country want is to move on and rebuild ... " |
Agree. However, is an investigation going to tell us anything new from that article or what's obviously true. We locked down late 3 times after faffing and denial. It was Boris' fault because he doesn't get it, has a lame duck and sycophantic cabinet.
We had zero preparedness due to years of cuts and underfunding to our overworked and underpaid health service.
I just see a scenario where we have a 2,000 page, 3 year and £70m inquiry and it just has the same findings as that article. |  |
| |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:05 - Mar 18 with 1787 views | Kieran_Knows |
When is Johnson and his cronies going to be put up in front of a court for their utter negligence of the whole situation? |  |
| |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:12 - Mar 18 with 1760 views | Darth_Koont |
We shouldn’t be surprised.
Chuck in austerity deaths and underfunding of public services including the NHS and mental health and we’ve got a government that’s been happy reversing progress in public health and going against clinical research.
Because guess what? The proles don’t matter. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:14 - Mar 18 with 1750 views | SomethingBlue |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 08:49 - Mar 18 by TractorWood |
Agree. However, is an investigation going to tell us anything new from that article or what's obviously true. We locked down late 3 times after faffing and denial. It was Boris' fault because he doesn't get it, has a lame duck and sycophantic cabinet.
We had zero preparedness due to years of cuts and underfunding to our overworked and underpaid health service.
I just see a scenario where we have a 2,000 page, 3 year and £70m inquiry and it just has the same findings as that article. |
Johnson will announce some sort of nebulous "review" that will never really see the light of day. They can price in confidently that not enough of the public really care about holding them to account — and that now they wouldn't be able to protest if they did, come to that! [Post edited 18 Mar 2021 9:15]
| |
| |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:24 - Mar 18 with 1709 views | Churchman |
I can forgive the lateness of the first lockdown (though to most people it was clear something needed to be done a week or two before. I can forgive the lack of preparation - pandemics were not on any western country’s agenda. Even PPE shambles - not helped by Macron grabbing supplies bought and paid for by the U.K.
I can’t forgive the criminal waste on track and trace that was fundamentally flawed in how it was set up due to their obsession with the private sector. It could never succeed. And worst of all, their handling of the second wave. They should have learned from the first and didn’t. They looked for reasons not to and worried about things like Christmas because of public opinion, which in the great scheme of things didn’t matter.
Ok the vaccine programme to date has gone well and they deserve credit for that. But that doesn’t erase the last year of mess. I doubt there will be a public enquiry but I hope they at the very least are called to account at the ballot box. By then the excess deaths figures for this period will be out and while I suspect they will look much of a muchness with other European countries, nothing can take away their accountability for the awful mistakes made. |  | | |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:25 - Mar 18 with 1711 views | factual_blue |
A person should be employed to recite continuously to boris, for the rest of his life, the names of twenty-seven thousand victims of the pandemic. Each name should be followed by a couple of sentences about them, and conclude with the words 'killed by your incompetence'. He should never, ever be allowed to forget.
At least the twenty thousand killed on the first day of The Somme were in a shooting war. |  |
| |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:27 - Mar 18 with 1701 views | Steve_M |
If only it could have been predicted..... |  |
| |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:29 - Mar 18 with 1688 views | Swansea_Blue |
Isn't that a bit misleading? 27K is the number of extra deaths contained in that peak, but the new variant caught us by surprise and it would have been hard to act quickly enough to stop any rise in deaths. We acted quicker here in Wales (still not quickly enough) and still had a rapid increase.
They certainly could have acted quicker though - even if England was paying attention to Wales and shut down straight away, the outcome would have been much better. People were saying this at the time too, so there's no hindsight involved. This was at the time when the Government were threatening to fine councils and schools who wanted to close. That was a month after we knew there was a major problem.
You could also argue that with much better control earlier on there may not even have been the new variant in the first place. Maybe could have been avoided altogether. |  |
| |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:29 - Mar 18 with 1687 views | ElderGrizzly |
And that is just from the Winter lockdown. Not the slowness from last March.
A lot of people should be going to jail or at the very least be sacked. The likelihood is they'll get Knighthoods/Lordships instead... |  | | |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:35 - Mar 18 with 1660 views | hype313 |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:27 - Mar 18 by Steve_M |
If only it could have been predicted..... |
They were all too busy shaking hands with everyone. |  |
| |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:36 - Mar 18 with 1658 views | Timefliesbyintheblue |
If you had a choice between a full independently led public enquiry, with results published for all to see, or no enquiry but Boris Johnson stripped from office to spend the rest of his life in purgatory, which would you chose.
I prefer the first, indeed I think we should definitely have the first.
I ask the question because I believe some on here have the wrong motives! | | | |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:37 - Mar 18 with 1643 views | SomethingBlue |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:36 - Mar 18 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
If you had a choice between a full independently led public enquiry, with results published for all to see, or no enquiry but Boris Johnson stripped from office to spend the rest of his life in purgatory, which would you chose.
I prefer the first, indeed I think we should definitely have the first.
I ask the question because I believe some on here have the wrong motives! |
We should have the first but do you genuinely believe we will get it? | |
| |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:38 - Mar 18 with 1638 views | hype313 |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:36 - Mar 18 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
If you had a choice between a full independently led public enquiry, with results published for all to see, or no enquiry but Boris Johnson stripped from office to spend the rest of his life in purgatory, which would you chose.
I prefer the first, indeed I think we should definitely have the first.
I ask the question because I believe some on here have the wrong motives! |
Do you want a bloke who missed 5 Cobra meetings on this because he thought it was essentially wibble running the show? | |
| |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:44 - Mar 18 with 1604 views | factual_blue |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:36 - Mar 18 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
If you had a choice between a full independently led public enquiry, with results published for all to see, or no enquiry but Boris Johnson stripped from office to spend the rest of his life in purgatory, which would you chose.
I prefer the first, indeed I think we should definitely have the first.
I ask the question because I believe some on here have the wrong motives! |
Both | |
| |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:45 - Mar 18 with 1601 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:36 - Mar 18 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
If you had a choice between a full independently led public enquiry, with results published for all to see, or no enquiry but Boris Johnson stripped from office to spend the rest of his life in purgatory, which would you chose.
I prefer the first, indeed I think we should definitely have the first.
I ask the question because I believe some on here have the wrong motives! |
And what's wrong with wanting both? |  |
| |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:52 - Mar 18 with 1579 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:24 - Mar 18 by Churchman |
I can forgive the lateness of the first lockdown (though to most people it was clear something needed to be done a week or two before. I can forgive the lack of preparation - pandemics were not on any western country’s agenda. Even PPE shambles - not helped by Macron grabbing supplies bought and paid for by the U.K.
I can’t forgive the criminal waste on track and trace that was fundamentally flawed in how it was set up due to their obsession with the private sector. It could never succeed. And worst of all, their handling of the second wave. They should have learned from the first and didn’t. They looked for reasons not to and worried about things like Christmas because of public opinion, which in the great scheme of things didn’t matter.
Ok the vaccine programme to date has gone well and they deserve credit for that. But that doesn’t erase the last year of mess. I doubt there will be a public enquiry but I hope they at the very least are called to account at the ballot box. By then the excess deaths figures for this period will be out and while I suspect they will look much of a muchness with other European countries, nothing can take away their accountability for the awful mistakes made. |
I think an inquiry is absolutely a must. I’ve read as much as I can about this and it seems to me that the timing of the first lockdown was in the advice of SAGE. The minutes have been released and it shows that they underestimated how prevalent the virus was in the country. Whitty is on record as saying that there was no point in shutting the borders. We should have shut them. Valance stated that he believed locking down too early would lead to lockdown fatigue and people would start mixing again too early. Jenny Harries is on record as saying that she didn’t believe stopping Cheltenham or any other sporting events would make any difference to the spread.
However, I believe the government parted with scientific advice during the period we reopened.
Johnson wanted to own the recovery for political reasons. He thought it would be his Churchill moment, winning the war against COVID. He then dithered in September/October when a two week circuit breaker was recommended. That said, a circuit breaker would have been a waste of time as shown in Wales. They came out of their circuit breaker in a worse state than when they went in. A full lockdown was the only answer in October. Johnson dithered and sat on his hands which allowed the new variant to take hold. And here we are.
Oh and the leaders of all 4 home nations royaly fcuked up with trying to save Christmas. |  |
| |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:58 - Mar 18 with 1561 views | Darth_Koont |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:36 - Mar 18 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
If you had a choice between a full independently led public enquiry, with results published for all to see, or no enquiry but Boris Johnson stripped from office to spend the rest of his life in purgatory, which would you chose.
I prefer the first, indeed I think we should definitely have the first.
I ask the question because I believe some on here have the wrong motives! |
I think the difficulty with public inquiries is that the lessons seem rarely to be learnt. And the length of them often means that politicians, the media and the public have moved on to the next circus.
I can only really think of the various Hillsborough inquiries eventually getting close after decades of pain for relatives and survivors. Basically because people rightly refused to let it go
But after Leveson we still have an awful, self-policing media. After Chilcott, Blair just refused to accept the findings and is still rolled out as some great statesman. And it seems even after the horror of Grenfell that we’re limping to a relatively weak conclusion.
Unfortunately, there’s a bigger picture issue that we generally don’t care enough to learn lessons and demand more from those with a duty of care. | |
| |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 10:00 - Mar 18 with 1558 views | GaryCooper |
Who mandated the removal of the elderly from hospital back to the care homes without test?
30K deaths. |  | | |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 10:10 - Mar 18 with 1521 views | Freddies_Ears |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 10:00 - Mar 18 by GaryCooper |
Who mandated the removal of the elderly from hospital back to the care homes without test?
30K deaths. |
That is, 30k deaths not included in the official stats, as those people were not ever tested - the mass test regime wasn't operational at the time. (Stats only include people who died after testing positive). | | | |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 10:12 - Mar 18 with 1516 views | Churchman |
| 27,000 extra deaths from not locking down soon enough on 09:52 - Mar 18 by GlasgowBlue |
I think an inquiry is absolutely a must. I’ve read as much as I can about this and it seems to me that the timing of the first lockdown was in the advice of SAGE. The minutes have been released and it shows that they underestimated how prevalent the virus was in the country. Whitty is on record as saying that there was no point in shutting the borders. We should have shut them. Valance stated that he believed locking down too early would lead to lockdown fatigue and people would start mixing again too early. Jenny Harries is on record as saying that she didn’t believe stopping Cheltenham or any other sporting events would make any difference to the spread.
However, I believe the government parted with scientific advice during the period we reopened.
Johnson wanted to own the recovery for political reasons. He thought it would be his Churchill moment, winning the war against COVID. He then dithered in September/October when a two week circuit breaker was recommended. That said, a circuit breaker would have been a waste of time as shown in Wales. They came out of their circuit breaker in a worse state than when they went in. A full lockdown was the only answer in October. Johnson dithered and sat on his hands which allowed the new variant to take hold. And here we are.
Oh and the leaders of all 4 home nations royaly fcuked up with trying to save Christmas. |
I forgot about the borders. They peddled the line that the virus was in the country so it didn’t make any difference. I couldn’t understand that. Surely adding unknown numbers to an existing problem was stupid. I thought so a year ago and I do now.
An enquiry is a must and I hope there is one, but I’m a bit cynical as to how neutral it would be and what value it will add over what we already know. If there is one, it has to be very analytical and about the decisions made at the time and in the case of preparation before. There is no room for the gift of hindsight.
I actually think we are nearing the time for a public enquiry, but not yet. Three months time, assuming the crisis eases maybe? | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
