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Playing out from the back 10:03 - Mar 22 with 2565 viewseastwell_blue

It's a bit like Brexit.
No-one seems to know what the benefits are. Defenders are being told to make it work while we can all see it isn't. Meanwhile losses are mounting up.
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Playing out from the back on 10:23 - Mar 22 with 1977 viewsJammyDodgerrr

It clearly has benefits, otherwise it wouldn't be as popular as it is. It draws the other team in and out of shape so you can pass through them. But it is one of those things, like when a goalkeeper makes an error, you only really notice it when it goes wrong, not all the good parts/saves it makes.
[Post edited 22 Mar 2021 11:51]

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Playing out from the back on 10:31 - Mar 22 with 1958 viewsSeablu

It’s fine if you have the players capable of implementing it.
It’s the very definition of stubborn stupidity when you don’t.
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Playing out from the back on 10:37 - Mar 22 with 1945 viewsWeWereZombies

Playing out from the back on 10:23 - Mar 22 by JammyDodgerrr

It clearly has benefits, otherwise it wouldn't be as popular as it is. It draws the other team in and out of shape so you can pass through them. But it is one of those things, like when a goalkeeper makes an error, you only really notice it when it goes wrong, not all the good parts/saves it makes.
[Post edited 22 Mar 2021 11:51]


Watching the start of the Leicester / Man Utd. game yesterday I though Brendan Rodgers had lost the plot and Man U would soon exploit the ponderous approach from the back (which I also found dull to watch, but the game livened up as it went on), but that initial all too careful play imposed a pattern that the home team used to control the game from there on in.
[Post edited 22 Mar 2021 11:00]

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Playing out from the back on 11:11 - Mar 22 with 1879 viewsbluebud

Who is it that's telling our Defenders to make Brexit work? That's a lot of pressure on Toto et al.
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Playing out from the back on 11:14 - Mar 22 with 1870 viewsBlueBadger

Playing out from the back on 11:11 - Mar 22 by bluebud

Who is it that's telling our Defenders to make Brexit work? That's a lot of pressure on Toto et al.


In all fairness, I'm willing to bet that Chambers, Toto, Wilson and Kenlock could negotiate a better deal than Boris, Davies, Fox and Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaab.

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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Playing out from the back on 11:26 - Mar 22 with 1842 viewsScuzzer

Playing out from the back on 10:23 - Mar 22 by JammyDodgerrr

It clearly has benefits, otherwise it wouldn't be as popular as it is. It draws the other team in and out of shape so you can pass through them. But it is one of those things, like when a goalkeeper makes an error, you only really notice it when it goes wrong, not all the good parts/saves it makes.
[Post edited 22 Mar 2021 11:51]


It demonstrably has no benefits at all. Nine times out of ten it only gets lobbed forward in the end in any case.
It came from the change in the rule regarding goal kicks, the allowing of defenders in the penalty area. Note that this change was first introduced in the women's game.
It was only brought in to pander to the likes of Man City whose boring possession based football would benefit from it.
As a schoolboy the first thing they taught you as a defender was to not pass the ball along in front of your own goal...i wonder why that was? It is a monstrosity.

Established 1968

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Playing out from the back on 11:31 - Mar 22 with 1826 viewseastwell_blue

Playing out from the back on 10:23 - Mar 22 by JammyDodgerrr

It clearly has benefits, otherwise it wouldn't be as popular as it is. It draws the other team in and out of shape so you can pass through them. But it is one of those things, like when a goalkeeper makes an error, you only really notice it when it goes wrong, not all the good parts/saves it makes.
[Post edited 22 Mar 2021 11:51]


Well if even the 2nd best team in England can't get it right you begin to wonder if it's the system that's at fault. How having 4 defenders encamped in your own area and effectively out of the game is pulling the opposition out of shape is anyone's guess.
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Playing out from the back on 11:35 - Mar 22 with 1816 views44_not_out

Playing out from the back on 11:26 - Mar 22 by Scuzzer

It demonstrably has no benefits at all. Nine times out of ten it only gets lobbed forward in the end in any case.
It came from the change in the rule regarding goal kicks, the allowing of defenders in the penalty area. Note that this change was first introduced in the women's game.
It was only brought in to pander to the likes of Man City whose boring possession based football would benefit from it.
As a schoolboy the first thing they taught you as a defender was to not pass the ball along in front of your own goal...i wonder why that was? It is a monstrosity.


Be careful, the NS’s will call it ‘hoofball’ and get angry

Ah, the days of those diagonal balls to Steve Whitton to nod it into the channel for Kiwomya or Kelvin Davis smashing it to Kuqi to flick on for Bent.... or dare I say, using Mariner as a target man for Brazil/Gates.
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Playing out from the back on 11:43 - Mar 22 with 1794 viewsSwansea_Blue

Playing out from the back on 10:31 - Mar 22 by Seablu

It’s fine if you have the players capable of implementing it.
It’s the very definition of stubborn stupidity when you don’t.


Yes, I don't think playing out from the back normally means hoofing it 65 yards straight to the opposition keeper! (Looking at you James Wilson...).

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Playing out from the back on 11:43 - Mar 22 with 1794 viewseastwell_blue

Playing out from the back on 11:26 - Mar 22 by Scuzzer

It demonstrably has no benefits at all. Nine times out of ten it only gets lobbed forward in the end in any case.
It came from the change in the rule regarding goal kicks, the allowing of defenders in the penalty area. Note that this change was first introduced in the women's game.
It was only brought in to pander to the likes of Man City whose boring possession based football would benefit from it.
As a schoolboy the first thing they taught you as a defender was to not pass the ball along in front of your own goal...i wonder why that was? It is a monstrosity.


Exactly. After 30 seconds of near suicide it invariably goes back to the keeper who launches it into touch. It really is a case of emperor's new clothes.
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Playing out from the back on 11:46 - Mar 22 with 1785 viewsSwansea_Blue

Playing out from the back on 11:26 - Mar 22 by Scuzzer

It demonstrably has no benefits at all. Nine times out of ten it only gets lobbed forward in the end in any case.
It came from the change in the rule regarding goal kicks, the allowing of defenders in the penalty area. Note that this change was first introduced in the women's game.
It was only brought in to pander to the likes of Man City whose boring possession based football would benefit from it.
As a schoolboy the first thing they taught you as a defender was to not pass the ball along in front of your own goal...i wonder why that was? It is a monstrosity.


IF you have a team who can keep the ball throughout the team, it's just a simple matter of percentages. The other team can't score if they don't have the ball - its the best form of defence. You still have to be able to create and score of course. And on that front, a lot of plays are worked out on the basis of resetting and 'going again' from the back, dragging teams out of position to create overloads in one area of the pitch. Again, you need a team that's well drilled and knows what it's doing there too.

It looks bad for us as we don't have the players and haven't been well-drilled in playing that way.
[Post edited 22 Mar 2021 11:49]

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Playing out from the back on 11:51 - Mar 22 with 1774 viewsjudespiveyg

It honestly depends if you have strikers who can header. Take Ipswich, we don't really have any forwards who are going to win a header against League One centre halves, so we'd effectively be giving the ball straight to the other team. Passing out from the back at least allows for the opportunity of ball retention. It's handy to be able to do both though.
[Post edited 22 Mar 2021 11:52]

I survived Ipswich 0-0 Burton

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Playing out from the back on 11:51 - Mar 22 with 1770 viewsbraveblue

It is a bit like Brexit. Those that can’t do it or understand why think it’s a bad idea.
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Playing out from the back on 11:57 - Mar 22 with 1749 viewsfabian_illness

Ipswich’s attempts on goal have all but dried up since our former glorious leader, Paul III, drilled this philosophy into the current crop of shirt fillers.
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Playing out from the back on 12:36 - Mar 22 with 1688 viewsBlueBadger

Playing out from the back on 11:51 - Mar 22 by braveblue

It is a bit like Brexit. Those that can’t do it or understand why think it’s a bad idea.


One is a system which, if you haven't got the basic competence and personmel to implement it and work for the benefit of all you should think again very closely, the other is a f**king stupid idea which is bad for everyone and only idiots who are motivated by the idea of blue passports and xenophobia think it's worth pursuing.

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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Playing out from the back on 12:55 - Mar 22 with 1657 viewsBlueBadger

Playing out from the back on 11:35 - Mar 22 by 44_not_out

Be careful, the NS’s will call it ‘hoofball’ and get angry

Ah, the days of those diagonal balls to Steve Whitton to nod it into the channel for Kiwomya or Kelvin Davis smashing it to Kuqi to flick on for Bent.... or dare I say, using Mariner as a target man for Brazil/Gates.


Hell, even the long punt out to Scowie or Walters on the right...

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Playing out from the back on 13:02 - Mar 22 with 1643 viewsTimefliesbyintheblue

Playing out from the back on 12:36 - Mar 22 by BlueBadger

One is a system which, if you haven't got the basic competence and personmel to implement it and work for the benefit of all you should think again very closely, the other is a f**king stupid idea which is bad for everyone and only idiots who are motivated by the idea of blue passports and xenophobia think it's worth pursuing.


Oh dear I will be in your bad books! I voted for Brexit, love my red passport and those who know me of all persuasions would laugh at you for labeling me xenophobic. Oh and I also disagree with you that it was the fault of the police for the behaviour in Bristol last evening.
As for this thread (and why can't folk stick to the subject; I do not believe that the third tier of English football has players of good enough ability to deploy this system to the desired effect.
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Playing out from the back on 13:21 - Mar 22 with 1623 viewsBlueBadger

Playing out from the back on 13:02 - Mar 22 by Timefliesbyintheblue

Oh dear I will be in your bad books! I voted for Brexit, love my red passport and those who know me of all persuasions would laugh at you for labeling me xenophobic. Oh and I also disagree with you that it was the fault of the police for the behaviour in Bristol last evening.
As for this thread (and why can't folk stick to the subject; I do not believe that the third tier of English football has players of good enough ability to deploy this system to the desired effect.


Hey I'm fair minded. Not everybody who voted leave was racist and stupid.

Some were just stupid.

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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Playing out from the back on 13:25 - Mar 22 with 1617 viewsHullblue

Playing out from the back on 11:26 - Mar 22 by Scuzzer

It demonstrably has no benefits at all. Nine times out of ten it only gets lobbed forward in the end in any case.
It came from the change in the rule regarding goal kicks, the allowing of defenders in the penalty area. Note that this change was first introduced in the women's game.
It was only brought in to pander to the likes of Man City whose boring possession based football would benefit from it.
As a schoolboy the first thing they taught you as a defender was to not pass the ball along in front of your own goal...i wonder why that was? It is a monstrosity.


Quite a few false statements in here, Scuzzer.

If it's demonstrable why haven't you demonstrated it? Bar the nine times out of ten line which I'm pretty sure is an exaggeration to make the point.

Teams were playing out from the back way before the change in the goal kick rule, although I accept it's made it easier to start an attack like that and might have encouraged more teams to do it. It's notable though that given the choice, almost every decent team you can think of is playing it short, because they know the control it provides is worth the risks.

Not sure why you think it's relevant that it was first introduced in the women's game?

On your pandering point, it was actually (at least partly) brought in for the opposite reason. Previously the team with the goal kick had a get out of jail free card when taking short goal kicks. If the ball was travelling towards the defender from the GK and they were being closed down, they could enter the area to receive the ball, and would be allowed to retake the goal kick. Now, they don't have that same option.

That was the first thing I was taught as a schoolboy too, but then my coach was just someone's Dad - not a highly paid professional who has access to data, video analysis and world class players to implement his game plan. Whatever we were taught as schoolboys isn't really relevant, is it?

Also, do you really find Man City boring? Fair enough - each to their own.

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Playing out from the back on 14:59 - Mar 22 with 1529 viewsScuzzer

Playing out from the back on 11:35 - Mar 22 by 44_not_out

Be careful, the NS’s will call it ‘hoofball’ and get angry

Ah, the days of those diagonal balls to Steve Whitton to nod it into the channel for Kiwomya or Kelvin Davis smashing it to Kuqi to flick on for Bent.... or dare I say, using Mariner as a target man for Brazil/Gates.


Indeed.

Established 1968

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Playing out from the back on 15:09 - Mar 22 with 1501 viewsthegloryyears

Playing out from the back on 12:36 - Mar 22 by BlueBadger

One is a system which, if you haven't got the basic competence and personmel to implement it and work for the benefit of all you should think again very closely, the other is a f**king stupid idea which is bad for everyone and only idiots who are motivated by the idea of blue passports and xenophobia think it's worth pursuing.


One is a system which is great when you have Premier League Quality Ball Players (We don't)
the other is a wonderful opportunity to go forward as a Country without being held back by Bureaucrats in Brussels - Hasn't the Covid Vaccine Rollout taught you anything yet about being in Europe?
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Playing out from the back on 17:53 - Mar 22 with 1448 viewsScuzzer

Playing out from the back on 11:35 - Mar 22 by 44_not_out

Be careful, the NS’s will call it ‘hoofball’ and get angry

Ah, the days of those diagonal balls to Steve Whitton to nod it into the channel for Kiwomya or Kelvin Davis smashing it to Kuqi to flick on for Bent.... or dare I say, using Mariner as a target man for Brazil/Gates.


Indeed.

Established 1968

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Playing out from the back on 18:41 - Mar 22 with 1415 viewshaynes_toe1

It serves no benefit to us because we arent good enough to play it.

Whilst we have, for this division, a fairly technical side overall, we don't have two CBs who are composed enough to delay the pass that extra half second when being pressed which often makes all the difference.

We also don't have a number 8 who has the movement, football intelligence and passing ability to always offer an option for defenders and perhaps accept being man marked in order for others to find space.

Its often most effective if you've tired the opposition from relentless ball retention but we give it away too easily which gives the opposition regular respite.

If you can play through the initial press in your own third you've got space in midfield for runners to drive into. Instead, we pass about with zero conviction and when we inevitably go long, the opposition has had plenty of time to organise themselves.

I was hoping to see this change under Cook as regardless of personnel quality there is an opportunity to go more direct and become more effective but its not happened.
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Playing out from the back on 18:51 - Mar 22 with 1410 viewsbraveblue

Playing out from the back on 12:36 - Mar 22 by BlueBadger

One is a system which, if you haven't got the basic competence and personmel to implement it and work for the benefit of all you should think again very closely, the other is a f**king stupid idea which is bad for everyone and only idiots who are motivated by the idea of blue passports and xenophobia think it's worth pursuing.


A well thought out argument!! Really, this extreme behaviour is not necessary.
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Playing out from the back on 21:28 - Mar 22 with 1323 viewsBlueBadger

Playing out from the back on 18:51 - Mar 22 by braveblue

A well thought out argument!! Really, this extreme behaviour is not necessary.


You'd think that someone calling themselves 'brave blue' could handle some light bantz.

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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