| Apologies for not checking the family tree.... on 14:15 - Mar 31 with 936 views | BiGDonnie |
| Apologies for not checking the family tree.... on 14:07 - Mar 31 by Bloots |
....of a random picture of a sheep from the internet.
#SLM
You still haven't really answered the question, but life's too short. |
You're telling me you just presumed the heritage of said sheep.
You make me sick. |  |
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| You must be being purposely obtuse..... on 14:15 - Mar 31 with 929 views | Bloots |
| Apologies for not checking the family tree.... on 14:11 - Mar 31 by eireblue |
I have answered.
Sorry that you don’t seem to like the response. |
....surely?
Classic "point missing"..... by Bloots 31 Mar 2021 12:53....coupled with a sense of humour by pass.
My original point, as I'm sure you know, was - Does a vegan object to using wool, that was removed from a wild sheep for the sheep's benefit, being used in the manufacture of clothing?
If they do (which I expect they will) then why?
You've said it's OK if the animal is dead.
My question was specifically about using a bi-product of potentially saving a wild animal's life. |  |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Wedgies weren't banned..... on 14:17 - Mar 31 with 918 views | Bloots |
| I can remember numerous instances of being..... on 14:14 - Mar 31 by leitrimblue |
Have a strange feeling you were no stranger to a wedgie or two as well? |
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| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| And that's fine, as long as..... on 14:17 - Mar 31 with 918 views | eireblue |
| And that's fine, as long as..... on 14:12 - Mar 31 by Bloots |
...the analogy reflects the question.
I think using an analogy about kids being in prison is a bit of a stretch when the question was about a wild sheep!
Meh. |
Equal consideration.
The sheep is an environment not of its own choosing, it doesn’t have any ability to change that, and its well-being is controlled by human adults.
What human analogy would you suggest? |  | | |
| I will be attending..... on 14:18 - Mar 31 with 912 views | Bloots |
| Apologies for not checking the family tree.... on 14:15 - Mar 31 by BiGDonnie |
You're telling me you just presumed the heritage of said sheep.
You make me sick. |
...."re-education and sheep awareness" classes as a result. | |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| None, just a yes or no would have done. (n/t) on 14:19 - Mar 31 with 910 views | Bloots |
| And that's fine, as long as..... on 14:17 - Mar 31 by eireblue |
Equal consideration.
The sheep is an environment not of its own choosing, it doesn’t have any ability to change that, and its well-being is controlled by human adults.
What human analogy would you suggest? |
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| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| I was going to one of those but was on 14:29 - Mar 31 with 901 views | Keno |
| I will be attending..... on 14:18 - Mar 31 by Bloots |
...."re-education and sheep awareness" classes as a result. |
Baaaaaarred |  |
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| You must be being purposely obtuse..... on 14:29 - Mar 31 with 905 views | eireblue |
| You must be being purposely obtuse..... on 14:15 - Mar 31 by Bloots |
....surely?
Classic "point missing"..... by Bloots 31 Mar 2021 12:53....coupled with a sense of humour by pass.
My original point, as I'm sure you know, was - Does a vegan object to using wool, that was removed from a wild sheep for the sheep's benefit, being used in the manufacture of clothing?
If they do (which I expect they will) then why?
You've said it's OK if the animal is dead.
My question was specifically about using a bi-product of potentially saving a wild animal's life. |
Wool from an Australian sheep is not the bi-product of a wild animal.
I already stated, being nice to fellow mammals is fine.
If someone saves a wild animals life, why does the bi-product of such a rescue need to be monetised?
I like how I am being characterised as being tetchy, obtuse and lacking omega 3’s.
Do you really want to understand the thoughts of a vegan on a vegan topic?
Or is my question about monetisation going to be seen as deflection again.
I can keep it simple. I wouldn’t buy animal derived products as you have described. | | | |
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| Wedgies weren't banned..... on 14:34 - Mar 31 with 894 views | leitrimblue |
| Wedgies weren't banned..... on 14:17 - Mar 31 by Bloots |
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I've personally been boycotting swimming pools since the banning of bombing |  | | |
| Not sure why you brought money into it..... on 14:37 - Mar 31 with 886 views | Bloots |
| You must be being purposely obtuse..... on 14:29 - Mar 31 by eireblue |
Wool from an Australian sheep is not the bi-product of a wild animal.
I already stated, being nice to fellow mammals is fine.
If someone saves a wild animals life, why does the bi-product of such a rescue need to be monetised?
I like how I am being characterised as being tetchy, obtuse and lacking omega 3’s.
Do you really want to understand the thoughts of a vegan on a vegan topic?
Or is my question about monetisation going to be seen as deflection again.
I can keep it simple. I wouldn’t buy animal derived products as you have described. |
....I didn't, so yes it certainly is a deflection!
As a result, you still haven't answered the question. | |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Not sure why you brought money into it..... on 14:59 - Mar 31 with 859 views | eireblue |
| Not sure why you brought money into it..... on 14:37 - Mar 31 by Bloots |
....I didn't, so yes it certainly is a deflection!
As a result, you still haven't answered the question. |
I like how you don’t respond to any questions, but keep pointing out your questioned framed in your context didn’t get an answer you like.
It’s not really the hair trimmings that are important, to the human, more how you treat the human.
If you rescued a human from certain death, and had to trim their hair in order to do that, maybe someone with very long hair being caught up in a Spinning Jenny, lets go with that. I am sure the human would probably be okay with you using their hair afterwards.
I would use that scenario to apply equal consideration. [Post edited 31 Mar 2021 15:00]
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| There can't be an answer that I like..... on 15:07 - Mar 31 with 855 views | Bloots |
| Not sure why you brought money into it..... on 14:59 - Mar 31 by eireblue |
I like how you don’t respond to any questions, but keep pointing out your questioned framed in your context didn’t get an answer you like.
It’s not really the hair trimmings that are important, to the human, more how you treat the human.
If you rescued a human from certain death, and had to trim their hair in order to do that, maybe someone with very long hair being caught up in a Spinning Jenny, lets go with that. I am sure the human would probably be okay with you using their hair afterwards.
I would use that scenario to apply equal consideration. [Post edited 31 Mar 2021 15:00]
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....or dislike, because it's your/a vegans answer that I was curious about.
My view isn't important and I haven't expressed it during this painful discussion. I don't have any skin in the game, I was just curious.
I believe that some humans quite happily grow their hair and then cut it and sell it for hair extensions.
I assume that equates to equal consideration. | |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| There can't be an answer that I like..... on 15:18 - Mar 31 with 843 views | eireblue |
| There can't be an answer that I like..... on 15:07 - Mar 31 by Bloots |
....or dislike, because it's your/a vegans answer that I was curious about.
My view isn't important and I haven't expressed it during this painful discussion. I don't have any skin in the game, I was just curious.
I believe that some humans quite happily grow their hair and then cut it and sell it for hair extensions.
I assume that equates to equal consideration. |
Yes, if an animal chooses to and is able to monetise something they produce, of course they can do that.
Really sorry if it is painful for you, you can always stop, you are a human and have that choice.
Being a vegan, this is a fairly straightforward and enjoyable distraction on a very dull work day for me. Stokie is the one that has made me have to think a bit before.
And I have a new analogy I have tried out, that I could use in real life.
I am happy to keep playing if you want? | | | |
| I thought that my original question was fairly simple.... on 15:28 - Mar 31 with 833 views | Bloots |
| There can't be an answer that I like..... on 15:18 - Mar 31 by eireblue |
Yes, if an animal chooses to and is able to monetise something they produce, of course they can do that.
Really sorry if it is painful for you, you can always stop, you are a human and have that choice.
Being a vegan, this is a fairly straightforward and enjoyable distraction on a very dull work day for me. Stokie is the one that has made me have to think a bit before.
And I have a new analogy I have tried out, that I could use in real life.
I am happy to keep playing if you want? |
....but you seem to have complicated it by involving the "nationality" of the sheep and bringing money into the question.
Neither of those points are, in my view, relevant in this situation.
If a "non confined" animal is noticed to be struggling and as a result a human intervention benefits that animal, then I'm sure you are comfortable with that. Quite rightly.
If that human intervention results in a natural resource being available, then surely that resource (in this case some wool!) can be used to benefit others.
I get the impression that you are struggling to accept this premise because it goes against your deeply held principles and as a result are adding in irrelevant variables and using analogies.
Just my human view, obviously. | |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| I thought that my original question was fairly simple.... on 15:49 - Mar 31 with 821 views | eireblue |
| I thought that my original question was fairly simple.... on 15:28 - Mar 31 by Bloots |
....but you seem to have complicated it by involving the "nationality" of the sheep and bringing money into the question.
Neither of those points are, in my view, relevant in this situation.
If a "non confined" animal is noticed to be struggling and as a result a human intervention benefits that animal, then I'm sure you are comfortable with that. Quite rightly.
If that human intervention results in a natural resource being available, then surely that resource (in this case some wool!) can be used to benefit others.
I get the impression that you are struggling to accept this premise because it goes against your deeply held principles and as a result are adding in irrelevant variables and using analogies.
Just my human view, obviously. |
"Nationality".....lol.........come on...... you surely understand the relevance of the sheep being in Australia?
I have already stated that I am comfortable with that premise, even to the extent of saying, if you come across a dead animal, sure eat it.
Some people characterise veganism as telling others that they can't eat meat. I don't, find roadkill, eat roadkill, your choice.
Same with wool, discarded during a rescue attempt or found from after an animal has done a bit of shedding, is not really an issue. Use it if you want, the sheep won't mind.
The question you raised was about a wild animal.
How is that now different from a "non confined" animal, why the need to introduce a new term? | | | |
| I bought a jumper once on 15:59 - Mar 31 with 813 views | factual_blue |
| I bought a jumper once on 11:00 - Mar 31 by Keno |
I was really stitched up |
Well, you are a knit. |  |
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| I thought that my original question was fairly simple.... on 16:13 - Mar 31 with 801 views | jeera |
| I thought that my original question was fairly simple.... on 15:49 - Mar 31 by eireblue |
"Nationality".....lol.........come on...... you surely understand the relevance of the sheep being in Australia?
I have already stated that I am comfortable with that premise, even to the extent of saying, if you come across a dead animal, sure eat it.
Some people characterise veganism as telling others that they can't eat meat. I don't, find roadkill, eat roadkill, your choice.
Same with wool, discarded during a rescue attempt or found from after an animal has done a bit of shedding, is not really an issue. Use it if you want, the sheep won't mind.
The question you raised was about a wild animal.
How is that now different from a "non confined" animal, why the need to introduce a new term? |
I suppose the moral argument here needs to be whether it's still ok to breed domesticated sheep as they need to be sheared. The point is whether those breeds should exist because they wouldn't exist naturally.
I do know that domesticated sheep pick up all sorts of nasties in their wool, which can also become matted if not checked and cause all sorts of skin problems.
Wild sheep could shed themselves as a natural process so are/were a different matter altogether.
As for *that* film showing shearing to be cruel it has to be doubtful that's the norm as this article is keen to point out understandably:
https://www.asas.org/taking-stock/blog-post/taking-stock/2014/07/14/there-is-no- |  |
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| Mainly because when I said "wild"..... on 16:24 - Mar 31 with 804 views | Bloots |
| I thought that my original question was fairly simple.... on 15:49 - Mar 31 by eireblue |
"Nationality".....lol.........come on...... you surely understand the relevance of the sheep being in Australia?
I have already stated that I am comfortable with that premise, even to the extent of saying, if you come across a dead animal, sure eat it.
Some people characterise veganism as telling others that they can't eat meat. I don't, find roadkill, eat roadkill, your choice.
Same with wool, discarded during a rescue attempt or found from after an animal has done a bit of shedding, is not really an issue. Use it if you want, the sheep won't mind.
The question you raised was about a wild animal.
How is that now different from a "non confined" animal, why the need to introduce a new term? |
....you brought the sheeps (Chris) nationality into it, saying that sheep where introduced to Australia therefore couldn't be "wild".
Surely you understand the irrelevance of Chris' nationality?
I think we are nearly there now.
Although you still won't go the whole hog (domestic, Australian or otherwise) in committing to the scenario I originally brought up.
Long live Chris, and all his wooly socks. | |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Mainly because when I said "wild"..... on 16:57 - Mar 31 with 774 views | WeWereZombies |
| Mainly because when I said "wild"..... on 16:24 - Mar 31 by Bloots |
....you brought the sheeps (Chris) nationality into it, saying that sheep where introduced to Australia therefore couldn't be "wild".
Surely you understand the irrelevance of Chris' nationality?
I think we are nearly there now.
Although you still won't go the whole hog (domestic, Australian or otherwise) in committing to the scenario I originally brought up.
Long live Chris, and all his wooly socks. |
Chris could be short for Christine...I reckon from the photo the sheep looks more like a Christine than a Christopher... |  |
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| Mainly because when I said "wild"..... on 17:15 - Mar 31 with 766 views | eireblue |
| Mainly because when I said "wild"..... on 16:24 - Mar 31 by Bloots |
....you brought the sheeps (Chris) nationality into it, saying that sheep where introduced to Australia therefore couldn't be "wild".
Surely you understand the irrelevance of Chris' nationality?
I think we are nearly there now.
Although you still won't go the whole hog (domestic, Australian or otherwise) in committing to the scenario I originally brought up.
Long live Chris, and all his wooly socks. |
No.
I am not sure you have fully understood the relevance.
The point about Australia, is that the sheep in Australia haven’t evolved to meet the conditions in Australia.
Hence the prison part of the analogy. They are in an unnatural environment, whether they are wild or farmed.
There are wild sheep in America, that don’t have the problem of wool build up, since they have evolved to be sheep that are adapted to their environment.
The wool build up is a consequence of human activity.
I have committed to the scenario you brought up. You don’t like the answer, which is fine.
I know you like these analogies.
If I took an Saharan tribe, stuck them in the Antarctic in the clothing they had developed for the Sahara, then wired them up to generate electricity from their shivering, I don’t think the main point is the nationality on their passport. | | | |
| Mainly because when I said "wild"..... on 17:19 - Mar 31 with 749 views | jeera |
| Mainly because when I said "wild"..... on 17:15 - Mar 31 by eireblue |
No.
I am not sure you have fully understood the relevance.
The point about Australia, is that the sheep in Australia haven’t evolved to meet the conditions in Australia.
Hence the prison part of the analogy. They are in an unnatural environment, whether they are wild or farmed.
There are wild sheep in America, that don’t have the problem of wool build up, since they have evolved to be sheep that are adapted to their environment.
The wool build up is a consequence of human activity.
I have committed to the scenario you brought up. You don’t like the answer, which is fine.
I know you like these analogies.
If I took an Saharan tribe, stuck them in the Antarctic in the clothing they had developed for the Sahara, then wired them up to generate electricity from their shivering, I don’t think the main point is the nationality on their passport. |
"If I took an Saharan tribe, stuck them in the Antarctic in the clothing they had developed for the Sahara, then wired them up to generate electricity from their shivering".
Putting aside the ethical aspect of that.
I wonder if it would work. | |
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| Mainly because when I said "wild"..... on 17:22 - Mar 31 with 744 views | bluelagos |
| Mainly because when I said "wild"..... on 17:19 - Mar 31 by jeera |
"If I took an Saharan tribe, stuck them in the Antarctic in the clothing they had developed for the Sahara, then wired them up to generate electricity from their shivering".
Putting aside the ethical aspect of that.
I wonder if it would work. |
Well, there's a sky slope in Dubai if that helps. |  |
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| Mainly because when I said "wild"..... on 17:27 - Mar 31 with 737 views | jeera |
| Mainly because when I said "wild"..... on 17:22 - Mar 31 by bluelagos |
Well, there's a sky slope in Dubai if that helps. |
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| If I hadn't added that picture in..... on 17:29 - Mar 31 with 738 views | Bloots |
| Mainly because when I said "wild"..... on 17:15 - Mar 31 by eireblue |
No.
I am not sure you have fully understood the relevance.
The point about Australia, is that the sheep in Australia haven’t evolved to meet the conditions in Australia.
Hence the prison part of the analogy. They are in an unnatural environment, whether they are wild or farmed.
There are wild sheep in America, that don’t have the problem of wool build up, since they have evolved to be sheep that are adapted to their environment.
The wool build up is a consequence of human activity.
I have committed to the scenario you brought up. You don’t like the answer, which is fine.
I know you like these analogies.
If I took an Saharan tribe, stuck them in the Antarctic in the clothing they had developed for the Sahara, then wired them up to generate electricity from their shivering, I don’t think the main point is the nationality on their passport. |
....the the fact that Chris (he/she/it) is Australian wouldn't have even been mentioned.
Poor old Chris getting dragged into this discussion, I feel sorry for him/her/it.
You seem intent on telling me that I don't like your answer, I have no problem with it, I just struggled to see how you had to bring so many variations into it.
This wasn't set up for an argument, it was (as I've said) a genuine question.
Not sure what you've got against the Saharans either. Surely you'd just give them a wooly jumper to keep them warm? | |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Mainly because when I said "wild"..... on 17:29 - Mar 31 with 737 views | eireblue |
| Mainly because when I said "wild"..... on 17:19 - Mar 31 by jeera |
"If I took an Saharan tribe, stuck them in the Antarctic in the clothing they had developed for the Sahara, then wired them up to generate electricity from their shivering".
Putting aside the ethical aspect of that.
I wonder if it would work. |
Hmmm, you would need to introduce a reverse sheep dog type element, since you would need to keep everyone separate so they couldn’t cheat and huddle up like penguins.
That’s the only practical issue I can see. | | | |
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