| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. 09:59 - Apr 2 with 877 views | bluelagos |
An eminent virologist was on the BBC this morning taking apart the scientific argument for "green passports". The gist of his position was that they would give people a false sense of security and so lead to people being "off guard" and so the spread of the virus would increase in pubs etc.
He conceded that the arguments for passports were largely economic, namely that they would encourage otherwise reluctant people to go to hospitality venues, who might otherwise not.
Anyone reconsidering their position, given his clear position that their introduction would increase not decrease the rate of infections?
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| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 10:09 - Apr 2 with 831 views | Guthrum |
Comes down to a balance of whether you are prepared to take a possible (but very difficult to quantify at this stage) hit on public health over a fairly concrete economic/jobs benefit.
Unlike the "Eat Out To Help Out" scheme, the scenario going forward would see vaccinated - and therefore more protected - people being the ones encouraged to mingle. The chances of creating a spreader event are significantly lower (assuming the vaccines work).
That's not to say I'm wildly in favour of "Green Passports" as a concept. |  |
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| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 10:19 - Apr 2 with 800 views | bluelagos |
| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 10:09 - Apr 2 by Guthrum |
Comes down to a balance of whether you are prepared to take a possible (but very difficult to quantify at this stage) hit on public health over a fairly concrete economic/jobs benefit.
Unlike the "Eat Out To Help Out" scheme, the scenario going forward would see vaccinated - and therefore more protected - people being the ones encouraged to mingle. The chances of creating a spreader event are significantly lower (assuming the vaccines work).
That's not to say I'm wildly in favour of "Green Passports" as a concept. |
We need to open up in a safe manner. If the passports make opening up less safe, surely all those arguing for them on the grounds of public health should now be arguing against them on the grounds of public health?
New information sometimes leads to new thinking. Been like that all year tbf. People changing positions and actions based on better informed knowledge. | |
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| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 10:37 - Apr 2 with 750 views | Guthrum |
| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 10:19 - Apr 2 by bluelagos |
We need to open up in a safe manner. If the passports make opening up less safe, surely all those arguing for them on the grounds of public health should now be arguing against them on the grounds of public health?
New information sometimes leads to new thinking. Been like that all year tbf. People changing positions and actions based on better informed knowledge. |
But can you take one scientist's comments during a media interview as definitive proof that they will make it less safe? Hardly into the realms of peer-reviewed research and well-designed studies. At this stage, it's just his - albeit probably well informed - opinion.
Enough to raise doubts, but not yet to absolutely write the whole scheme off. | |
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| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 10:39 - Apr 2 with 740 views | bluelagos |
| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 10:37 - Apr 2 by Guthrum |
But can you take one scientist's comments during a media interview as definitive proof that they will make it less safe? Hardly into the realms of peer-reviewed research and well-designed studies. At this stage, it's just his - albeit probably well informed - opinion.
Enough to raise doubts, but not yet to absolutely write the whole scheme off. |
No argument from me there. His opinion could indeed be shown to be incorrect.
It is early days indeed. | |
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| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 10:47 - Apr 2 with 715 views | BlueBadger |
This has got a bit of a whiff of Great Barrington about it, to be honest. |  |
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| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 10:53 - Apr 2 with 697 views | Pinewoodblue |
Cruise companies are making it a requirement to have been vaccinated before you can go on a cruise. Read a long thread on a Facebook group page yesterday lots of people upset about losing their human rights to protect their own body.
This was a page related to a cruise from Miami in 12 months time. A cruise postponed from March 2020. Anyone’s guess what will happen between now and then. |  |
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| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 10:56 - Apr 2 with 679 views | Sarge |
I would happily take a vaccine passport over requirements for masks and distancing, because those things make even the simplest thing miserable and unappealing, but only once everybody has been offered one. Otherwise it will again be the young people having to sit and wait whilst the older people that they have sacrificed a year of their life for get their freedom back. |  | | |
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| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 10:58 - Apr 2 with 677 views | BlueBadger |
| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 10:53 - Apr 2 by Pinewoodblue |
Cruise companies are making it a requirement to have been vaccinated before you can go on a cruise. Read a long thread on a Facebook group page yesterday lots of people upset about losing their human rights to protect their own body.
This was a page related to a cruise from Miami in 12 months time. A cruise postponed from March 2020. Anyone’s guess what will happen between now and then. |
Personally, I wouldn't get on a cruise ship without a hazmat suit and a full autoclave set-up. They're basically massive metal boxes full of germs at the best of times never mid when there's a massively easily transmitted respiratory virus on the loose.
A respiratory virus that, lest we forget KILLS the primary demographic of cruise ships pretty efficiently. [Post edited 2 Apr 2021 11:00]
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| [Redacted] on 11:03 - Apr 2 with 649 views | victorywilhappen |
| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 10:56 - Apr 2 by Sarge |
I would happily take a vaccine passport over requirements for masks and distancing, because those things make even the simplest thing miserable and unappealing, but only once everybody has been offered one. Otherwise it will again be the young people having to sit and wait whilst the older people that they have sacrificed a year of their life for get their freedom back. |
[Redacted] |  | | |
| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 11:03 - Apr 2 with 645 views | Basuco |
But alcohol in general tends to lower the guard after a few drinks, I think the vaccine would have less effect on lowering the guard than the drink itself. I would still welcome a vaccine passport of some description as I feel some people will need to be "encouraged" to have the vaccine. The economy cannot afford another lock down and France and Germany are kindly showing us the effects of not getting vaccinated. I personally do not expect any compulsory vaccine passport to use hospitality or public transport, but can see some places bringing one in on a voluntary basis. I for one would choose to go somewhere I knew everyone else was vaccinated over somewhere that wasn't. As a transplant patient my daughter has been advised by her surgeons to avoid being close to anyone not vaccinated if at all possible, as a compromised immune system does not respond to the vaccine as well. Which means there could be a good market for the past shielding group and those who might be nervous about getting out and about again. |  | | |
| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 12:11 - Apr 2 with 580 views | factual_blue |
| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 10:58 - Apr 2 by BlueBadger |
Personally, I wouldn't get on a cruise ship without a hazmat suit and a full autoclave set-up. They're basically massive metal boxes full of germs at the best of times never mid when there's a massively easily transmitted respiratory virus on the loose.
A respiratory virus that, lest we forget KILLS the primary demographic of cruise ships pretty efficiently. [Post edited 2 Apr 2021 11:00]
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Plus, too many elderly Yanks go on cruises, and they'll be whinging on about how the election was stolen from trump, and/or how they're protected from the vaccine by the blood of Christ. |  |
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| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 12:33 - Apr 2 with 569 views | BlueBadger |
| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 12:11 - Apr 2 by factual_blue |
Plus, too many elderly Yanks go on cruises, and they'll be whinging on about how the election was stolen from trump, and/or how they're protected from the vaccine by the blood of Christ. |
It's a bit of a pitch-black ironic chuckle that people who don't believe in natural selection would also largely be the ones killed by it as well here. [Post edited 2 Apr 2021 12:33]
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| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 12:34 - Apr 2 with 563 views | factual_blue |
| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 12:33 - Apr 2 by BlueBadger |
It's a bit of a pitch-black ironic chuckle that people who don't believe in natural selection would also largely be the ones killed by it as well here. [Post edited 2 Apr 2021 12:33]
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Perhaps we could get Newcy to ram a few Yank-laden cruise liners whilst on his travels. | |
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| Vaccine passports for pubs etc. on 13:14 - Apr 2 with 529 views | Crawfordsboot |
I’m not sure that I would give any more weight to an opinion on the psychology behind group behaviour when it is given by a virologist rather than say a politician or a pop star. Surely we can take it as read that in a group of people, all of whom have been vaccinated or tested as clear of infection, the risk of cross infection will be lower than if the group includes unvaccinated or untested.
I take it that he wasn’t suggesting that transmission would be the same across both groups.
When we get back to normal, transmission of all sorts of things will revert to normal levels that generally are deemed as acceptable in society. At the moment the levels of transmission of CV are not acceptable thus unvaccinated and untested populations continue to face restrictions. |  | | |
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