| Corruption you say...... on 11:33 - Apr 12 with 1656 views | HARRY10 |
one case
which hardly equates to the hundreds of millions wasted during the pandemic, and the systemic attempts at corruption by Cameron and others
nor does it excuse them, or Johnsons connections to dodgy Russian 'donations; |  | |  |
| Corruption you say...... on 11:55 - Apr 12 with 1630 views | Coastalblue |
| Corruption you say...... on 11:33 - Apr 12 by HARRY10 |
one case
which hardly equates to the hundreds of millions wasted during the pandemic, and the systemic attempts at corruption by Cameron and others
nor does it excuse them, or Johnsons connections to dodgy Russian 'donations; |
I can't believe there aren't more, just happens to be one that's literally outside my window, in fact I could list several more from this Borough.
You're right, it excuses nothing but pretending one side is terrible and the other is squeaky clean gives you zero credibility, and if you truly believe it then you're gullible.
They are politicians, it's what politicians from all sides of the house do these days, it doesn't even seem to bother people that much any more, it's just taken as a given.
The whole thing needs a reset and the main two parties are a big part of that being required. |  |
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| Of course all this "troughing".... on 12:11 - Apr 12 with 1613 views | Bloots |
| Corruption you say...... on 11:55 - Apr 12 by Coastalblue |
I can't believe there aren't more, just happens to be one that's literally outside my window, in fact I could list several more from this Borough.
You're right, it excuses nothing but pretending one side is terrible and the other is squeaky clean gives you zero credibility, and if you truly believe it then you're gullible.
They are politicians, it's what politicians from all sides of the house do these days, it doesn't even seem to bother people that much any more, it's just taken as a given.
The whole thing needs a reset and the main two parties are a big part of that being required. |
....on a national level is only really feasible if you are in power.
Opposition parties have to make do with local level corruption.
Labour have wasted so much time arguing amongst themselves over the last 10 years that they haven't had the opportunity to really line their pockets.
If they ever manage to get their act together they'll undoubtedly be exposed as just as corrupt as the current crop of thieves. |  |
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| Corruption you say...... on 13:12 - Apr 12 with 1574 views | HARRY10 |
| Corruption you say...... on 11:55 - Apr 12 by Coastalblue |
I can't believe there aren't more, just happens to be one that's literally outside my window, in fact I could list several more from this Borough.
You're right, it excuses nothing but pretending one side is terrible and the other is squeaky clean gives you zero credibility, and if you truly believe it then you're gullible.
They are politicians, it's what politicians from all sides of the house do these days, it doesn't even seem to bother people that much any more, it's just taken as a given.
The whole thing needs a reset and the main two parties are a big part of that being required. |
"and the other is squeaky clean"
those are your words not mine
and no, they are not at all at it....even the Tories, so stop trying to deflect from blatant corruption, just because your nose is bright blue
.... or brown, given the above absurd guff | | | |
| Corruption you say...... on 13:26 - Apr 12 with 1566 views | Coastalblue |
| Corruption you say...... on 13:12 - Apr 12 by HARRY10 |
"and the other is squeaky clean"
those are your words not mine
and no, they are not at all at it....even the Tories, so stop trying to deflect from blatant corruption, just because your nose is bright blue
.... or brown, given the above absurd guff |
WTF?
I remember now why I stopped bothering with you before.
I think you're actually some sort of weird comedy creation, oh well, can't reason with the tribal or the brainwashed, actually I think perhaps you are the Tory, you're doing a very good job of making Labour voters look stupid. | |
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| Corruption you say...... on 14:01 - Apr 12 with 1538 views | HARRY10 |
| Corruption you say...... on 13:26 - Apr 12 by Coastalblue |
WTF?
I remember now why I stopped bothering with you before.
I think you're actually some sort of weird comedy creation, oh well, can't reason with the tribal or the brainwashed, actually I think perhaps you are the Tory, you're doing a very good job of making Labour voters look stupid. |
I am not a Labour voter, nor ever have been
I merely put up a post highlighting the high level if corruption among current Tory MPs and one former POM.
This seems to have upset you, and that upset has continued it would appear
Meanwhile
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56720141 | | | |
| Corruption you say...... on 14:08 - Apr 12 with 1530 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corruption you say...... on 11:55 - Apr 12 by Coastalblue |
I can't believe there aren't more, just happens to be one that's literally outside my window, in fact I could list several more from this Borough.
You're right, it excuses nothing but pretending one side is terrible and the other is squeaky clean gives you zero credibility, and if you truly believe it then you're gullible.
They are politicians, it's what politicians from all sides of the house do these days, it doesn't even seem to bother people that much any more, it's just taken as a given.
The whole thing needs a reset and the main two parties are a big part of that being required. |
Indeed. Similar, in fact to the political media world it has so much in common with and who scratches its back in return for content.
There are a few exceptions here and there (and mostly outside the main corporate outlets) but it’s essentially a business of circulation numbers, clicks and advertising revenue. It’s an open secret that they’re not there to speak truth to power or provide an objective balanced forum for discussing the major issues affecting society.
They’re there to make money and follow a few pet subjects on the side. Just like most Tory and Labour politicians. And we apparently don’t care enough to hold either our politicians or the media to a higher standard in the public interest. |  |
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| Tory snouts in the trough on 14:41 - Apr 12 with 1490 views | eireblue |
Tax payer money paid to some people is either capped and/or means tested.
Hmmmmm....seems like there could be a reasonable and well known approach to such a problem |  | | |
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| Tory snouts in the trough on 14:46 - Apr 12 with 1481 views | Darth_Koont |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 14:41 - Apr 12 by eireblue |
Tax payer money paid to some people is either capped and/or means tested.
Hmmmmm....seems like there could be a reasonable and well known approach to such a problem |
Alternatively, just scrap this support. Clearly we’re encouraging dependency. | |
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| Tory snouts in the trough on 14:56 - Apr 12 with 1467 views | brazil1982 |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 11:24 - Apr 12 by HARRY10 |
There is a vast difference between greed and fraud. Between earning what you can and blatant corruption.
It is the high level of fraud and corruption the OP was addressing |
As much as you disapprove of the rent practices and amounts, I can't see where the corruption or fraud is.
"There is no suggestion any of the MPs have broken any rules. Because non-London MPs have to work from two locations — London and their constituency — they can claim rental costs for one of those homes on expenses." - from the article.
Do you feel it distasteful that some MPs own and rent out properties but claim for their own rental allowance in London? -that's what the article infers. Maybe they should purchase office real estate instead. | | | |
| Corruption you say...... on 15:01 - Apr 12 with 1464 views | HotShotHamish |
| Corruption you say...... on 13:12 - Apr 12 by HARRY10 |
"and the other is squeaky clean"
those are your words not mine
and no, they are not at all at it....even the Tories, so stop trying to deflect from blatant corruption, just because your nose is bright blue
.... or brown, given the above absurd guff |
It's not corrupt though is it? Even the Guardian report (if you bothered to read past the headline) states that there is no suggestion any of the MP's broke the rules.
You've seen a sensational headline and attempted to make it more sensational without actually understanding that there is no rule breaking going on.
Hardly corruption is it? | | | |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 15:06 - Apr 12 with 1450 views | eireblue |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 14:56 - Apr 12 by brazil1982 |
As much as you disapprove of the rent practices and amounts, I can't see where the corruption or fraud is.
"There is no suggestion any of the MPs have broken any rules. Because non-London MPs have to work from two locations — London and their constituency — they can claim rental costs for one of those homes on expenses." - from the article.
Do you feel it distasteful that some MPs own and rent out properties but claim for their own rental allowance in London? -that's what the article infers. Maybe they should purchase office real estate instead. |
Yes, it is distasteful.
Especially during a time when people are talking a lot about “service”.
As an ex-civil servant, e.g. an employee of the state, the expenses I had, and the money spent was always thought of as tax payer money, and it should be limited.
When the state hands out money to certain people, it limits that spending.
I don’t see why as a tax payer I should subsidise someone with an income or wealth that would allow them to easily rent property, in order to serve the public.
Part of being an MP is not to have a career path that is typical of other industries, it is a position in which you serve the public.
Of course, there should be sufficient support, so that any wages/expenses are sufficient to do the job, so that everyone could afford to be an MP.
Someone posted about an MP that has received millions in subsidies from Tax payers as part of the land owned and passed down through his family. Why should wealthy people that can afford to have a flat in London, that is sufficient to do their job, be subsidised by tax payers?
I think it is a valid question. | | | |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 15:17 - Apr 12 with 1434 views | brazil1982 |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 15:06 - Apr 12 by eireblue |
Yes, it is distasteful.
Especially during a time when people are talking a lot about “service”.
As an ex-civil servant, e.g. an employee of the state, the expenses I had, and the money spent was always thought of as tax payer money, and it should be limited.
When the state hands out money to certain people, it limits that spending.
I don’t see why as a tax payer I should subsidise someone with an income or wealth that would allow them to easily rent property, in order to serve the public.
Part of being an MP is not to have a career path that is typical of other industries, it is a position in which you serve the public.
Of course, there should be sufficient support, so that any wages/expenses are sufficient to do the job, so that everyone could afford to be an MP.
Someone posted about an MP that has received millions in subsidies from Tax payers as part of the land owned and passed down through his family. Why should wealthy people that can afford to have a flat in London, that is sufficient to do their job, be subsidised by tax payers?
I think it is a valid question. |
So a means-test on all MPs? Could work. What would you propose the limit be?
My Partner earns a very good wage - often she stays over in London and will bill this back to the client [in the overall consultant fee] who on occasions may be a public sector organisation. Why should they pay? She earns enough to book a hotel several times a month..... | | | |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 15:21 - Apr 12 with 1430 views | itfcjoe |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 14:56 - Apr 12 by brazil1982 |
As much as you disapprove of the rent practices and amounts, I can't see where the corruption or fraud is.
"There is no suggestion any of the MPs have broken any rules. Because non-London MPs have to work from two locations — London and their constituency — they can claim rental costs for one of those homes on expenses." - from the article.
Do you feel it distasteful that some MPs own and rent out properties but claim for their own rental allowance in London? -that's what the article infers. Maybe they should purchase office real estate instead. |
I personally feel it is distateful, this is what was the issue with the expenses scandal when it was found out how much they were doing within the rules in the most part.
Flipping properties to refurb them at taxpayer expense as primary properties etc.
At the moment the taxpayer is paying MPs big rents on their second homes, whilst they have other rentals in the city they could be using but that doesn't squeeze enough out of the taxpayer for them.
It goes back to them not spending money as if it was their own [Post edited 12 Apr 2021 15:24]
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| Corruption you say...... on 15:24 - Apr 12 with 1429 views | HARRY10 |
| Corruption you say...... on 15:01 - Apr 12 by HotShotHamish |
It's not corrupt though is it? Even the Guardian report (if you bothered to read past the headline) states that there is no suggestion any of the MP's broke the rules.
You've seen a sensational headline and attempted to make it more sensational without actually understanding that there is no rule breaking going on.
Hardly corruption is it? |
If you had bothered to read the thread you would have seen that my comments (corruption/fraud) related to Robert Jenrick MP and David Cameron.
Whereas the OP was pointing out the hypocrisy of MPs who have voted to cut housing costs for those in low income yet milk the system themselves for all it is worth.
But if it is corruption and maybe fraud then look no further
https://www.cityam.com/government-wasted-150m-on-unusable-face-masks-bought-from | | | |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 15:24 - Apr 12 with 1427 views | eireblue |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 15:17 - Apr 12 by brazil1982 |
So a means-test on all MPs? Could work. What would you propose the limit be?
My Partner earns a very good wage - often she stays over in London and will bill this back to the client [in the overall consultant fee] who on occasions may be a public sector organisation. Why should they pay? She earns enough to book a hotel several times a month..... |
Yep a means test is what I suggested earlier, definitely worth exploring. I don’t think you need to have exact number in mind to decide if the principle is sound.
Sometimes the contracts I see that involve personal include expenses sometimes they don’t, the ones that do sometimes have limits.
Some of the companies I have worked for have reduced rates for public sector. | | | |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 16:02 - Apr 12 with 1412 views | HARRY10 |
I give you -
"The Tory MP claiming the highest rent expenses is Helen Whately, minister for social care. Despite earning £113,612 as an MP and minister, she claimed £3,250 in housing rent from the taxpayer each month between April and November 2020 — £26,000 in total during those eight months."
Her constituency is less than 50 mile from HoP and around an hour or so by train, The station is Victoria which is probably closest to the HoP.
Why does she need to rent a flat when the HoP are shut for nearly 2 months in the summer? When she can easily get home at the w'e and even at nights ?
What would be the thought if someone claimed they needed to claim £3,250 in housing rent p/m because Colchester was too far to commute to the City every weekend, never mind nights
Her rental costs should be for one person - so why not a hotel ? | | | |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 16:52 - Apr 12 with 1385 views | BlueBadger |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 09:51 - Apr 12 by Coastalblue |
MP's innit, anybody really surprised by any of this any more? My MP is currently awaiting trial for £63K of housing fraud allegations which will happen once the courts get back to some sort of normality.
Do I think there will be any sort of justice served? Do I hell. |
Ah, the duty 'but Labour' person speaks. |  |
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| Tory snouts in the trough on 17:05 - Apr 12 with 1376 views | brazil1982 |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 15:21 - Apr 12 by itfcjoe |
I personally feel it is distateful, this is what was the issue with the expenses scandal when it was found out how much they were doing within the rules in the most part.
Flipping properties to refurb them at taxpayer expense as primary properties etc.
At the moment the taxpayer is paying MPs big rents on their second homes, whilst they have other rentals in the city they could be using but that doesn't squeeze enough out of the taxpayer for them.
It goes back to them not spending money as if it was their own [Post edited 12 Apr 2021 15:24]
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If they own rental properties in London then of course these should be used as their "London" home as an MP. | | | |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 17:12 - Apr 12 with 1363 views | HARRY10 |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 15:17 - Apr 12 by brazil1982 |
So a means-test on all MPs? Could work. What would you propose the limit be?
My Partner earns a very good wage - often she stays over in London and will bill this back to the client [in the overall consultant fee] who on occasions may be a public sector organisation. Why should they pay? She earns enough to book a hotel several times a month..... |
because what she earns reflects the work she does for them
clearly they feel the fee charged is worth it
as they are willing to pay extra when she asks, it suggests that she is under pricing herself at all other times | | | |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 17:19 - Apr 12 with 1360 views | brazil1982 |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 16:02 - Apr 12 by HARRY10 |
I give you -
"The Tory MP claiming the highest rent expenses is Helen Whately, minister for social care. Despite earning £113,612 as an MP and minister, she claimed £3,250 in housing rent from the taxpayer each month between April and November 2020 — £26,000 in total during those eight months."
Her constituency is less than 50 mile from HoP and around an hour or so by train, The station is Victoria which is probably closest to the HoP.
Why does she need to rent a flat when the HoP are shut for nearly 2 months in the summer? When she can easily get home at the w'e and even at nights ?
What would be the thought if someone claimed they needed to claim £3,250 in housing rent p/m because Colchester was too far to commute to the City every weekend, never mind nights
Her rental costs should be for one person - so why not a hotel ? |
I agree it's rather odd this is allowed so close to London, rather than you say, a hotel on occasions. Perhaps being a Minister means a lot of late night and weekend working - I don't know. I don't know the cost of a hotel room that would also offer adequate work space. £200 / night? - still an expense.
The article though is sneering to her earnings - it's £82k after tax. I don't think she should have to meet the cost of London expenses for the role, but agree £3250 and living within 50 miles is questionable. | | | |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 19:56 - Apr 12 with 1322 views | WD19 |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 17:05 - Apr 12 by brazil1982 |
If they own rental properties in London then of course these should be used as their "London" home as an MP. |
So you are advocating MPs purchasing buy-to-lets in Burnley instead!? |  | | |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 20:16 - Apr 12 with 1296 views | HARRY10 |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 19:56 - Apr 12 by WD19 |
So you are advocating MPs purchasing buy-to-lets in Burnley instead!? |
I expect that makes sense.........................somewhere  | | | |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 22:12 - Apr 12 with 1273 views | eireblue |
| Tory snouts in the trough on 19:56 - Apr 12 by WD19 |
So you are advocating MPs purchasing buy-to-lets in Burnley instead!? |
Move Parliament to Burnley, 25 days holiday for MPs.
Hands up, who still wants to serve as an MP? | | | |
| Corruption you say...... on 08:14 - Apr 13 with 1226 views | Churchman |
| Corruption you say...... on 11:55 - Apr 12 by Coastalblue |
I can't believe there aren't more, just happens to be one that's literally outside my window, in fact I could list several more from this Borough.
You're right, it excuses nothing but pretending one side is terrible and the other is squeaky clean gives you zero credibility, and if you truly believe it then you're gullible.
They are politicians, it's what politicians from all sides of the house do these days, it doesn't even seem to bother people that much any more, it's just taken as a given.
The whole thing needs a reset and the main two parties are a big part of that being required. |
As far as I’m concerned they’re all the flippin same. From oily Cameron using whatever he can to fill his boots to slippery Blair sliding around the world earning millions after what he did.
I love the idea that massaging your expenses as an MP is fine because people have always done it. If caught, just apologise. People in most areas of work get fired for that. MP pay rises: perfectly fine where everybody else in the public sector gets zippo. Flog a public service off like they did the utilities in the 80s and hey presto, a few years later ex-MPs wind up on the Board.
BT owned land on the old Martlesham airfield: planning permission for development refused time after time. Cameron and the gang invited to lunch by BT and would you believe it, planning permission for 4000 new houses granted soon after.
I’m picking on the Tories a bit here, but the other mob are no better. Cash for questions, cash for honours, a certain Scottish First Minister allegedly claiming £116k expenses for 6 visits to London 13 years ago. A quick visit to Wikipedia and the list is nauseating. It seems hardly any better to me than pre 1832 Reform Bill Rotten Borough age. Political reform is desperately needed |  | | |
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