| "It turned out she was the patron saint of lost causes" on 11:25 - Apr 13 with 541 views | Ryorry |
Harsh & not really fair imho - nothing wrong in standing up for what you believe in.
Despite the passage "The wonder of it is is that none of it was her fault. Williams was just the wrong politician for her times, much as she was a product of them and an eloquent advocate of the conventional wisdom of the day.
She worked hard, and seemingly never turned down an invitation to write or speak up for what she believed from a very young age .."
the article then continues with yet another "but ..."
And completely ignores her extremely positive influence in drawing women into public life who wouldn't otherwise have engaged if not for her.
Shocking that her death wasn't even mentioned on the ITV 10pm news headlines last night btw. [Post edited 13 Apr 2021 11:27]
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| "It turned out she was the patron saint of lost causes" on 11:57 - Apr 13 with 497 views | Darth_Koont |
A bit too harsh but the underlying flawed record seems about right. And some good lessons to take today.
What too many UK social democrats/LibDems/Third Wayers seem to misunderstand (still) is that social democracy isn’t to be found in the centre – and even less so when that leaks over into neoliberalism, imperialism and the centre-right as it did with Blair.
Society has evolved over the last 2-300 years by moving left. To keep moving forward you need to keep pushing for equality rather than sliding back to liberty and a more right-wing take. But it seemed that many believed that the essential balance was established. But finding that balance between equality and liberty, society and capital, is an ongoing fight.
In the 80s it probably felt to someone like Williams that the post-War era had made sufficient strides that equality was firmly on the agenda. But moving to the center and taking their eye off the underlying fight as she and many that followed have done has meant that the inequalities and gaps in UK society have increased over the years. While also marginalising the centre as a force as picking no side but arguably leaning more right than left doesn’t help anyone and doesn’t provide any opposition.
If the centre could lean more left and realise that their natural allies are there rather the right (more Healey than Williams in other words) then there’s the opportunity to get the UK back on track. And centrism (whatever that means) with it. |  |
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| "It turned out she was the patron saint of lost causes" on 13:01 - Apr 13 with 460 views | Darth_Koont |
| "It turned out she was the patron saint of lost causes" on 11:57 - Apr 13 by Darth_Koont |
A bit too harsh but the underlying flawed record seems about right. And some good lessons to take today.
What too many UK social democrats/LibDems/Third Wayers seem to misunderstand (still) is that social democracy isn’t to be found in the centre – and even less so when that leaks over into neoliberalism, imperialism and the centre-right as it did with Blair.
Society has evolved over the last 2-300 years by moving left. To keep moving forward you need to keep pushing for equality rather than sliding back to liberty and a more right-wing take. But it seemed that many believed that the essential balance was established. But finding that balance between equality and liberty, society and capital, is an ongoing fight.
In the 80s it probably felt to someone like Williams that the post-War era had made sufficient strides that equality was firmly on the agenda. But moving to the center and taking their eye off the underlying fight as she and many that followed have done has meant that the inequalities and gaps in UK society have increased over the years. While also marginalising the centre as a force as picking no side but arguably leaning more right than left doesn’t help anyone and doesn’t provide any opposition.
If the centre could lean more left and realise that their natural allies are there rather the right (more Healey than Williams in other words) then there’s the opportunity to get the UK back on track. And centrism (whatever that means) with it. |
Cheers, lowers. You’re always there to make my point for me.
With centrists like you who needs the right wing, eh? | |
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| "It turned out she was the patron saint of lost causes" on 14:19 - Apr 13 with 416 views | bluelagos |
| "It turned out she was the patron saint of lost causes" on 11:25 - Apr 13 by Ryorry |
Harsh & not really fair imho - nothing wrong in standing up for what you believe in.
Despite the passage "The wonder of it is is that none of it was her fault. Williams was just the wrong politician for her times, much as she was a product of them and an eloquent advocate of the conventional wisdom of the day.
She worked hard, and seemingly never turned down an invitation to write or speak up for what she believed from a very young age .."
the article then continues with yet another "but ..."
And completely ignores her extremely positive influence in drawing women into public life who wouldn't otherwise have engaged if not for her.
Shocking that her death wasn't even mentioned on the ITV 10pm news headlines last night btw. [Post edited 13 Apr 2021 11:27]
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Given her central role in bringing us comprehensives (a bit positive for me) and in introducing the SDP (Different schools of thought) which changed politics, is very surprising the lack of coverage and recognition of her influence on the UK.
+1 too for her as a role model / trail blazer for women in politics. |  |
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| "It turned out she was the patron saint of lost causes" on 14:21 - Apr 13 with 405 views | bluelagos |
| "It turned out she was the patron saint of lost causes" on 11:57 - Apr 13 by Darth_Koont |
A bit too harsh but the underlying flawed record seems about right. And some good lessons to take today.
What too many UK social democrats/LibDems/Third Wayers seem to misunderstand (still) is that social democracy isn’t to be found in the centre – and even less so when that leaks over into neoliberalism, imperialism and the centre-right as it did with Blair.
Society has evolved over the last 2-300 years by moving left. To keep moving forward you need to keep pushing for equality rather than sliding back to liberty and a more right-wing take. But it seemed that many believed that the essential balance was established. But finding that balance between equality and liberty, society and capital, is an ongoing fight.
In the 80s it probably felt to someone like Williams that the post-War era had made sufficient strides that equality was firmly on the agenda. But moving to the center and taking their eye off the underlying fight as she and many that followed have done has meant that the inequalities and gaps in UK society have increased over the years. While also marginalising the centre as a force as picking no side but arguably leaning more right than left doesn’t help anyone and doesn’t provide any opposition.
If the centre could lean more left and realise that their natural allies are there rather the right (more Healey than Williams in other words) then there’s the opportunity to get the UK back on track. And centrism (whatever that means) with it. |
"To keep moving forward you need to keep pushing for equality rather than sliding back to liberty and a more right-wing take"
You seem to position liberties / freedoms as a right wing take Darth. Plenty of left wing libs around too :-)
Why can't we have a govt pushing for both freedoms and equality? | |
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| "It turned out she was the patron saint of lost causes" on 15:01 - Apr 13 with 389 views | Ryorry |
| "It turned out she was the patron saint of lost causes" on 14:19 - Apr 13 by bluelagos |
Given her central role in bringing us comprehensives (a bit positive for me) and in introducing the SDP (Different schools of thought) which changed politics, is very surprising the lack of coverage and recognition of her influence on the UK.
+1 too for her as a role model / trail blazer for women in politics. |
Thanks. As is sometimes the way, sadly, people (inc me) get to learn a great deal more about people after, or even because of their deaths.
This is a lovely thread for the many tributes by people who met & were very impressed by her, including one from Ian Kennon -
"Many years ago a friend told me when Shirley was Education Minister she would often come into his Stevenage school staff room to get opinions on a new initiative being considered." and Stephen Pestell -
"A student at Hull Uni in early 70s I with others formed a breakaway Independent Labour Party. On a weekend visit to Hull we asked her to come and meet with our group. She turned up on a grim Saturday morning to meet just 5 of us. She was engaging, interested and inspiring. RIP"
as well as a Guardian article which I haven't got time to read fully atm, but will do later & might be interesting to compare with the Indie one -
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/apr/12/shirley-williams-appreciation-p
A "national treasure" indeed!
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| "It turned out she was the patron saint of lost causes" on 16:38 - Apr 13 with 355 views | Darth_Koont |
| "It turned out she was the patron saint of lost causes" on 14:21 - Apr 13 by bluelagos |
"To keep moving forward you need to keep pushing for equality rather than sliding back to liberty and a more right-wing take"
You seem to position liberties / freedoms as a right wing take Darth. Plenty of left wing libs around too :-)
Why can't we have a govt pushing for both freedoms and equality? |
Oh we should absolutely. But you have to believe that equality is as important as liberty - and that’s a left-wing take not a right-wing one. | |
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| "It turned out she was the patron saint of lost causes" on 17:15 - Apr 13 with 326 views | Leaky |
| "It turned out she was the patron saint of lost causes" on 11:57 - Apr 13 by Darth_Koont |
A bit too harsh but the underlying flawed record seems about right. And some good lessons to take today.
What too many UK social democrats/LibDems/Third Wayers seem to misunderstand (still) is that social democracy isn’t to be found in the centre – and even less so when that leaks over into neoliberalism, imperialism and the centre-right as it did with Blair.
Society has evolved over the last 2-300 years by moving left. To keep moving forward you need to keep pushing for equality rather than sliding back to liberty and a more right-wing take. But it seemed that many believed that the essential balance was established. But finding that balance between equality and liberty, society and capital, is an ongoing fight.
In the 80s it probably felt to someone like Williams that the post-War era had made sufficient strides that equality was firmly on the agenda. But moving to the center and taking their eye off the underlying fight as she and many that followed have done has meant that the inequalities and gaps in UK society have increased over the years. While also marginalising the centre as a force as picking no side but arguably leaning more right than left doesn’t help anyone and doesn’t provide any opposition.
If the centre could lean more left and realise that their natural allies are there rather the right (more Healey than Williams in other words) then there’s the opportunity to get the UK back on track. And centrism (whatever that means) with it. |
The Lesson Accordingto St. Darth c |  | | |
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