| Go on Kier! 12:40 - Apr 16 with 7746 views | monytowbray |
Can we start calling him unelectable yet?! |  |
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| Go on Kier! on 13:19 - Apr 16 with 861 views | Herbivore |
| Go on Kier! on 12:46 - Apr 16 by monytowbray |
Delusional. Find me these Corbynistas who have gone Tory.
Also, why is it suddenly shameful to not rally behind a leader the membership surge doesn’t care for? Was fine for 4 years for Labour’s right to do it despite being the democratic internal second fiddle. Even when getting on board would have got us a very different present day reality in 2017. [Post edited 16 Apr 2021 12:49]
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It wasn't fine for the Labour right to do it. It's not fine you and the other Corbynites doing it now. You're all Tory enablers and you can all feck off. |  |
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| Go on Kier! on 13:20 - Apr 16 with 859 views | Mullet |
| Go on Kier! on 13:16 - Apr 16 by Darth_Koont |
Nah. Not having that at all.
You own this. Because it’s exactly this type of irrational fear and unevidenced blame of the left that’s pushed Labour right and driven the country into Johnson’s arms. |
Of course you’re not, because it shines a light on how bad Corbyn and his followers have been for everyone.
All this talk of own your sh1t with no sense of irony, is the exact problem. You keep pointing at the polls then ignoring the ones which evidence JC was even worse. This is why you’re all sat around in your own righteous fantasy lands whilst the rest of us are feeling the effects of these Tory bastards you helped strengthen so much. |  |
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| Go on Kier! on 13:25 - Apr 16 with 852 views | StokieBlue |
The trouble there is that the Tweet totally ignores context.
I'm not at all surprised that a poll taken towards the end of a successful vaccination campaign at a time when the pubs have just opened and people are able to get on with more normal things shows the government well ahead.
The real problem here is that many might see him as unelectable and we know from the last two elections than a candidate who is much further to the left of the party is also unelectable so it doesn't leave Labour anywhere to go. Unless the party starts getting along with itself the Tories are going to romp home again come next election.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Go on Kier! on 13:26 - Apr 16 with 842 views | Darth_Koont |
| Go on Kier! on 13:20 - Apr 16 by Mullet |
Of course you’re not, because it shines a light on how bad Corbyn and his followers have been for everyone.
All this talk of own your sh1t with no sense of irony, is the exact problem. You keep pointing at the polls then ignoring the ones which evidence JC was even worse. This is why you’re all sat around in your own righteous fantasy lands whilst the rest of us are feeling the effects of these Tory bastards you helped strengthen so much. |
Utter baseless chuff.
This is part of an overall trend where Labour has been losing support since the high point of 1997. 2017 and Corbyn bucked it and that’s when the heat was really turned up.
I thought a lot better of you than to be trotting out such superficial nonsense. |  |
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| Go on Kier! on 13:31 - Apr 16 with 828 views | monytowbray |
| Go on Kier! on 13:12 - Apr 16 by Mullet |
What are you talking about? I’m talking about the cult members attacks on Starmer aiding the Tories. It’s an elementary distinction you’ve purposefully ignored or are so embedded in what I’m talking about you have no perspective.
The fact you demonise this Labour right over these Tory bastards is exactly the problem. |
"The fact you demonise this Labour right over these Tory bastards is exactly the problem."
Oh so NOW it's a problem?! Mate.
You keep living in this made up narrative that Starmer's failure is all down to Corbyn based on zero evidence. I'll live in the reality you need to accept that perhaps the centralist vision of a neoliberal capitalist-lite leader with some green washed policies will win the hearts of the nation.
PS. The same leader won't be enough to save the planet either. We tick along on the fence at our own demise. | |
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| Go on Kier! on 13:32 - Apr 16 with 831 views | monytowbray |
| Go on Kier! on 13:15 - Apr 16 by Mullet |
And far too much of that was their own doing unfortunately. |
Keep pretending 2017 never happened and you didn't sabotage the best chance of a Labour win since Blair... | |
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| Go on Kier! on 13:34 - Apr 16 with 812 views | monytowbray |
| Go on Kier! on 13:19 - Apr 16 by Herbivore |
It wasn't fine for the Labour right to do it. It's not fine you and the other Corbynites doing it now. You're all Tory enablers and you can all feck off. |
There's no point getting the Tories out if there is no direction or vision beyond just getting them out for the sake of it and f'all changing.
That's why Labour had a membership surge in the first place.
It's not a hard thing to embrace. [Post edited 16 Apr 2021 13:34]
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| Go on Kier! on 13:37 - Apr 16 with 807 views | monytowbray |
| Go on Kier! on 13:25 - Apr 16 by StokieBlue |
The trouble there is that the Tweet totally ignores context.
I'm not at all surprised that a poll taken towards the end of a successful vaccination campaign at a time when the pubs have just opened and people are able to get on with more normal things shows the government well ahead.
The real problem here is that many might see him as unelectable and we know from the last two elections than a candidate who is much further to the left of the party is also unelectable so it doesn't leave Labour anywhere to go. Unless the party starts getting along with itself the Tories are going to romp home again come next election.
SB |
Agree with all of that, but I'm not going to buy Mullet's made up nonsense based on zero evidence.
I've barely said a word about Kier TBH, he's about as exciting and interesting as bread to me, in fact I've largely avoided public criticism for the sake of not sabotaging a potential to get the Tories out.
But these polls are not just due to vaccinations, he barely made a dent throughout 2020. | |
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| Go on Kier! on 13:54 - Apr 16 with 790 views | BlueBadger |
| Go on Kier! on 12:46 - Apr 16 by monytowbray |
Delusional. Find me these Corbynistas who have gone Tory.
Also, why is it suddenly shameful to not rally behind a leader the membership surge doesn’t care for? Was fine for 4 years for Labour’s right to do it despite being the democratic internal second fiddle. Even when getting on board would have got us a very different present day reality in 2017. [Post edited 16 Apr 2021 12:49]
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You've got a fook of a sight more of a chance of seeing at least some of what you want implemented happening by getting behind a 'moderate' than you will by getting behind an incompetent racist supply teacher who's more interested in culture wars than policy who stood no chance of seeing off the incompetent racist panel show host who's more interested in culture wars than actual policy. [Post edited 16 Apr 2021 14:10]
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| Go on Kier! on 13:55 - Apr 16 with 783 views | BlueBadger |
Now he's nearly as unpopular as the Dear Leader will you start supporting him? [Post edited 16 Apr 2021 13:56]
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| Go on Kier! on 13:58 - Apr 16 with 769 views | longtimefan |
Is he the leader of the opposition’s brother?  |  | | |
| Go on Kier! on 14:02 - Apr 16 with 756 views | monytowbray |
| Go on Kier! on 13:54 - Apr 16 by BlueBadger |
You've got a fook of a sight more of a chance of seeing at least some of what you want implemented happening by getting behind a 'moderate' than you will by getting behind an incompetent racist supply teacher who's more interested in culture wars than policy who stood no chance of seeing off the incompetent racist panel show host who's more interested in culture wars than actual policy. [Post edited 16 Apr 2021 14:10]
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Yes, let's all rally behind the moderate Labour leader who's best idea to win over the hearts and minds of Britain is "shag more flags". Seems that did wonders in the polls. | |
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| Go on Kier! on 14:03 - Apr 16 with 752 views | Herbivore |
| Go on Kier! on 13:34 - Apr 16 by monytowbray |
There's no point getting the Tories out if there is no direction or vision beyond just getting them out for the sake of it and f'all changing.
That's why Labour had a membership surge in the first place.
It's not a hard thing to embrace. [Post edited 16 Apr 2021 13:34]
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There's no point getting the Tories out? Careful, mate, your privilege is showing.
Labour may have had a membership surge under Corbyn but they also lost two elections, one of them by an absolute landslide, and they lost the red wall. This is rather like harping back to the 'improved performances' under Lambert in Spring 2019. | |
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| Go on Kier! on 14:05 - Apr 16 with 739 views | J2BLUE |
| Go on Kier! on 13:14 - Apr 16 by J2BLUE |
I get that. I just don't see the logic in the left battling for the party.
Leave, let Labour drift to the right and take votes off the Tories while the left swoop to power with radical new ideas? |
No? |  |
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| Go on Kier! on 14:12 - Apr 16 with 719 views | BlueBadger |
| Go on Kier! on 14:02 - Apr 16 by monytowbray |
Yes, let's all rally behind the moderate Labour leader who's best idea to win over the hearts and minds of Britain is "shag more flags". Seems that did wonders in the polls. |
Mate, you're doing the political equivalent of pining for Paul Lambert in the early days of Paul Cook's reign.
You're the 'general posts' Garv. [Post edited 16 Apr 2021 14:16]
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| Go on Kier! on 14:14 - Apr 16 with 704 views | Darth_Koont |
| Go on Kier! on 13:54 - Apr 16 by BlueBadger |
You've got a fook of a sight more of a chance of seeing at least some of what you want implemented happening by getting behind a 'moderate' than you will by getting behind an incompetent racist supply teacher who's more interested in culture wars than policy who stood no chance of seeing off the incompetent racist panel show host who's more interested in culture wars than actual policy. [Post edited 16 Apr 2021 14:10]
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Again, just noisy baseless nonsense.
You spent 5 years denying policy talk in favour of the superficial attacks and the one-liners. Stop re-imagining this stuff. | |
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| Go on Kier! on 14:17 - Apr 16 with 696 views | monytowbray |
| Go on Kier! on 14:03 - Apr 16 by Herbivore |
There's no point getting the Tories out? Careful, mate, your privilege is showing.
Labour may have had a membership surge under Corbyn but they also lost two elections, one of them by an absolute landslide, and they lost the red wall. This is rather like harping back to the 'improved performances' under Lambert in Spring 2019. |
Ah, the good old "delete half the post and change the context" tactic.
I expect better than disingenuous from you.
I'd compare 2017 more to Mick's 2015 if you want ITFC comparisons. The Labour Right is ME.
I should add, whatteraboutery and made up nonsense about Corbyn don't change the fact that Labour sabotagers clearly failed to read the room with their choice of leader. [Post edited 16 Apr 2021 14:19]
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| Go on Kier! on 14:22 - Apr 16 with 677 views | monytowbray |
| Go on Kier! on 14:12 - Apr 16 by BlueBadger |
Mate, you're doing the political equivalent of pining for Paul Lambert in the early days of Paul Cook's reign.
You're the 'general posts' Garv. [Post edited 16 Apr 2021 14:16]
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He's had a year as leader, a government my 16 year old daughter could raise more issues publicly with and he's polling like Lambert's results. That's the only comparison I can see involving PRP. | |
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| Go on Kier! on 14:32 - Apr 16 with 649 views | BlueBadger |
| Go on Kier! on 14:03 - Apr 16 by Herbivore |
There's no point getting the Tories out? Careful, mate, your privilege is showing.
Labour may have had a membership surge under Corbyn but they also lost two elections, one of them by an absolute landslide, and they lost the red wall. This is rather like harping back to the 'improved performances' under Lambert in Spring 2019. |
If we'd had a competent Labour leader in charge we'd probably now still be in the EU and, worst case scenario, we'd have had a coalition government and at least a chance at a half-decent response to a global pandemic. | |
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| Go on Kier! on 14:32 - Apr 16 with 647 views | StokieBlue |
| Go on Kier! on 14:22 - Apr 16 by monytowbray |
He's had a year as leader, a government my 16 year old daughter could raise more issues publicly with and he's polling like Lambert's results. That's the only comparison I can see involving PRP. |
Again though, context is important.
Virtually anything he raises or pushes at this time is going to get lost because the only news story in town in the pandemic. There are historical contexts for this, for instance during WW2 very little was discussed except the war but as soon as it finished other things were suddenly on the agenda and Labour romped home to victory despite Churchills popularity during the war.
In times of crisis people tend to rally around whoever is in charge. Once things are back to a more normal state they have time to think about all the rubbish that happened in that time and often opinions change pretty quickly.
I think we need to see where the polls are 6 months after the pandemic is under control to make any firm judgements.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Go on Kier! on 14:33 - Apr 16 with 646 views | monytowbray |
| Go on Kier! on 14:32 - Apr 16 by BlueBadger |
If we'd had a competent Labour leader in charge we'd probably now still be in the EU and, worst case scenario, we'd have had a coalition government and at least a chance at a half-decent response to a global pandemic. |
And which loser out of Brown/Milliband was the answer? | |
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| Go on Kier! on 14:34 - Apr 16 with 643 views | monytowbray |
| Go on Kier! on 14:32 - Apr 16 by StokieBlue |
Again though, context is important.
Virtually anything he raises or pushes at this time is going to get lost because the only news story in town in the pandemic. There are historical contexts for this, for instance during WW2 very little was discussed except the war but as soon as it finished other things were suddenly on the agenda and Labour romped home to victory despite Churchills popularity during the war.
In times of crisis people tend to rally around whoever is in charge. Once things are back to a more normal state they have time to think about all the rubbish that happened in that time and often opinions change pretty quickly.
I think we need to see where the polls are 6 months after the pandemic is under control to make any firm judgements.
SB |
If you can't stab a government dead when they're at their lowest then what does everyone think will happen when they've got their gaslighting up to full levels again?
I might bookmark this thread! | |
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| Go on Kier! on 14:37 - Apr 16 with 640 views | StokieBlue |
| Go on Kier! on 14:34 - Apr 16 by monytowbray |
If you can't stab a government dead when they're at their lowest then what does everyone think will happen when they've got their gaslighting up to full levels again?
I might bookmark this thread! |
Not really what I said.
I've merely pointed out that there are historical precedents for populations showing a large level of support for governments during times of crisis and then flipping totally the other way when those crisis times pass. I am sure in 1944 Churchill didn't expect to be totally smashed in an election a year later.
It's possible that Starmer might never recover or get close to the Tories but I just think that history shows that making judgements during crisis times doesn't always hold when those times pass and thus it's likely that it doesn't really have much to do with Starmer at all and a lot more to do with the current situation in the country.
I guess time will tell.
SB [Post edited 16 Apr 2021 14:38]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Go on Kier! on 14:50 - Apr 16 with 618 views | tractordownsouth |
| Go on Kier! on 13:06 - Apr 16 by monytowbray |
This smear campaign against Starmer barely exists in any Tory circles though. They don’t tend to read or trust what Momentum say.
Perhaps, just PERHAPS, you failed to embrace a party shift on the false narrative that the Tories aren’t deeply rooted in underhanded tactics, mud slinging, lies and appealing to the lowest common denominators? Perhaps you failed to notice Biden embraced a was of more liberal idealogies to get the left vote?
Either way, those polls are down to the fact Tories simply reject him. He’s done utterly f**k all to bring awareness to cronyism, in fact I’ve probably spoken about it more and for a longer period.
At least Corbyn brought some new folks to the party, but again you continue to tell us to f**k off. |
Don’t get me wrong, this poll sure is a worry. However the idea that he’s done nothing to highlight cronyism isn’t accurate. There have been calls for inquiries over Cameron/Greensill, and numerous PMQs questions about Hancock’s dodgy dealings.
As per your previous point, the demographic of voters does actually matter. It’s great to get people from my generation on board, however we’re mostly concentrated in already-safe Labour seats. The reason the vote share went up in 2017 while getting nowhere near winning was partly by winning suburban marginals, but also by increasing already healthy majorities in Hackney, Islington and Tottenham by another 10k votes. It’s great but utterly meaningless under the current system and until that system changes, the focus needs to be on marginals in the North, Midlands and Scotland, where Corbyn and Corbynism weren’t popular to most voters. |  |
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| Go on Kier! on 14:54 - Apr 16 with 618 views | tractordownsouth |
| Go on Kier! on 13:32 - Apr 16 by monytowbray |
Keep pretending 2017 never happened and you didn't sabotage the best chance of a Labour win since Blair... |
The 2017 election where the Labour Party got only 4 more seats than 2010, despite the worst Tory campaign in years? Implying it was anything other than a defeat is disingenuous.
How was it was “sabotaged?” | |
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