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Players released 15:04 - Apr 21 with 44770 viewsgreyhound

Hearing rumours that the next stage of the clear out is awaiting announcement.

Jack lankaster among those names that I've been given as well as a large portion of under 23s

With all of the noise about improving academy when the takeover happened this seems surprising, I wonder if that u23 contingent includes more players that are in or around the first team than anything else.

I know we're seriously lacking quality but I hope in this clear out we don't make some hasty regrettable decisions on some of the younger talent we may have.

These are horrible horrible times as a town fan, where those you pinned your hopes on are falling so far short
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Players released on 20:38 - Apr 21 with 3291 viewsITFC_Forever

Players released on 19:22 - Apr 21 by pointofblue

Seeing the news that Lankester May go should really hurt but I just feel numb. Other than Dobra Downes and Woolfenden I think I’ll feel the same about seeing any of the younger players leave. I guess it’ll always be a what if when it comes to Bishop and Dozzell - what if they didn’t pick up those injuries?

I saw Nydam mentioned but he’s not 22 until November so won’t he count as an under 21 player next year? So he won’t count towards the cap?


There isn’t a cap, it was scrapped a couple of months ago.

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Players released on 20:40 - Apr 21 with 3275 viewsxrayspecs

Players released on 20:38 - Apr 21 by ITFC_Forever

There isn’t a cap, it was scrapped a couple of months ago.


Not a salary cap but I believe there remains a senior squad size cap, 20 senior players next season.
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Players released on 20:52 - Apr 21 with 3214 viewsParky

Players released on 20:40 - Apr 21 by xrayspecs

Not a salary cap but I believe there remains a senior squad size cap, 20 senior players next season.


You are right, but it’s worth noting these might also be scrapped soon.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11095/1226939
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Players released on 20:58 - Apr 21 with 3175 viewsHarryB

Players released on 20:52 - Apr 21 by Parky

You are right, but it’s worth noting these might also be scrapped soon.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11095/1226939


i wonder who will be our front man next season?? id love piggot personally
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Players released on 21:07 - Apr 21 with 3126 viewsxrayspecs

Players released on 20:58 - Apr 21 by HarryB

i wonder who will be our front man next season?? id love piggot personally


If budget is tight then he would be a good shout. I keep an eye on AFCW and he has done well this year.

I also hope that we have the budget to aim higher than L1 forwards,
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Players released on 21:08 - Apr 21 with 3125 viewsitfcjoe

Players released on 20:38 - Apr 21 by chrismakin

People are trying to say PC's man management hasn't been great. Considering he spent the first month wrapping them all in bubble wrap, that can't be further from the truth.

Something is amiss, Fitness? realism that they just aren't good enough? I personally think the contract situation has not helped in anyway at all, I couldn't imagine going to work and expecting my staff to put in the efforts if i've just told them they have 1 month to go before they are leaving. The players know that, PC can say show me what you've got, but the players know they aren't good enough no matter what effort they put in, they just aren't of the quality needed for this club.


Whatever he has done with his man management obviously hasn’t worked because players haven’t improved and look mentally shot.

Whatever the reasons, and whatever the difference it makes for next season when a lot of players will be gone it’s hard to try and claim his man management has been good

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Players released on 21:29 - Apr 21 with 3018 viewsParky

Players released on 20:58 - Apr 21 by HarryB

i wonder who will be our front man next season?? id love piggot personally


Will Grigg
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Players released on 21:40 - Apr 21 with 2962 viewschrismakin

Players released on 21:08 - Apr 21 by itfcjoe

Whatever he has done with his man management obviously hasn’t worked because players haven’t improved and look mentally shot.

Whatever the reasons, and whatever the difference it makes for next season when a lot of players will be gone it’s hard to try and claim his man management has been good


I don't know what it is you want from a manager then Joe ( Regarding man management)

He went in, wrapped his arm around everyone, tried to install some belief into everyone.. what else do you expect a manager to do to show 'good man management skills',

So many people are acting like this guy is a novice, he's been around long enough to know how to handle people.

Just because they haven't improved doesn't mean his man management is lacking, and looking mentally shot, yeah probably because the majority are on their way out and they know it. Its quite simple. The players Fked up, they had a manager come in, give them the opportunity to show him and the fans that they are more than an average squad of players and they've done the opposite.

https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/297010-wigan-fan%E2%80%99s-honest-view-o

I can't believe he's forgotten 'how' to be the person discussed in the above

https://www.otbsports.com/soccer/former-sligo-rovers-boss-paul-cook-has-potentia

" Man Management skills second to none"


[Post edited 21 Apr 2021 21:47]

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Players released on 21:49 - Apr 21 with 2913 viewsitfcjoe

Players released on 21:40 - Apr 21 by chrismakin

I don't know what it is you want from a manager then Joe ( Regarding man management)

He went in, wrapped his arm around everyone, tried to install some belief into everyone.. what else do you expect a manager to do to show 'good man management skills',

So many people are acting like this guy is a novice, he's been around long enough to know how to handle people.

Just because they haven't improved doesn't mean his man management is lacking, and looking mentally shot, yeah probably because the majority are on their way out and they know it. Its quite simple. The players Fked up, they had a manager come in, give them the opportunity to show him and the fans that they are more than an average squad of players and they've done the opposite.

https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/297010-wigan-fan%E2%80%99s-honest-view-o

I can't believe he's forgotten 'how' to be the person discussed in the above

https://www.otbsports.com/soccer/former-sligo-rovers-boss-paul-cook-has-potentia

" Man Management skills second to none"


[Post edited 21 Apr 2021 21:47]


Man management is about doing what is required, and quite simply he hasn’t got it done with this group as we can see on the pitch.

We don’t know what is going on behind the scenes, but think it’s fairly obvious that what he has tried man management side hasn’t worked.

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Players released on 21:51 - Apr 21 with 2884 viewsSteve_M

Players released on 21:40 - Apr 21 by chrismakin

I don't know what it is you want from a manager then Joe ( Regarding man management)

He went in, wrapped his arm around everyone, tried to install some belief into everyone.. what else do you expect a manager to do to show 'good man management skills',

So many people are acting like this guy is a novice, he's been around long enough to know how to handle people.

Just because they haven't improved doesn't mean his man management is lacking, and looking mentally shot, yeah probably because the majority are on their way out and they know it. Its quite simple. The players Fked up, they had a manager come in, give them the opportunity to show him and the fans that they are more than an average squad of players and they've done the opposite.

https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/297010-wigan-fan%E2%80%99s-honest-view-o

I can't believe he's forgotten 'how' to be the person discussed in the above

https://www.otbsports.com/soccer/former-sligo-rovers-boss-paul-cook-has-potentia

" Man Management skills second to none"


[Post edited 21 Apr 2021 21:47]


Good man management is about getting the most out of individuals, building the parts into something more coherent. Cook hasn’t done that here, he may do with time and new players next season , but there is no evidence of any impact yet.

I imagine that Joe would like to have seen some tangible benefits of Cook’s man management here because I know I certainly would. What he has previously is less relevant than what he has, or hasn’t, done over the last few weeks here.

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Players released on 21:53 - Apr 21 with 2866 viewsBryanPlug

Players released on 21:49 - Apr 21 by itfcjoe

Man management is about doing what is required, and quite simply he hasn’t got it done with this group as we can see on the pitch.

We don’t know what is going on behind the scenes, but think it’s fairly obvious that what he has tried man management side hasn’t worked.


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Players released on 21:54 - Apr 21 with 2864 viewschrismakin

Players released on 21:49 - Apr 21 by itfcjoe

Man management is about doing what is required, and quite simply he hasn’t got it done with this group as we can see on the pitch.

We don’t know what is going on behind the scenes, but think it’s fairly obvious that what he has tried man management side hasn’t worked.


That's not an answer though Joe, you questioned his man management. So we've seen him vary it since being here, and it's not changed the results So bare in mind he's a successful manager, his man management has been applauded, again what else would you expect him to do.. or will you acknowledge that the players are the ones who've let everyone down, not the manager.

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Players released on 21:58 - Apr 21 with 2819 viewschrismakin

Players released on 21:51 - Apr 21 by Steve_M

Good man management is about getting the most out of individuals, building the parts into something more coherent. Cook hasn’t done that here, he may do with time and new players next season , but there is no evidence of any impact yet.

I imagine that Joe would like to have seen some tangible benefits of Cook’s man management here because I know I certainly would. What he has previously is less relevant than what he has, or hasn’t, done over the last few weeks here.


"some tangible benefits of Cook’s man management here because I know I certainly would. "

Funny that, as last night, i saw us put more balls into the box than i've ever seen us put in through the whole season, they were bloody awful mind you, but we put them in.
Saturday I saw Dozzell pick the ball up from outside our box, take it forward, and instead of turning back, he played a 1-2 with Dobra and ended up just outside their box. That's quite unusual for Dozzell
Ward, he's been quite defensive this season, but saturday and last night, he got forward alot and put some balls into the box, again not great quality but he did it.


So you see, there are things he has improved. But it depends IF you want to see them.
[Post edited 21 Apr 2021 21:59]

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Players released on 21:59 - Apr 21 with 2819 viewsitfcjoe

Players released on 21:54 - Apr 21 by chrismakin

That's not an answer though Joe, you questioned his man management. So we've seen him vary it since being here, and it's not changed the results So bare in mind he's a successful manager, his man management has been applauded, again what else would you expect him to do.. or will you acknowledge that the players are the ones who've let everyone down, not the manager.


It is an answer, your evidence of him being good elsewhere at it is utterly irrelevant.

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Players released on 22:01 - Apr 21 with 2800 viewschrismakin

Players released on 21:59 - Apr 21 by itfcjoe

It is an answer, your evidence of him being good elsewhere at it is utterly irrelevant.


Why bother ever looking at someones CV then if what ever theyve done previously is irrelevant.

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Players released on 22:05 - Apr 21 with 2774 viewsitfcjoe

Players released on 22:01 - Apr 21 by chrismakin

Why bother ever looking at someones CV then if what ever theyve done previously is irrelevant.


We are talking about what he is doing now, with this group of players. I’m not saying he’s a bad manager, just that whatever he has done man management wise with these players clearly hasn’t worked.

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Players released on 22:07 - Apr 21 with 2756 viewslongtimefan

Players released on 22:01 - Apr 21 by chrismakin

Why bother ever looking at someones CV then if what ever theyve done previously is irrelevant.


Past performance might be an indicator but it’s by no means a guarantee of future performance. Keane, Jewell, MM, Hurst and Lambert all had promotions on their CV.
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Players released on 22:12 - Apr 21 with 2724 viewschrismakin

Players released on 22:05 - Apr 21 by itfcjoe

We are talking about what he is doing now, with this group of players. I’m not saying he’s a bad manager, just that whatever he has done man management wise with these players clearly hasn’t worked.


Correct, but i've not seen you question the players just PC. It's all, PC'S not done enough, what has he not done? What 11 should he pick? what formation? there's lots of bemoaning him but no 'answers'

IMO, the previous manager got sacked in part due to his own failings, but in part down to the players performances, yet despite this, you feel a new manager should be doing more with the same players, despite this new manager being in a worse position to get the most out of this squad ( Having to have 'the chats).
Whether we like it or not, Judge has been one of 'the' better players, we can't even use him. Norwood is our best striker. He's never available etc etc etc

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Players released on 22:16 - Apr 21 with 2700 viewschrismakin

Players released on 22:07 - Apr 21 by longtimefan

Past performance might be an indicator but it’s by no means a guarantee of future performance. Keane, Jewell, MM, Hurst and Lambert all had promotions on their CV.


Only hurst's comes in close as his successes was on the way up, however was appointed at a level he hadn't worked in before
Jewell, successes were long before town
Lambert hasn't succeeded at any job since norwich
Keane - 1 season of spending the likes of £7 mill on a goalkeeper,
Mick... the best manager we had since Evans took over

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Players released on 22:35 - Apr 21 with 2607 viewsolimar

Players released on 21:54 - Apr 21 by chrismakin

That's not an answer though Joe, you questioned his man management. So we've seen him vary it since being here, and it's not changed the results So bare in mind he's a successful manager, his man management has been applauded, again what else would you expect him to do.. or will you acknowledge that the players are the ones who've let everyone down, not the manager.


His first job in charge, which he acknowledged himself, was to get the club into the play-offs, by whatever means necessary.
It was quite evident that, regardless of which division we were in, there would be a lot of changes in the summer, so the task was simply to get the best out of the existing players, a short term fix, for a play-off push.
It is indisputable that we have become considerably worse, to the point of absolute basics where we havent scored in 9 hours of football and we have just conceded 3 goals to the lowest scoring team in the entire league. At least 75% of our very worst performances this season have come under the new managers brief spell in charge.
That doesnt mean he isnt the right man for the job, it doesnt mean he wont be excellent for us next season with a new set of players.

But, in terms of finding a way to get even comparable results from this group of players, he has fared much worse than the previous manager, which is a low bar. So, his man management in that period has to be called into question.
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Players released on 22:43 - Apr 21 with 2568 viewsCokeIsKey

Players released on 22:12 - Apr 21 by chrismakin

Correct, but i've not seen you question the players just PC. It's all, PC'S not done enough, what has he not done? What 11 should he pick? what formation? there's lots of bemoaning him but no 'answers'

IMO, the previous manager got sacked in part due to his own failings, but in part down to the players performances, yet despite this, you feel a new manager should be doing more with the same players, despite this new manager being in a worse position to get the most out of this squad ( Having to have 'the chats).
Whether we like it or not, Judge has been one of 'the' better players, we can't even use him. Norwood is our best striker. He's never available etc etc etc


Cook isn’t going to suck you off mate

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Players released on 22:47 - Apr 21 with 2545 viewsChurchman

Players released on 22:05 - Apr 21 by itfcjoe

We are talking about what he is doing now, with this group of players. I’m not saying he’s a bad manager, just that whatever he has done man management wise with these players clearly hasn’t worked.


So what would have worked? Tell what the potential is of this sorry lot and why he’s failed. How could he make the goalie a better keeper? Should he have chased Norwood out of KFC and round the training ground with a cattle prod? These players are adults. They should have some responsibility for their own careers. They should see the writing on the wall and burst every sinew to show what they can do. People wang on about formations, but ultimately no formation in the world can make a team out of people who are unwilling or incapable or both.

I hear phrases like get a tune out of them, best squad in the division, words like motivate them. They’ve had every chance and have shown nothing. They are what they are. Which of our players would get near one of the top 6 teams. Downes maybe, when he’s fit? Norwood? Doesn’t every team need an unfit forward that needs a lot of chances to take one. Hardly. Sears because he was good 6 years ago? Chambers and Skuse? Think not. What about KVY? 13 games in nearly two seasons. Bishop? no longer young, career ravaged by injury. Dozzell might make Blackpool’s squad but he’d need to improve a lot to make the first team.

Why can’t people be patient and let the people who now own the club and Cook do their job? Many clearly think Cook’s time is up. So fire him after 12 games without any chance of changing the rabble he inherited. Who on that basis would you want to replace him? How about Lambert? Better than Cook according to some on here.
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Players released on 23:10 - Apr 21 with 2439 viewsGarv

Players released on 17:05 - Apr 21 by StokieBlue

We can certainly do without his idiocy.

It's not all about the performance on the pitch or at least it shouldn't be. I doubt our new owners are going to want his persistent rubbish on social media of totally self-inflicted court appearances taking him away from the club.

Let's not forget that when he was fit last season he still did no better than Jackson (same goals, 4 matches less but with less assists) who everyone says is utterly awful.

SB


But he adds so much more than Jackson. Anyone that can't see that isn't watching.

For starters, he can play up front on his own.

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Players released on 23:30 - Apr 21 with 2373 viewschrismakin

Players released on 22:35 - Apr 21 by olimar

His first job in charge, which he acknowledged himself, was to get the club into the play-offs, by whatever means necessary.
It was quite evident that, regardless of which division we were in, there would be a lot of changes in the summer, so the task was simply to get the best out of the existing players, a short term fix, for a play-off push.
It is indisputable that we have become considerably worse, to the point of absolute basics where we havent scored in 9 hours of football and we have just conceded 3 goals to the lowest scoring team in the entire league. At least 75% of our very worst performances this season have come under the new managers brief spell in charge.
That doesnt mean he isnt the right man for the job, it doesnt mean he wont be excellent for us next season with a new set of players.

But, in terms of finding a way to get even comparable results from this group of players, he has fared much worse than the previous manager, which is a low bar. So, his man management in that period has to be called into question.


The basics

There was a point under Lambert where we failed to score in 4 out of 5 games. Same squad funnily enough

Coming in you would expect any manager to have ambitions of finishing in the playoffs. However that's before you have even seen or had more than 1 training session with out lot. Who once again need to be remembered for being unable to train to an acceptable standard.

" by what ever means" that's great if you have a transfer window. If all managers could finish in the play offs by " what ever means" then the top 6 would be doable by all the league clubs.

I'd happily accept someone pointing out what PC has actually done wrong. Not just saying hasnt won.. but what he specifically hasnt done as a manager.

If you cant.. then the blame lies solely at the players. The same players 99% of the fans want gone.

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Players released on 07:22 - Apr 22 with 2135 viewsChrisd

Players released on 22:05 - Apr 21 by itfcjoe

We are talking about what he is doing now, with this group of players. I’m not saying he’s a bad manager, just that whatever he has done man management wise with these players clearly hasn’t worked.


The players have also got to play their part and meet him halfway for things to change. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. Let’s judge him when he has his own players through the door, there was enough call on here that PC was one of the best candidates for the job. You can only make that judgement on what he’s achieved at his previous clubs. Yes, it’s been very disappointing, but this lot weren’t pulling up any trees under PL either.

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