| Players released 15:04 - Apr 21 with 44977 views | greyhound |
Hearing rumours that the next stage of the clear out is awaiting announcement.
Jack lankaster among those names that I've been given as well as a large portion of under 23s
With all of the noise about improving academy when the takeover happened this seems surprising, I wonder if that u23 contingent includes more players that are in or around the first team than anything else.
I know we're seriously lacking quality but I hope in this clear out we don't make some hasty regrettable decisions on some of the younger talent we may have.
These are horrible horrible times as a town fan, where those you pinned your hopes on are falling so far short |  | | |  |
| Players released on 09:51 - Apr 22 with 4556 views | hype313 |
| Players released on 09:47 - Apr 22 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Indeed, it's been death by a thousand cuts, not death over 12 games.
This takeover couldn't have come too soon because we now have a chance to re-ignite the beast |
Agreed, which is why as much as it's been a disappointment, I'm really looking forward to the summer and the changes this club desperately needs.
And lets face it, even if Cook had got us into the play offs, we're just not equipped to beat teams in the top 6 without Norwood, and he has shown he just can't get fit. |  |
| |
| Players released on 09:57 - Apr 22 with 4516 views | monty_radio |
| Players released on 09:01 - Apr 22 by DanTheMan |
"I do hope Cook stops picking players who won't be here next season. He must have made up his mind on most of them by now."
Given what Phil has said we wouldn't even be able to field a team if we did this. Not an exaggeration. |
Although I think that you have to have at least 8 in a team for the match to continue. | |
| |
| Players released on 09:59 - Apr 22 with 4497 views | Radlett_blue |
| Players released on 09:39 - Apr 22 by portmanking |
This is the nail on the head. I think it's time to accept that people like Joe (and many others, myself included) have simply overrated the majority of this squad. It wouldn't be the first squad to be overrated on paper would it?
Too many of these players have stunk out the training ground and dressing room with a lack of ambition and underachievement and the only way to rid that is a significant cull. Cook knows what's needed. He's the most qualified manager at this level to undertake such a challenge too. Give him time. [Post edited 22 Apr 2021 9:40]
|
I agree it's possible that we may have over-rated the Town squad. Arguably the rot set in when Hurst spent his transfer kitty on 5 average League 1 players & the only signing we have subsequently made who has looked a cut above that is the rarely fit KVY.
Most fans also over-rate their own young players & again, that may be true. Downes is above this level, Bishop shows flashes but the promising Woolfenden has had a poor season. Dozzell is an above average passer of the ball. Most of the other young players probably won't even make it as average League 1 players - that is the statistical reality. |  |
| |
| Players released on 10:38 - Apr 22 with 4371 views | Churchman |
| Players released on 09:59 - Apr 22 by Radlett_blue |
I agree it's possible that we may have over-rated the Town squad. Arguably the rot set in when Hurst spent his transfer kitty on 5 average League 1 players & the only signing we have subsequently made who has looked a cut above that is the rarely fit KVY.
Most fans also over-rate their own young players & again, that may be true. Downes is above this level, Bishop shows flashes but the promising Woolfenden has had a poor season. Dozzell is an above average passer of the ball. Most of the other young players probably won't even make it as average League 1 players - that is the statistical reality. |
The rot set in many years ago, before even the dreaded Evans slithered up.
Yes, we do tend to overate are own young players, not least because we want them to do well. Natural really. Bishop looked and was excellent when he was a young player, but injury has wrecked him really. He’s not going to improve much at 24 sadly, though better players around him in a settled team might help. Dozzell? He’s 21 so maybe has a little time to develop, again in a better side. |  | | |
| Players released on 10:45 - Apr 22 with 4335 views | pointofblue |
| Players released on 10:38 - Apr 22 by Churchman |
The rot set in many years ago, before even the dreaded Evans slithered up.
Yes, we do tend to overate are own young players, not least because we want them to do well. Natural really. Bishop looked and was excellent when he was a young player, but injury has wrecked him really. He’s not going to improve much at 24 sadly, though better players around him in a settled team might help. Dozzell? He’s 21 so maybe has a little time to develop, again in a better side. |
I think we’ve let down the younger players this season, mainly through the lack of recruitment in terms of experience. Having Skuse missing for a large chunk might not have helped the midfield - having him fully fit and supporting Downes plus one of Dozzell or Bishop may have made us more solid and resulted in them having an experienced voice next to them on the field of play. I have no idea why both Lambert and Cook have played a 22-year old alongside a 19-year old at centre back and expected us to look solid, especially when we had options available to us in Donacien and Chambers. I guess the pair of them didn’t look awful at Charlton and no worse than the more experienced pairing of Nsiala and Chambers at Wimbledon on Tuesday night.
I don’t think Dobra is ready to start and it says a lot about our options that he seems viable. Lankester is another one who’s progress has been affected by injuries and needs a run in a side, maybe at League Two level. | |
| |
| Players released on 10:48 - Apr 22 with 4320 views | fatronaldo |
| Players released on 21:58 - Apr 21 by chrismakin |
"some tangible benefits of Cook’s man management here because I know I certainly would. "
Funny that, as last night, i saw us put more balls into the box than i've ever seen us put in through the whole season, they were bloody awful mind you, but we put them in.
Saturday I saw Dozzell pick the ball up from outside our box, take it forward, and instead of turning back, he played a 1-2 with Dobra and ended up just outside their box. That's quite unusual for Dozzell
Ward, he's been quite defensive this season, but saturday and last night, he got forward alot and put some balls into the box, again not great quality but he did it.
So you see, there are things he has improved. But it depends IF you want to see them. [Post edited 21 Apr 2021 21:59]
|
THIS!!!
Its SO frustrating that people so quickly forget what we have been through during the last decade and now believe that our average players all of a sudden is world beaters under a new coach. They are not!
There actually are big improvements in our play compared to how we have played for many many years. As you say ”if you choose to see them”. We could have scored 3 or 4 with those chances last game and when was the last time we could say that? |  | | |
| Players released on 10:51 - Apr 22 with 4294 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Players released on 10:45 - Apr 22 by pointofblue |
I think we’ve let down the younger players this season, mainly through the lack of recruitment in terms of experience. Having Skuse missing for a large chunk might not have helped the midfield - having him fully fit and supporting Downes plus one of Dozzell or Bishop may have made us more solid and resulted in them having an experienced voice next to them on the field of play. I have no idea why both Lambert and Cook have played a 22-year old alongside a 19-year old at centre back and expected us to look solid, especially when we had options available to us in Donacien and Chambers. I guess the pair of them didn’t look awful at Charlton and no worse than the more experienced pairing of Nsiala and Chambers at Wimbledon on Tuesday night.
I don’t think Dobra is ready to start and it says a lot about our options that he seems viable. Lankester is another one who’s progress has been affected by injuries and needs a run in a side, maybe at League Two level. |
I suspect that we will see youngish players, released this summer, performing well for new clubs next season.
When most clubs talk about young players they usually refer to those 19 or under. Trouble is introducing a youngster into our squad probably isn’t a good experience for them. |  |
| |
| Players released on 10:59 - Apr 22 with 4255 views | portmanroadblue |
One thing I have noticed with the youngsters coming through is how small and lightweight they have looked, in this division physical strength is a must, as you go up the leagues more time and space is offered with more skill involved, which, at present is a luxury we cannot afford. |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Players released on 11:14 - Apr 22 with 4178 views | RobTheMonk |
Basically, Cook's been rubbish since he's come in, but probably has enough in the bank from previous appointments to warrant a summer revamp. |  | | |
| Players released on 11:23 - Apr 22 with 4121 views | portmanking |
| Players released on 11:14 - Apr 22 by RobTheMonk |
Basically, Cook's been rubbish since he's come in, but probably has enough in the bank from previous appointments to warrant a summer revamp. |
Yeah you're right, I'd wager one of the most successful EFL managers in the last decade has enough credit in the bank...
Christ alive, I hate this short-termist Sky Sports-driven world we live in. | | | |
| Players released on 11:43 - Apr 22 with 4051 views | greyhound |
| Players released on 10:59 - Apr 22 by portmanroadblue |
One thing I have noticed with the youngsters coming through is how small and lightweight they have looked, in this division physical strength is a must, as you go up the leagues more time and space is offered with more skill involved, which, at present is a luxury we cannot afford. |
We're in the wrong league to carry people, that's the long and short of it.
Genuinely devastated by what all this has come to after the way we started this season. | | | |
| Players released on 12:06 - Apr 22 with 3958 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Players released on 09:36 - Apr 22 by hype313 |
Personally, I just think we have all collectivity over estimated the standard of our squad/players.
If we take each in isolation what have any of them achieved? Nolan, Nsiala and Norwood all done well in League Two but haven't really cut the mustard in this league, Downes, Dozzell and Bishop have shown flashes, but nothing to suggest they should be ripping this league to shreds (like everyone thought)
I just think our demise has been long winded for a while, mismangement from the top, add in managers that just weren't fit for the job and recruitment which has been throw enough Sh!t and hope something sticks.
Watson said on a pod recently, we have amalgamated a Frankenstein team over the past few years and we're seeing the pitfalls of that.
I thought Cook would come in and improve things, and that clearly hasn't happened, but equally I think we have to take a step back and realize that this mis match of a confidence and mentally shot team with constant injuries, poor form and questionable attitudes that have lead to this position. |
Nolan and Nsiala played in a team that got to the league 1 play offs |  | | |
| Players released (n/t) on 13:06 - Apr 22 with 3801 views | ketton_itfc |
| Players released on 09:00 - Apr 22 by Churchman |
Show me any post that says he’s done a good job. Nobody has said that. He hasn’t said that. The point is he hasn’t had a chance to do a job at all. The EADT stats though slanted, do indicate a long term problem. Your own post re 7 defeats in 9 at the end of last season says a lot. Inertia and decay is in the club from top to bottom for years yet people expect Cook to amble in here and ‘motivate’ 40+ unfit players, many of whom aspire to be journeymen, into Real Madrid. It was never going to happen. Hope all you want. The players can’t do it.
I’m disappointed he’s not done better but the only mistake I think he’s made is not keeping to the formula he wants to play. The results would still have been poor because the players can’t play, but that’s secondary to getting structure in place.
This notion that under Lambert we’d have been in the play offs is dubious too. They scraped 3 wins, but nobody can tell me they wouldn’t have got a hiding at Gillingham with the windbag in charge. They’d have lost at Wimbledon and Northampton probably too.
The point is that the players have taken no responsibility whatsoever in my view. It’s mostly down to them. |
|  | | |
| Players released on 13:12 - Apr 22 with 3756 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Players released on 08:25 - Apr 22 by itfcjoe |
WHy just the constant need to try and reframe the debate, as far as I can see people aren't saying Cook should go, even though some are disappointed with his start.
We finished last season with 7 defeats out of 9 games, the period of 12 games in our nearly 2 seasons in this division that includes that run is the only time we have picked up so few points in a 12 game stretch as Cook's run here. We've scored 6 goals, we've never been as blunt going forwards over a consistent period in this league.
We are worse than we have been at any point this season. The manager's first job was to get us into the play offs. He has totally failed at this.
You can talk about player x, player y and player z - but we are getting less out of all of them now than we were before Cook came in.
I can't see anyone saying he shouldn't get the summer, and he shouldn't get next season after a window - but it's a massive concern at just how badly he has done here so far for me, at quite how much worse we are than what we were before with the same players.
It's been a failure of man management, he'll get another chance with a fresh set of players next year - but there's no need to dance around and try to make excuses and claim he's doing a good job currently - he simply isn't, he'd admit that even if some fans won't. |
You may not say you want him to go, but you are the first person to hop on his back after the last few results.
If he gets a chance to rebuild and then messes it up he will go cause these new owners won’t mess about. And nobody is saying he’s doing well.
But to say it’s bad man management is just a hit and Hope statement. Maybe it’s not the man management but the players attitude and they can’t handle a bit of criticism. And after such a poor season last year why should a manager dance round and tell them how great they are when they give us nothing and always let us down. One day you may actually say that these players are a load of rubbish and they should take some responsibility. |  |
| |
| Players released on 13:15 - Apr 22 with 3730 views | RobTheMonk |
| Players released on 11:23 - Apr 22 by portmanking |
Yeah you're right, I'd wager one of the most successful EFL managers in the last decade has enough credit in the bank...
Christ alive, I hate this short-termist Sky Sports-driven world we live in. |
Calling it as I see it - we've gone backwards under Cook. That's concerning, but he has proven in the past that's he's a solid manager. | | | |
| Players released on 13:17 - Apr 22 with 3712 views | hype313 |
| Players released on 12:06 - Apr 22 by reusersfreekicks |
Nolan and Nsiala played in a team that got to the league 1 play offs |
Yes, you're right, but if we're honest, neither have showered themselves in glory in their time here. | |
| |
| Players released on 13:24 - Apr 22 with 3663 views | itfcjoe |
| Players released on 13:12 - Apr 22 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
You may not say you want him to go, but you are the first person to hop on his back after the last few results.
If he gets a chance to rebuild and then messes it up he will go cause these new owners won’t mess about. And nobody is saying he’s doing well.
But to say it’s bad man management is just a hit and Hope statement. Maybe it’s not the man management but the players attitude and they can’t handle a bit of criticism. And after such a poor season last year why should a manager dance round and tell them how great they are when they give us nothing and always let us down. One day you may actually say that these players are a load of rubbish and they should take some responsibility. |
Your final paragraph is a contradiction to me - if the players can't handle a bit of criticism then it is bad man management to then do so.
Man management is fundamentally about getting the best out of what you have, whether that be in football or business - treating people how they need to be treated to deliver the most value for the business/team. |  |
| |
| Players released on 13:28 - Apr 22 with 3634 views | jaykay |
| Players released on 10:45 - Apr 22 by pointofblue |
I think we’ve let down the younger players this season, mainly through the lack of recruitment in terms of experience. Having Skuse missing for a large chunk might not have helped the midfield - having him fully fit and supporting Downes plus one of Dozzell or Bishop may have made us more solid and resulted in them having an experienced voice next to them on the field of play. I have no idea why both Lambert and Cook have played a 22-year old alongside a 19-year old at centre back and expected us to look solid, especially when we had options available to us in Donacien and Chambers. I guess the pair of them didn’t look awful at Charlton and no worse than the more experienced pairing of Nsiala and Chambers at Wimbledon on Tuesday night.
I don’t think Dobra is ready to start and it says a lot about our options that he seems viable. Lankester is another one who’s progress has been affected by injuries and needs a run in a side, maybe at League Two level. |
well butcher and osman looked solid as a pair of 21 year olds. if you are good enough age is not everything |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
| |
| Players released on 13:34 - Apr 22 with 3588 views | PJH |
| Players released on 13:24 - Apr 22 by itfcjoe |
Your final paragraph is a contradiction to me - if the players can't handle a bit of criticism then it is bad man management to then do so.
Man management is fundamentally about getting the best out of what you have, whether that be in football or business - treating people how they need to be treated to deliver the most value for the business/team. |
Certainly.
Using common sense in other words because there are different personalities and different personalities need to be treated in different ways to get the most from them. |  | | |
| Players released on 13:36 - Apr 22 with 3583 views | portmanking |
| Players released on 13:24 - Apr 22 by itfcjoe |
Your final paragraph is a contradiction to me - if the players can't handle a bit of criticism then it is bad man management to then do so.
Man management is fundamentally about getting the best out of what you have, whether that be in football or business - treating people how they need to be treated to deliver the most value for the business/team. |
You're talking as if these players would have gone on to steamroller League One with a manager that offered a collective arm around their shoulder. That's simply not the case. Lambert was that collective arm around the shoulder, at least in the earliest months of his reign, and look where that got us?
The reality that none of us want to accept is that this squad lacks winners, personality, drive. You name it, they lack it. No-one should criticise Cook for saying what so many of us have said/felt for too long now. | | | |
| Players released on 13:40 - Apr 22 with 3552 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Players released on 13:24 - Apr 22 by itfcjoe |
Your final paragraph is a contradiction to me - if the players can't handle a bit of criticism then it is bad man management to then do so.
Man management is fundamentally about getting the best out of what you have, whether that be in football or business - treating people how they need to be treated to deliver the most value for the business/team. |
But Lambert tried that didn’t he ? He tried the nice approach and he was terrible and you like most people wanted him gone. Cook came in tried the nice positive approach and it didn’t work so when these players let him down and let the club down over and over again. He told them a few home truths. Once again it seems that is all on the manager always and not that these players can’t take a bit of criticism. Paul Hurst gave them some and they didn’t like that either.
He didn’t have this problem at Wigan or Pompey the players loved him there, I’m sure he wasn’t always sweetness and light with them. I’ve just come to the conclusion that we have a group of players who are soft as sh1t. Nothing works with them. They weren’t good under Lambert they aren’t good under cook they weren’t good under Hurst the ones that were here. [Post edited 22 Apr 2021 13:40]
| |
| |
| Players released on 14:03 - Apr 22 with 3453 views | itfcjoe |
| Players released on 13:36 - Apr 22 by portmanking |
You're talking as if these players would have gone on to steamroller League One with a manager that offered a collective arm around their shoulder. That's simply not the case. Lambert was that collective arm around the shoulder, at least in the earliest months of his reign, and look where that got us?
The reality that none of us want to accept is that this squad lacks winners, personality, drive. You name it, they lack it. No-one should criticise Cook for saying what so many of us have said/felt for too long now. |
I didn't expect Cook to get us up, but I certainly thought from where we were we would get in the play offs - that would have given him a njce foundation for next season with the clear out that was bound to happen due to contract situation in place.
Surely no-one expected 11 points from 12 games, against a load of bottom sides that we generally have fared well against since relegation? Just 6 goals in 12 games? And for the performances to be as bad as anything we've seen since relegation?
Lambert improved us from Hurst in his early months, but we simply lacked the quality required for the league above once we had got rid of so many key players. Cook has made us worse than what we all assumed was rock bottom......it's incredibly frustrating and heaps a lot of unnecessary pressure on himself for next season both from the fans and the owners, there will be very little margin for error.
If now we could pick up 9-10 points from our final 4 it would be great, POs are out of reach we'd alla ccept, but think it would help him as well as the fan base - if we continue to play as poorly until the end of the season then it's really not good for anyone involved | |
| |
| Players released on 14:06 - Apr 22 with 3430 views | N2_Blue |
| Players released on 13:40 - Apr 22 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
But Lambert tried that didn’t he ? He tried the nice approach and he was terrible and you like most people wanted him gone. Cook came in tried the nice positive approach and it didn’t work so when these players let him down and let the club down over and over again. He told them a few home truths. Once again it seems that is all on the manager always and not that these players can’t take a bit of criticism. Paul Hurst gave them some and they didn’t like that either.
He didn’t have this problem at Wigan or Pompey the players loved him there, I’m sure he wasn’t always sweetness and light with them. I’ve just come to the conclusion that we have a group of players who are soft as sh1t. Nothing works with them. They weren’t good under Lambert they aren’t good under cook they weren’t good under Hurst the ones that were here. [Post edited 22 Apr 2021 13:40]
|
Exactly this... why some fans are more willing to blame Cook I struggle to understand.
3 managers haven't got anything out of this squad....its the players and culture of the club....and the fact that our younger players really are not as good as most of us thought they were going to be.
The culture needs to changes as much as the squad....which is why I'll be happy to get rid of as many of the squad as is feasible. We really need a complete reset of the club...and it's all happening thankfully after far too long, owners, manager....now just the playing squad to go. |  |
| |
| Players released on 14:07 - Apr 22 with 3428 views | hype313 |
| Players released on 14:03 - Apr 22 by itfcjoe |
I didn't expect Cook to get us up, but I certainly thought from where we were we would get in the play offs - that would have given him a njce foundation for next season with the clear out that was bound to happen due to contract situation in place.
Surely no-one expected 11 points from 12 games, against a load of bottom sides that we generally have fared well against since relegation? Just 6 goals in 12 games? And for the performances to be as bad as anything we've seen since relegation?
Lambert improved us from Hurst in his early months, but we simply lacked the quality required for the league above once we had got rid of so many key players. Cook has made us worse than what we all assumed was rock bottom......it's incredibly frustrating and heaps a lot of unnecessary pressure on himself for next season both from the fans and the owners, there will be very little margin for error.
If now we could pick up 9-10 points from our final 4 it would be great, POs are out of reach we'd alla ccept, but think it would help him as well as the fan base - if we continue to play as poorly until the end of the season then it's really not good for anyone involved |
Just can't see where the goals are going to come from Joe, regardless of formations.
We can't score against the worst teams in the league, it's been a massive Achilles heel for us, and I'd love us to get maximum points for the remainder of the season for a bit of feel good factor if nothing else. | |
| |
| Players released on 14:09 - Apr 22 with 3407 views | chrismakin |
| Players released on 14:03 - Apr 22 by itfcjoe |
I didn't expect Cook to get us up, but I certainly thought from where we were we would get in the play offs - that would have given him a njce foundation for next season with the clear out that was bound to happen due to contract situation in place.
Surely no-one expected 11 points from 12 games, against a load of bottom sides that we generally have fared well against since relegation? Just 6 goals in 12 games? And for the performances to be as bad as anything we've seen since relegation?
Lambert improved us from Hurst in his early months, but we simply lacked the quality required for the league above once we had got rid of so many key players. Cook has made us worse than what we all assumed was rock bottom......it's incredibly frustrating and heaps a lot of unnecessary pressure on himself for next season both from the fans and the owners, there will be very little margin for error.
If now we could pick up 9-10 points from our final 4 it would be great, POs are out of reach we'd alla ccept, but think it would help him as well as the fan base - if we continue to play as poorly until the end of the season then it's really not good for anyone involved |
They say you dont become a bad manager overnight. PC also wasnt out of the game long.
So why is there still a vast refusal to see blame in the playing squad for how this season has ended despite even people like yourself wanting a clean out of these players.
PC isnt a Lambert appointment who's failed for years. Hes been highly successful at this level and comes into the role following these successful periods.
It's just amazing how PCs methods are being questioned rather than looking at the fact that for various reasons the players are not performing. It could be fitness which has been highly spoke about which you dont agree with however. These players are being told they wont be kept on. Their friends are losing their jobs. Family members have died. Colleagues have admitted mental health issues.
All of the above is way more 'likely' to be effecting the results over the apparent lack of man management from quite frankly the most successful league 1 manager in recent times. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
