| What's quite sad 07:32 - Apr 24 with 3793 views | hype313 |
Is that we're seeing people going in early on Cook just so they can win the internet in time, if things go south.
Crying shame that we finally have something we have all been screaming from the rooftops for years about with the new ownership and vision, and ten games in the doomsters are already having misgivings about the manager.
Sir Bob took 13 points from his first 10 games, Burley 10 points from 10 games but everyone at the time gave them the benefit of the doubt, can't understand why Cook isn't given the same given the circumstances around the club and squad. |  |
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| What's quite sad on 07:38 - Apr 24 with 2062 views | saffers12 |
I could not agree more, well said |  | | |
| What's quite sad on 07:47 - Apr 24 with 2014 views | Beckets |
Sir Bob got 5 wins, 4 draws and 1 defeat in his first 10 games so how you got to 13 points I’m not sure. You’re not an accountant are you? Try Hurst and Lambert for a better analogy to Cook’s first 10 games perhaps. |  | | |
| What's quite sad on 07:56 - Apr 24 with 1986 views | GlasgowBlue |
I think Cook will be a fantastic manager for us in the long term. He has a proven track record and I’m fully behind him.
However, he has made a pig’s ear of this season. He inherited a team that was 9 points from second place with three games in hand. We are now 18 points from 2nd having okayed the same number if games.
I dint think it’s unreasonable to give fair criticism. |  |
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| What's quite sad on 07:58 - Apr 24 with 1981 views | hype313 |
| What's quite sad on 07:47 - Apr 24 by Beckets |
Sir Bob got 5 wins, 4 draws and 1 defeat in his first 10 games so how you got to 13 points I’m not sure. You’re not an accountant are you? Try Hurst and Lambert for a better analogy to Cook’s first 10 games perhaps. |
Sorry edit, I make it 13 points from 10 games, I'm looking at 11v11 and according to that (If he took over on the 13th Jan 1969) then he got 3 wins, 4 draws and 2 defeats | |
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| What's quite sad on 08:00 - Apr 24 with 1977 views | hype313 |
| What's quite sad on 07:56 - Apr 24 by GlasgowBlue |
I think Cook will be a fantastic manager for us in the long term. He has a proven track record and I’m fully behind him.
However, he has made a pig’s ear of this season. He inherited a team that was 9 points from second place with three games in hand. We are now 18 points from 2nd having okayed the same number if games.
I dint think it’s unreasonable to give fair criticism. |
I do, he's come in to a sh1tstorm, a completely broken club, you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. | |
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| What's quite sad on 08:06 - Apr 24 with 1941 views | Beckets |
| What's quite sad on 07:58 - Apr 24 by hype313 |
Sorry edit, I make it 13 points from 10 games, I'm looking at 11v11 and according to that (If he took over on the 13th Jan 1969) then he got 3 wins, 4 draws and 2 defeats |
Look again. It’s as I stated earlier. That’s the equivalent of 19 points in Sir Bobs first 10 games and two Divisions higher as well! As I say Hurst and Lamberts first 10 games bear comparison to Cooks. I’m not disputing the overall point you’re making about giving Cook more time by the way. | | | |
| What's quite sad on 08:07 - Apr 24 with 1958 views | itfcjoe |
These posts are pointless, they are designed to get up arrows for me.
Why does everything have to be put into two such distinct camps? For me Cook has been useless with what he has done on the pitch, he’s taken us backwards and I’m amazed at that as I had high hopes he’d get us going in the right directions.
Some are happy to lay blame totally at feet if players, personally I’m not and I think he should be getting more out of them than Lambert managed (who we all agree was underperforming)
I don’t like the chucking of players under the bus constantly, I don’t like the way so many fans are feeling emboldened to turn so aggressively and at times viciously against the players.
Do I think Cook has done a good job? Not in any way so far
Would I sack Cook now? Absolutely not
Would I be disappointed if new owners want to go in a different direction? In a way as want to see him get his own squad in as had so much success, but not particularly on what I’ve seen on the pitch, or heard from Cook.
I think the Burley comparison doesn’t stack up - GB came in to literally the worst team in the league with zero expectation of survival, and whilst too young for Robson he did an excellent job straight away [Post edited 24 Apr 2021 8:28]
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| What's quite sad on 08:12 - Apr 24 with 1888 views | GlasgowBlue |
| What's quite sad on 08:00 - Apr 24 by hype313 |
I do, he's come in to a sh1tstorm, a completely broken club, you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. |
We’d just won three on the bounce. All against top six sides. The players hadn’t given up. Previous to that we had a credible draw against Oxford who were on a great run of form and we beat Blackpool, a team who are now on a run of form better than any team in the league. Yeah there was some dross as well. A 0-0 draw against Northampton. Then again, they beat us 3-0 on Tuesday.
We had been mediocre all season but still found ourselves there or thereabouts. Had Cook got just 4 wins from his 14 games we would be in the play offs. Instead he has managed just 2. As mediocre as we have been, he should have been able to achieve 2 more wins. Just 4 bloody wins is all we needed.
He has to bare some responsibility for our poor form. We haven’t had a run of form as bad as this all season under the previous manager.
He’s been swinging punches in the dark with regards to formations, tactics and line ups. One minute he throws the the players under the bus. The next he says it wouldn’t be fair to to blame the players. Players who don’t make the 18 one week then start the following game. Then they are dropped again.
We gave Lambert a free hit in our relegation season even though he had time and resources to turn things around. I don’t think we should be giving Cook a free hit.
As I said, I’m fully behind him. Think they’ll do well for us. But he’s done a poor job given the position he found the team in. | |
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| What's quite sad on 08:16 - Apr 24 with 1879 views | itfcjoe |
| What's quite sad on 08:12 - Apr 24 by GlasgowBlue |
We’d just won three on the bounce. All against top six sides. The players hadn’t given up. Previous to that we had a credible draw against Oxford who were on a great run of form and we beat Blackpool, a team who are now on a run of form better than any team in the league. Yeah there was some dross as well. A 0-0 draw against Northampton. Then again, they beat us 3-0 on Tuesday.
We had been mediocre all season but still found ourselves there or thereabouts. Had Cook got just 4 wins from his 14 games we would be in the play offs. Instead he has managed just 2. As mediocre as we have been, he should have been able to achieve 2 more wins. Just 4 bloody wins is all we needed.
He has to bare some responsibility for our poor form. We haven’t had a run of form as bad as this all season under the previous manager.
He’s been swinging punches in the dark with regards to formations, tactics and line ups. One minute he throws the the players under the bus. The next he says it wouldn’t be fair to to blame the players. Players who don’t make the 18 one week then start the following game. Then they are dropped again.
We gave Lambert a free hit in our relegation season even though he had time and resources to turn things around. I don’t think we should be giving Cook a free hit.
As I said, I’m fully behind him. Think they’ll do well for us. But he’s done a poor job given the position he found the team in. |
If you are really harsh to Lambert and take out the first 6 games of the season where we got 16 points as a reverse blip, plus the last 3 games where Gill and Walker were doing more......you are left with a 20 game sample which we thought was the nadir of the season....we picked up 25 points
For Cook to return the same points per game over his 16 game stint we need 9 points from the last 4 games.....that’s how bad things have been results wise | |
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| What's quite sad on 08:23 - Apr 24 with 1844 views | hype313 |
| What's quite sad on 08:07 - Apr 24 by itfcjoe |
These posts are pointless, they are designed to get up arrows for me.
Why does everything have to be put into two such distinct camps? For me Cook has been useless with what he has done on the pitch, he’s taken us backwards and I’m amazed at that as I had high hopes he’d get us going in the right directions.
Some are happy to lay blame totally at feet if players, personally I’m not and I think he should be getting more out of them than Lambert managed (who we all agree was underperforming)
I don’t like the chucking of players under the bus constantly, I don’t like the way so many fans are feeling emboldened to turn so aggressively and at times viciously against the players.
Do I think Cook has done a good job? Not in any way so far
Would I sack Cook now? Absolutely not
Would I be disappointed if new owners want to go in a different direction? In a way as want to see him get his own squad in as had so much success, but not particularly on what I’ve seen on the pitch, or heard from Cook.
I think the Burley comparison doesn’t stack up - GB came in to literally the worst team in the league with zero expectation of survival, and whilst too young for Robson he did an excellent job straight away [Post edited 24 Apr 2021 8:28]
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Firstly this isn't a dig at you Joe, it just what I've witnessed on the whole over the past week or so.
I just find it incomprehensible that the expectation is, given the decline over the past 3 years with the same players, that people expect Cook to come in and transform things overnight. Yes the performances haven't been great by any stretch, but given these are the same players who have been performing woefully over a number of seasons we then expect a guy to come in and wave a magic wand?
With regards to what you've heard, and I know you are close to a couple of players, do you not think that at somepoint they have to take responsibility for themselves? All we hear is Hurst was awful, Lambert was awful and now we're hearing the same about Cook, do we keep changing the manager to placate the underperforming players, or change the players to suit a manager who has overperformed in his recent roles? | |
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| What's quite sad on 08:24 - Apr 24 with 1834 views | OsborneOneNil |
| What's quite sad on 08:16 - Apr 24 by itfcjoe |
If you are really harsh to Lambert and take out the first 6 games of the season where we got 16 points as a reverse blip, plus the last 3 games where Gill and Walker were doing more......you are left with a 20 game sample which we thought was the nadir of the season....we picked up 25 points
For Cook to return the same points per game over his 16 game stint we need 9 points from the last 4 games.....that’s how bad things have been results wise |
Yes, makes for painful reading. I was 100% happy with Cook and am almost shocked at what has happened.
But, I’m also 100% on him for next season and look forward to him doing very well for us. I’d be amazed if he doesn’t achieve success with us. |  | | |
| What's quite sad on 08:25 - Apr 24 with 1825 views | TrumptonBlue |
| What's quite sad on 07:47 - Apr 24 by Beckets |
Sir Bob got 5 wins, 4 draws and 1 defeat in his first 10 games so how you got to 13 points I’m not sure. You’re not an accountant are you? Try Hurst and Lambert for a better analogy to Cook’s first 10 games perhaps. |
Yes, I keep reading on here that Sir Bob had a terrible start, but he really didn't. Town were 18th when he took over, they then lost just three of the last 16 games to finish 12th.
Of course, there were tricky spells later that might have spelt curtains for Sir Bob in today's game - 1 point from the first 7 games in 69/70; 10 defeats in 12 in the middle of that season; 2 points from 6 at the start of 70/71 (including no goals scored in the first five games); 2 wins from the first 13 league games in 71/72; losing 7-0 to Sheffield United...
The famous protests calling for Sir Bob to be sacked came in the League Cup defeat to Manchester United in September 1971 - more than two and a half years after he took over. The narrative that Town fans were calling for him to go very early in his tenure is a bit of a myth. |  | | |
| What's quite sad on 08:35 - Apr 24 with 1768 views | GlasgowBlue |
| What's quite sad on 08:23 - Apr 24 by hype313 |
Firstly this isn't a dig at you Joe, it just what I've witnessed on the whole over the past week or so.
I just find it incomprehensible that the expectation is, given the decline over the past 3 years with the same players, that people expect Cook to come in and transform things overnight. Yes the performances haven't been great by any stretch, but given these are the same players who have been performing woefully over a number of seasons we then expect a guy to come in and wave a magic wand?
With regards to what you've heard, and I know you are close to a couple of players, do you not think that at somepoint they have to take responsibility for themselves? All we hear is Hurst was awful, Lambert was awful and now we're hearing the same about Cook, do we keep changing the manager to placate the underperforming players, or change the players to suit a manager who has overperformed in his recent roles? |
No one is expecting him to transform things overnight. As Joe posted, just a continuation of Lamberts mediocrity would have been enough to keep us in contention. | |
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| What's quite sad on 08:39 - Apr 24 with 1716 views | TrumptonBlue |
| What's quite sad on 07:58 - Apr 24 by hype313 |
Sorry edit, I make it 13 points from 10 games, I'm looking at 11v11 and according to that (If he took over on the 13th Jan 1969) then he got 3 wins, 4 draws and 2 defeats |
Your first problem there is that that's only nine games.
Beckets' stats are correct. Results were:
A Everton D 2-2
H Man Utd W 1-0
A Leeds L 0-2
A Arsenal W 2-0
A Wolves D 1-1
H Man City W 2-1
A Tottenham D 2-2
A West Ham W 3-1
H Coventry D 0-0
H Sunderland W 1-0 | | | |
| What's quite sad on 08:43 - Apr 24 with 1694 views | itfcjoe |
| What's quite sad on 08:23 - Apr 24 by hype313 |
Firstly this isn't a dig at you Joe, it just what I've witnessed on the whole over the past week or so.
I just find it incomprehensible that the expectation is, given the decline over the past 3 years with the same players, that people expect Cook to come in and transform things overnight. Yes the performances haven't been great by any stretch, but given these are the same players who have been performing woefully over a number of seasons we then expect a guy to come in and wave a magic wand?
With regards to what you've heard, and I know you are close to a couple of players, do you not think that at somepoint they have to take responsibility for themselves? All we hear is Hurst was awful, Lambert was awful and now we're hearing the same about Cook, do we keep changing the manager to placate the underperforming players, or change the players to suit a manager who has overperformed in his recent roles? |
I've just edited to post to clarify "what I've heard" is what I've heard from Cook on the official channels - no inside info/gossip or anything along those lines
Whilst you find it incomprehensible that expectation is/was for Cook to transform things (I thought he'd improve us personally and have us right up there for POs but falling short either in getting there or in them).....I find it incomprehensible that people are accepting of how bad we have become since the change, where every week seems to be a newer low, and that all the blame has transferred from Lambert onto the players in it's entirity.
As GB mentioned above, if in Cook's 12 games we'd have won 4, drawn 4 and lost 4 - against the weakest sides in the division, we'd be in the top 6.......when he was appointed did anyone expect him to get less than 16 points in 12 games? I certainly didn't.
He'll rightly get the summer, and I'm excited to see what he and we do - but the confidence levels have definitely dropped. | |
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| What's quite sad on 08:46 - Apr 24 with 1669 views | GeoffSentence |
| What's quite sad on 07:47 - Apr 24 by Beckets |
Sir Bob got 5 wins, 4 draws and 1 defeat in his first 10 games so how you got to 13 points I’m not sure. You’re not an accountant are you? Try Hurst and Lambert for a better analogy to Cook’s first 10 games perhaps. |
He's only one out then, 14 points.
Edit: Already debunked above. [Post edited 24 Apr 2021 8:47]
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| What's quite sad on 08:47 - Apr 24 with 1663 views | BryanPlug |
| What's quite sad on 08:07 - Apr 24 by itfcjoe |
These posts are pointless, they are designed to get up arrows for me.
Why does everything have to be put into two such distinct camps? For me Cook has been useless with what he has done on the pitch, he’s taken us backwards and I’m amazed at that as I had high hopes he’d get us going in the right directions.
Some are happy to lay blame totally at feet if players, personally I’m not and I think he should be getting more out of them than Lambert managed (who we all agree was underperforming)
I don’t like the chucking of players under the bus constantly, I don’t like the way so many fans are feeling emboldened to turn so aggressively and at times viciously against the players.
Do I think Cook has done a good job? Not in any way so far
Would I sack Cook now? Absolutely not
Would I be disappointed if new owners want to go in a different direction? In a way as want to see him get his own squad in as had so much success, but not particularly on what I’ve seen on the pitch, or heard from Cook.
I think the Burley comparison doesn’t stack up - GB came in to literally the worst team in the league with zero expectation of survival, and whilst too young for Robson he did an excellent job straight away [Post edited 24 Apr 2021 8:28]
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[content removed at owner's request] |  |
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| What's quite sad on 08:48 - Apr 24 with 1659 views | portmanking |
| What's quite sad on 08:07 - Apr 24 by itfcjoe |
These posts are pointless, they are designed to get up arrows for me.
Why does everything have to be put into two such distinct camps? For me Cook has been useless with what he has done on the pitch, he’s taken us backwards and I’m amazed at that as I had high hopes he’d get us going in the right directions.
Some are happy to lay blame totally at feet if players, personally I’m not and I think he should be getting more out of them than Lambert managed (who we all agree was underperforming)
I don’t like the chucking of players under the bus constantly, I don’t like the way so many fans are feeling emboldened to turn so aggressively and at times viciously against the players.
Do I think Cook has done a good job? Not in any way so far
Would I sack Cook now? Absolutely not
Would I be disappointed if new owners want to go in a different direction? In a way as want to see him get his own squad in as had so much success, but not particularly on what I’ve seen on the pitch, or heard from Cook.
I think the Burley comparison doesn’t stack up - GB came in to literally the worst team in the league with zero expectation of survival, and whilst too young for Robson he did an excellent job straight away [Post edited 24 Apr 2021 8:28]
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For my money, it's posts like yours that are creating these two entrenched camps. Cook came into a very unique situation. Taking over a squad that's shot to pieces physically and mentally, whilst a takeover is completed with all the fresh ideas and strategy that goes with that.
Cook has, on multiple occasions, challenged these players to prove they want to be a part of this new era. Time and again they've let him down on the field and on the training ground. They lack the drive to be winners. The last 24 months has proven that. We've been like chocolate teapots at the mere sign of pressure in six-pointers with sides in and around them. To seriously expect Cook to turn this side into consistent winners was folly. We'd been on a slow downward spiral since October. |  | | |
| What's quite sad on 08:49 - Apr 24 with 1645 views | GeoffSentence |
| What's quite sad on 07:56 - Apr 24 by GlasgowBlue |
I think Cook will be a fantastic manager for us in the long term. He has a proven track record and I’m fully behind him.
However, he has made a pig’s ear of this season. He inherited a team that was 9 points from second place with three games in hand. We are now 18 points from 2nd having okayed the same number if games.
I dint think it’s unreasonable to give fair criticism. |
I don't thik people should ignore the cirmcumstances though, in particular that the squad know that they are virtually all out on their ear at the end of the season. It would be difficult for even the very finest manager to get the players to bust a gut under those conditions. | |
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| What's quite sad on 08:52 - Apr 24 with 1616 views | itfcjoe |
| What's quite sad on 08:24 - Apr 24 by OsborneOneNil |
Yes, makes for painful reading. I was 100% happy with Cook and am almost shocked at what has happened.
But, I’m also 100% on him for next season and look forward to him doing very well for us. I’d be amazed if he doesn’t achieve success with us. |
I’d have personally preferred Cowley, but was 100% behind in thinking it was an excellent appointment.
Totally behind him for the summer and excited to see the overdue overhaul.....but am I now 100% confident in him having success here......quite frankly no. | |
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| What's quite sad on 08:53 - Apr 24 with 1601 views | Hullblue |
| What's quite sad on 08:47 - Apr 24 by BryanPlug |
[content removed at owner's request] |
Sounds like we don’t need a manager at all then? Good news. |  |
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| What's quite sad on 08:55 - Apr 24 with 1592 views | PJH |
If it had been 3 points for a win SBR would have had 19 points from his first 10 games but he actually got 14 at 2 points for a win.
With SBR being in the top division I do think that trying to compare his start with Cook's is a good idea, at least not if you are trying to make the point that you are.
edit-I see that this has already been pointed out, I should have read the whole thread before jumping on your factual errors. [Post edited 24 Apr 2021 8:57]
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| What's quite sad on 08:59 - Apr 24 with 1529 views | BryanPlug |
| What's quite sad on 08:53 - Apr 24 by Hullblue |
Sounds like we don’t need a manager at all then? Good news. |
[content removed at owner's request] | |
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| What's quite sad on 09:11 - Apr 24 with 1476 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
The internet wasn't around then.
Similar discussions probably happened down the pub and at the ground.
I've not seen many people wanting cook out, most of what I have seen is people being underwhelmed by the impact so far. |  |
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| What's quite sad on 09:14 - Apr 24 with 1458 views | hype313 |
| What's quite sad on 08:55 - Apr 24 by PJH |
If it had been 3 points for a win SBR would have had 19 points from his first 10 games but he actually got 14 at 2 points for a win.
With SBR being in the top division I do think that trying to compare his start with Cook's is a good idea, at least not if you are trying to make the point that you are.
edit-I see that this has already been pointed out, I should have read the whole thread before jumping on your factual errors. [Post edited 24 Apr 2021 8:57]
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Yeah my maths isn't great first thing in the morning, especially after a few beers last night... | |
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