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The public gets what the public wants 10:35 - Apr 29 with 6044 viewsGlasgowBlue



Have we reached peak Trump in this country with an electorate not giving a flying fcuk about the morals of it's leader?

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The public gets what the public wants on 10:41 - Apr 29 with 2008 viewsStokieBlue

It's shameful stuff really.

The public aren't going to vote him out it seems but they might not even get the chance depending on whether he lied in parliament yesterday.

Starmer attacked fairly heavily on sleaze so that somewhat goes against those saying he isn't challenging the Tories, Boris just seems to be able to do no wrong in the eyes of some.

SB

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The public gets what the public wants on 10:43 - Apr 29 with 1997 viewsDarth_Koont

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The public gets what the public wants on 10:46 - Apr 29 with 1970 viewsDanTheMan

The public gets what the public wants on 10:41 - Apr 29 by StokieBlue

It's shameful stuff really.

The public aren't going to vote him out it seems but they might not even get the chance depending on whether he lied in parliament yesterday.

Starmer attacked fairly heavily on sleaze so that somewhat goes against those saying he isn't challenging the Tories, Boris just seems to be able to do no wrong in the eyes of some.

SB


"whether he lied in parliament yesterday."

He's already lied on several occasions hasn't he? Sure it's minor things but he's definitely done it.

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The public gets what the public wants on 10:49 - Apr 29 with 1947 viewsStokieBlue

The public gets what the public wants on 10:46 - Apr 29 by DanTheMan

"whether he lied in parliament yesterday."

He's already lied on several occasions hasn't he? Sure it's minor things but he's definitely done it.


From what they were saying on Newsnight it looks like Starmer set him up. Directly got him to deny he said the quote about "bodies in the streets" so it's on record as a firm denial on the minutes.

If a recording emerges (which with Cummings involved isn't beyond the realms of possibilities) he could be charged with misleading parliament and would have to resign.

As you say though, he seems to get away with the other lies.

SB

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The public gets what the public wants on 10:53 - Apr 29 with 1930 viewshype313

The public gets what the public wants on 10:49 - Apr 29 by StokieBlue

From what they were saying on Newsnight it looks like Starmer set him up. Directly got him to deny he said the quote about "bodies in the streets" so it's on record as a firm denial on the minutes.

If a recording emerges (which with Cummings involved isn't beyond the realms of possibilities) he could be charged with misleading parliament and would have to resign.

As you say though, he seems to get away with the other lies.

SB


I do wonder (And I could be completely wrong) if Starmer and Cummins have had discussions i.e Pin him in the commons and I will release audio quotes.

it's wildly speculative, but Starmer was so carefully worded in his questioning, when Boris denied it, he then sat down very smugly with a wry smile.

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The public gets what the public wants on 10:55 - Apr 29 with 1915 viewsStokieBlue

The public gets what the public wants on 10:53 - Apr 29 by hype313

I do wonder (And I could be completely wrong) if Starmer and Cummins have had discussions i.e Pin him in the commons and I will release audio quotes.

it's wildly speculative, but Starmer was so carefully worded in his questioning, when Boris denied it, he then sat down very smugly with a wry smile.


He was in his element, cross-examining the witness and getting the information he wanted on the record.

Something is up.

SB

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The public gets what the public wants on 10:55 - Apr 29 with 1909 viewsPinewoodblue

The answer is in the question. Any Tory voter would want a Tory PM, so if you fall into that category then, in response to the question asked, you go for Boris.

Not sure however why Keir scores so poorly as even if you aren’t a fan if you are inclined to vote Labour then you should want him as PM.

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The public gets what the public wants on 10:57 - Apr 29 with 1899 viewsBeckets

The public gets what the public wants on 10:53 - Apr 29 by hype313

I do wonder (And I could be completely wrong) if Starmer and Cummins have had discussions i.e Pin him in the commons and I will release audio quotes.

it's wildly speculative, but Starmer was so carefully worded in his questioning, when Boris denied it, he then sat down very smugly with a wry smile.


Starmer certainly went into lawyer mode yesterday and Johnson looked distinctly uncomfortable. I do think the 1922 Committee will get Johnson out of office before the public. I suspect he has largely served his purpose now as far as they’re concerned.
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The public gets what the public wants on 11:01 - Apr 29 with 1879 viewsPinewoodblue

The public gets what the public wants on 10:57 - Apr 29 by Beckets

Starmer certainly went into lawyer mode yesterday and Johnson looked distinctly uncomfortable. I do think the 1922 Committee will get Johnson out of office before the public. I suspect he has largely served his purpose now as far as they’re concerned.


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The public gets what the public wants on 11:05 - Apr 29 with 1868 viewsSwansea_Blue

The public gets what the public wants on 10:55 - Apr 29 by Pinewoodblue

The answer is in the question. Any Tory voter would want a Tory PM, so if you fall into that category then, in response to the question asked, you go for Boris.

Not sure however why Keir scores so poorly as even if you aren’t a fan if you are inclined to vote Labour then you should want him as PM.


"even if you aren’t a fan if you are inclined to vote Labour then you should want him as PM"

Have you seen what Labour supporters are doing to themselves? There's probably less vocal opposition towards Starmer in many parts of the Tory party.

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The public gets what the public wants on 11:05 - Apr 29 with 1865 viewsYou_Bloo_Right

And yet from 2 days ago ..

Around a third of Britons (35%) think Boris Johnson is trustworthy, compared with 42% for the Labour leader Keir Starmer

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/boris-johnson-seen-less-trustworthy-keir-

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The public gets what the public wants on 11:19 - Apr 29 with 1816 viewsTimefliesbyintheblue

I would not take too much notice of these Polls; be in no doubt that if any of these allegations are proven, then Johnson will be in trouble; but for a Labour party and its leader to improve their rating, sooner or later they must present something to the public other than just attacking the Tories.
Only clear policies that forget the past and move the country forward will entice back those voters that left in recent times. There are no policies at the moment - or if there are, they need to be discussed more with the public.
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The public gets what the public wants on 11:27 - Apr 29 with 1798 viewsBeckets

The public gets what the public wants on 11:01 - Apr 29 by Pinewoodblue

Would you prefer Hunt or Gove?


None of them. I’m a long way away from being a Tory!
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The public gets what the public wants on 11:29 - Apr 29 with 1794 viewsGlasgowBlue

The public gets what the public wants on 11:05 - Apr 29 by You_Bloo_Right

And yet from 2 days ago ..

Around a third of Britons (35%) think Boris Johnson is trustworthy, compared with 42% for the Labour leader Keir Starmer

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/boris-johnson-seen-less-trustworthy-keir-


Precisely my point. They don’t care about the PM’s moral character. They know he’s a liar and untrustworthy.

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The public gets what the public wants on 11:35 - Apr 29 with 1772 viewsHARRY10

The public gets what the public wants on 10:55 - Apr 29 by Pinewoodblue

The answer is in the question. Any Tory voter would want a Tory PM, so if you fall into that category then, in response to the question asked, you go for Boris.

Not sure however why Keir scores so poorly as even if you aren’t a fan if you are inclined to vote Labour then you should want him as PM.


It is worth noting how Churchill fared in WW2 - and how he was dumped out of office a couple of months or so after the war in Eurooe ended - by a massive majority.

But I suspect he will not be around to face that possibilit, as the thought is that he is evading answering who initially paid the tarting up of the flat in number 11.

With previous in not declaring 'gifts' he can hardly claim innocence of the charge. And has compounded this allegation by repeatedly trying to lie his way out of it

For the apologists on here who bleat that things like this do not matter. I will put it into a football context.

If a football agent had been found to have paid for a managers house renovations, supporters would want to know if that manager had signed any player on the agents books. That would be the minimal required information.

But if said manager refuses point blank to reveal whether he has signed any player on the agents books - then speculation would inevitably follow.

'The ministerial code says this: "It is a well-established and recognised rule that no Minister should accept gifts, hospitality or services from anyone which would, or might appear to, place him or her under an obligation.....'

The code is not so much about stopping possible corruption, but to ensure that there is full transparency so as to avoid any accusation or suspicion of corruption.

Si why has Johnson not been open about this ?
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The public gets what the public wants on 11:35 - Apr 29 with 1767 viewslowhouseblue

you have to ask why the current stuff isn't getting through. i fear a lot of people have stopped listening. they either don't believe that the particular issues that are being pushed are sufficiently serious (a lot of it is rather in the detail of westminster process stories which excite politicians and the media but simply bore everyone else) or they've come to mistrust those who are attacking him. he's been called a liar about too many things without sufficient reason and people have simply lost interest and written the accusations off. for many, the liar accusation has been devalued through overuse. i also think that the focus on the dyson stuff, for example, was badly misjudged - most people think he did the right thing.

why this stuff isn't getting through is pretty critical. there needs to be more selectivity in the attack. at the moment the credibility of the attack seems to be as a much under question as boris's own credibility.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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The public gets what the public wants on 11:35 - Apr 29 with 1770 viewstractordownsouth

The public gets what the public wants on 10:49 - Apr 29 by StokieBlue

From what they were saying on Newsnight it looks like Starmer set him up. Directly got him to deny he said the quote about "bodies in the streets" so it's on record as a firm denial on the minutes.

If a recording emerges (which with Cummings involved isn't beyond the realms of possibilities) he could be charged with misleading parliament and would have to resign.

As you say though, he seems to get away with the other lies.

SB


It won't actually make any difference in terms of the ministerial code - it'll just be if the audio recording changes public opinion. In his final response/tantrum to Starmer yesterday, Johnson told at least 2 lies and neither of them were picked up on by the speaker or the wider media as far as I'm aware.

1) He said Stamer opposed the Brexit deal, despite Labour voting for it in parliament.

2) He said that leaving the EMA enabled the vaccine rollout, when actually we sourced the vaccines when we were still members of it.

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The public gets what the public wants on 11:37 - Apr 29 with 1762 viewstractordownsouth

The public gets what the public wants on 11:29 - Apr 29 by GlasgowBlue

Precisely my point. They don’t care about the PM’s moral character. They know he’s a liar and untrustworthy.


I remember that clip from a David Dimbleby documentary around the time of the 2019 election where he spoke to a woman who said she knew he was a liar but didn't mind because it showed that "he's human"

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The public gets what the public wants on 11:43 - Apr 29 with 1731 viewsStokieBlue

The public gets what the public wants on 11:35 - Apr 29 by tractordownsouth

It won't actually make any difference in terms of the ministerial code - it'll just be if the audio recording changes public opinion. In his final response/tantrum to Starmer yesterday, Johnson told at least 2 lies and neither of them were picked up on by the speaker or the wider media as far as I'm aware.

1) He said Stamer opposed the Brexit deal, despite Labour voting for it in parliament.

2) He said that leaving the EMA enabled the vaccine rollout, when actually we sourced the vaccines when we were still members of it.


I don't think the public sees them in the same way though. Those are interpretations of facts which I am sure he did lie about but are too specific for many to care about.

Lying about saying he would prefer bodies in the streets isn't ambiguous and doesn't leave room for interpretation.

I think he would be up for breach of the code if it turns out to be a lie.

SB

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The public gets what the public wants on 11:52 - Apr 29 with 1694 viewsDarth_Koont

The public gets what the public wants on 11:05 - Apr 29 by Swansea_Blue

"even if you aren’t a fan if you are inclined to vote Labour then you should want him as PM"

Have you seen what Labour supporters are doing to themselves? There's probably less vocal opposition towards Starmer in many parts of the Tory party.


Just to make my anti-Starmer stance clear (and put the criticism from nominal Labour supporters and members in perspective):

He’s been a huge disappointment based on his leadership pitch which almost immediately appeared to have been a misrepresentation of who he is and what he stands for. He has actively distanced himself from his policy pledges in opposition and proven himself to be uninterested in unity, in fact he’s been purging and marginalising the left of the party from the start. Perhaps this would have been clearer during his leadership campaign if he hadn’t hidden some of the donors who would have shown those true colours.

Also this is being played out internally within the party and in Twitter echo chambers. That’s not why Starmer is drooping in the polls.

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The public gets what the public wants on 11:54 - Apr 29 with 1689 viewsHARRY10

The public gets what the public wants on 11:35 - Apr 29 by lowhouseblue

you have to ask why the current stuff isn't getting through. i fear a lot of people have stopped listening. they either don't believe that the particular issues that are being pushed are sufficiently serious (a lot of it is rather in the detail of westminster process stories which excite politicians and the media but simply bore everyone else) or they've come to mistrust those who are attacking him. he's been called a liar about too many things without sufficient reason and people have simply lost interest and written the accusations off. for many, the liar accusation has been devalued through overuse. i also think that the focus on the dyson stuff, for example, was badly misjudged - most people think he did the right thing.

why this stuff isn't getting through is pretty critical. there needs to be more selectivity in the attack. at the moment the credibility of the attack seems to be as a much under question as boris's own credibility.


au contraire

Any time Johnson has been called a liar it is with evifdence to back it up. Without that evidence his accusers face the fate if one K Hopkins. Even the Royal Family has taken the media to court when it has been wrongly accused if something.

The Dyson 'affair' has been intentionally misrepresented as one of Johnson bending the rules to achiev a worthy aim - when the truth is quite the opposite. He didn't give a flying fck about covid or the danger it posed.

hence his failure to attend 5 COBRA meetings when government agencies were being called to decide how best to deal with the threat.

He even bunked off to Chequers for 12 days stating that officials should not send him ministerial red boxes as he would not read them.

Yet he had time to try and fix it so Dyson avoided his tax liability. I wonder how many NHS staff were afforded the same concerns over their PAYE.
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The public gets what the public wants on 12:04 - Apr 29 with 1644 viewslowhouseblue

The public gets what the public wants on 11:54 - Apr 29 by HARRY10

au contraire

Any time Johnson has been called a liar it is with evifdence to back it up. Without that evidence his accusers face the fate if one K Hopkins. Even the Royal Family has taken the media to court when it has been wrongly accused if something.

The Dyson 'affair' has been intentionally misrepresented as one of Johnson bending the rules to achiev a worthy aim - when the truth is quite the opposite. He didn't give a flying fck about covid or the danger it posed.

hence his failure to attend 5 COBRA meetings when government agencies were being called to decide how best to deal with the threat.

He even bunked off to Chequers for 12 days stating that officials should not send him ministerial red boxes as he would not read them.

Yet he had time to try and fix it so Dyson avoided his tax liability. I wonder how many NHS staff were afforded the same concerns over their PAYE.


i'm certain to a group who are vehemently opposed to him the lies are all beyond question. that wasn't my point. it is how the accusation plays with the wider public. i think it isn't playing terribly well. most people give him more leeway over the interpretation of what he said, and to most people the 'liar' attack comes across as a bit obsessive, vindictive, and extremely partisan. similarly the stuff about dyson.

personally i think the much better attack would be about his competence not his character. the character attack is not working. essentially a lot of people like his character - when you say liar the worst they hear is chancer, rouge, and nonconformist. those are things people like about him. a bit of constructive dishonesty comes across as charm. they think all politicians are liars, but at least boris is up front about it. the character attack is just divisive. it isn't working outside of a small bubble. far better to show that he isn't up to the difficult bits of the job, that he doesn't command detail, that he makes bad judgement calls.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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The public gets what the public wants on 12:09 - Apr 29 with 1613 viewsHerbivore

The public gets what the public wants on 11:35 - Apr 29 by tractordownsouth

It won't actually make any difference in terms of the ministerial code - it'll just be if the audio recording changes public opinion. In his final response/tantrum to Starmer yesterday, Johnson told at least 2 lies and neither of them were picked up on by the speaker or the wider media as far as I'm aware.

1) He said Stamer opposed the Brexit deal, despite Labour voting for it in parliament.

2) He said that leaving the EMA enabled the vaccine rollout, when actually we sourced the vaccines when we were still members of it.


If he was still a hack at the Telegraph they'd be publishing yet another retraction in his name. What will happen now he's PM? You're right, both statements are hugely and deliberately misleading.

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The public gets what the public wants on 12:16 - Apr 29 with 1574 viewsHARRY10

As the disturbing reality is that it is not too difficult to fool stupid people.... as Farage, Trump and previously J Archer know.

Tell them what they want to hear, pander to their ignorance and the world is yours my lad.

And it won't be the electorate who removes this bloated excrescence, it will be fellow MPs and the judicial system

And it will be a Jimmy Savile type 'cleansing of the air', when so many stampeded over each other to state how they always knew he was a wrong 'un.
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The public gets what the public wants on 12:26 - Apr 29 with 1544 viewsGlasgowBlue

The public gets what the public wants on 12:04 - Apr 29 by lowhouseblue

i'm certain to a group who are vehemently opposed to him the lies are all beyond question. that wasn't my point. it is how the accusation plays with the wider public. i think it isn't playing terribly well. most people give him more leeway over the interpretation of what he said, and to most people the 'liar' attack comes across as a bit obsessive, vindictive, and extremely partisan. similarly the stuff about dyson.

personally i think the much better attack would be about his competence not his character. the character attack is not working. essentially a lot of people like his character - when you say liar the worst they hear is chancer, rouge, and nonconformist. those are things people like about him. a bit of constructive dishonesty comes across as charm. they think all politicians are liars, but at least boris is up front about it. the character attack is just divisive. it isn't working outside of a small bubble. far better to show that he isn't up to the difficult bits of the job, that he doesn't command detail, that he makes bad judgement calls.


You make two very good points.

1. That the public thinks all politicians are liars.
We've had expenses scandals, cash for honours, Tobacco advertising in Formula One, Mandelson's 2 (or was it 3) resignations etc which happened under a Labour government. The public may conclude that kicking out the Tories would only result in another dishonest bunch taking over. So stick with what we have. At least the pubs are reopening and the Euros start in a couple of months.

2. A lot of people like his character
Even before he became PM people knew he was a serial adulterer, helped his mate get a journalist beat up ETC. It was priced in. So when Johnson is exposed as a liar, a nation rolls it's eyes.


I think with the No 10 refurb, people aren't particularly bothered. We see lavish décor in the White House, Macron in The Élysée Palace and our PM in a pokey flat above the office. It's not something that is cutting through.

It needs something that the public can look at as being completely out of touch. So when we had the expenses scandal and there was wholesale mortgage fraud, what really pissed people off was a duckhouse and somebody claiming to clean their moat.

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