| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? 19:31 - May 7 with 5097 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
Not been on here much (actually been working) so apologies if someone's said it already... but Labour have been destroyed in these local elections... even with all Boris's feck ups the public still trust the Tories over Kier's Labour.
He's done no better, or perhaps worse, than Corbyn would've done.
Maybe it's because Kier's perceived as a bit of a toff like the Tory lot. Or doesn't have any policies. He's been showing up Tory mismanagement for me, but it's obviously not cutting through to the public.
Labour should get Jess Philips in. Someone who would appeal to the north, and everyone, frankly. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |  |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 09:26 - May 8 with 1334 views | Darth_Koont |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 09:14 - May 8 by Herbivore |
Definitely not a cult. |
You seem determined to disagree with everyone about everything.
I’ll leave you to it. |  |
| |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 11:02 - May 8 with 1307 views | Herbivore |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 09:26 - May 8 by Darth_Koont |
You seem determined to disagree with everyone about everything.
I’ll leave you to it. |
It's just frankly bizarre that you still gloss over 2019 when appraising Corbyn's time as Labour leader. I know it becomes hard to defend him and his policies if you confront the GE result head on, but come on. |  |
| |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 11:15 - May 8 with 1293 views | Guthrum |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 08:54 - May 8 by Darth_Koont |
“Labour needs to look at what Biden did in the US”
Biden created a broader coalition and embraced the left. And wasn’t afraid to talk about progressive, transformative policies.
So basically if Starmer had stuck to his leadership pledges and hadn’t almost immediately gone back on them ... |
A problem Starmer has (which Biden doesn't) is that a lot of the progressives, lefties and other potential allies are in other parties who, for some reason, resist demands to unite under Labour. Perhaps because of Labour's historically somewhat domineering attitude on the subject ("you little folk must and should join our Party, the one true way"). "We are the only party who can beat the Tories" doesn't foster much of a spirit of equitable cooperation - nor is it true in by any means all constituencies. |  |
| |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 11:16 - May 8 with 1289 views | Darth_Koont |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 11:02 - May 8 by Herbivore |
It's just frankly bizarre that you still gloss over 2019 when appraising Corbyn's time as Labour leader. I know it becomes hard to defend him and his policies if you confront the GE result head on, but come on. |
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we put both 2017 and 2019 together? And within the overall context of a Labour Party leaking support ever since the high of 1997.
Pretending that 2019 is the definitive view on Corbyn/socialism and what Labour needs to move away from is exactly the same mistake the current leadership are making. | |
| |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 13:37 - May 8 with 1250 views | Herbivore |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 11:16 - May 8 by Darth_Koont |
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we put both 2017 and 2019 together? And within the overall context of a Labour Party leaking support ever since the high of 1997.
Pretending that 2019 is the definitive view on Corbyn/socialism and what Labour needs to move away from is exactly the same mistake the current leadership are making. |
There's leaking support and then there's losing a raft of previously untouchable Labour strongholds in the space of a few years. I think losing an 80 seat majority to the Tories is pretty definitive to be honest, I think arguing otherwise or mitigating Corbyn's culpability for such a catastrophic defeat isn't really going to help Labour to move forward as an effective opposition party. The cult of Corbyn needs to let go and move on, frankly. | |
| |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 14:41 - May 8 with 1223 views | Darth_Koont |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 13:37 - May 8 by Herbivore |
There's leaking support and then there's losing a raft of previously untouchable Labour strongholds in the space of a few years. I think losing an 80 seat majority to the Tories is pretty definitive to be honest, I think arguing otherwise or mitigating Corbyn's culpability for such a catastrophic defeat isn't really going to help Labour to move forward as an effective opposition party. The cult of Corbyn needs to let go and move on, frankly. |
So you’re incapable of doing it?
I’ll leave you to your death cult. | |
| |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 16:04 - May 8 with 1199 views | HARRY10 |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:38 - May 7 by gtsb1966 |
He has no passion. I'm a floating voter but predominantly have voted for labour. If you can't appeal to the people of Hartlepool you're really in the wrong job. He should definitely resign. Nothing will change with him as leader. The public have made their minds up about him. |
Appeal to voters who supported Farage, and all the bigotry and hate that involves.
Voters so dim they voted for the very governments who have fcked them up royally over the past decade
Too stupid to grasp that someone who is known as an habitual liar might be likely to be lying to them (see UK fishermen/farmers)
The presumption here is that just because someone is deemed 'working class' (whatever that is) they have the same views on race and social justice as others similarly labelled. Check the views of the unionist 'working class' of Belfast and Glasgow
Check the Labour vote in Wales, or London - and all the other places they were not 'wiped out' in.
Politics has a lengthy list of pronouncements on the mould being broke.
Barely a couple of years back we were being told that the days of two party politics were over. Brexit was a victory for the little man' - when it was funded and ran by the extreme;y wealthy, many not even British.
What you are actually seeing is the media over exciting itself, as it always does when there is something ..... to over excite itself about.. |  | | |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 22:13 - May 8 with 1147 views | HotShotHamish |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 16:04 - May 8 by HARRY10 |
Appeal to voters who supported Farage, and all the bigotry and hate that involves.
Voters so dim they voted for the very governments who have fcked them up royally over the past decade
Too stupid to grasp that someone who is known as an habitual liar might be likely to be lying to them (see UK fishermen/farmers)
The presumption here is that just because someone is deemed 'working class' (whatever that is) they have the same views on race and social justice as others similarly labelled. Check the views of the unionist 'working class' of Belfast and Glasgow
Check the Labour vote in Wales, or London - and all the other places they were not 'wiped out' in.
Politics has a lengthy list of pronouncements on the mould being broke.
Barely a couple of years back we were being told that the days of two party politics were over. Brexit was a victory for the little man' - when it was funded and ran by the extreme;y wealthy, many not even British.
What you are actually seeing is the media over exciting itself, as it always does when there is something ..... to over excite itself about.. |
HARRY10
Your attitude is one of the many reasons Labour are doing so badly.
Calling huge swathes of people from many different walks of life dim & bigots alienates the party from many of its' core base.
The incorrect stereotypes that you and many other aloof Labour supporters use to talk about brexit & vote leave will not win you any support outside your echo chambers that the left seem to love.
Why would voters you constantly denigrate ever vote Labour? | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 01:26 - May 9 with 1117 views | HARRY10 |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 22:13 - May 8 by HotShotHamish |
HARRY10
Your attitude is one of the many reasons Labour are doing so badly.
Calling huge swathes of people from many different walks of life dim & bigots alienates the party from many of its' core base.
The incorrect stereotypes that you and many other aloof Labour supporters use to talk about brexit & vote leave will not win you any support outside your echo chambers that the left seem to love.
Why would voters you constantly denigrate ever vote Labour? |
Yes, it should have been me sacked for Labour losing every vote.
However if a voter cannot grasp that Johnson is an habitual liar then I am happy to refer to them as being either incredibly thick and/or gullible.
And if they are willing to embrace the thoughts of known racists, then guess what ?
And your politics might be one of pandering to such odious views in order to garner votes. Mine are certainly not. Which I suspect tells us much about both of us in that respect.
And if you were able to think beyond the party line (your masters words) you might just ask yourself why this so called denigrating of the working class (who they ?) did not lead to the loss of various mayoral seats and the Welsh government.
And as to Johnson being a liar, who will dump on you at the first opportunity, then you do not have to talk to UK fishermen, farmers, Ulster unionists or even ex-partners. No, you need only to look at tomorrow's papers and watch the Queens speech on Tuesday
"Boris Johnson is set to admit that his plans for investment to “level up” disadvantaged areas of the country will be hit by the need for additional spending to help the NHS to recover from the coronavirus pandemic."
And do spare us all any drivel about how important this is - as that is not the point. It is one of him already knowing this, but choosing to fill the heads of the simple minded with guff about levelling up when he would have been well aware that was not possible, nor, I suspect, ever intended | | | |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 01:51 - May 9 with 1110 views | Ryorry |
This thread really is a microcosm of one basic reason why Labour are struggling to oust what should be Tory sitting fu ..sorry, I mean ducks.
Everyone on the spectrum from socialist left to moderate right who should be canny enough to unite on booting the lying corrupto deviates out, is instead wasting their time & energy on arguing & fighting each other.
Loadsa other reasons for Thursday's vote too - Hartlepool history re Mandelson, voters stupidly blaming Labour for cuts in local services instead of correctly assigning the blame to Tory cuts in funding; free daily PPBroadcasts by Tories due to pandemic, lack of public scrutiny of Tories due to pandemic (no public meetings or doorstp convos); false perception that successful vaccination roll-out is thanks to the tories, not NHS - etc etc.
Anyway, as I've said for past few years - Labour Party was a 20thC concept suited to 20thC conditions. Obviously times have changed & things/people have moved on - but Labour hasn't right now. Blair (love him or loathe him) got that; Corbyn didn't; Starmer does but isn't reforming enough. We need a new GreenLeft alliance to prioritise saving the planet - literally - and progress the UK in the process.
Think it needs Guthers to lead it tho! Who's in?!  |  |
| |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 10:49 - May 9 with 1043 views | Ryorry |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 20:34 - May 7 by Darth_Koont |
By the way, I really like your idea of re-inventing the left around the Greens.
A. Climate change is the elephant in the room. And if we can’t handle something as serious as that then we’re probably not doing much forward-thinking anywhere else.
B. It’s inherently a move away from the status quo and same old, same old that has hollowed out politics in England over the past 20 years.
C. It’s about looking after children and future generations. Our political discussions have been focused on the middle-aged (not the elderly) and their interests. But that’s really never what a country needs. In the same way that companies that focus exclusively on their big sellers end up going backwards. And FWIW I’ll never understand why a country that’s good for its young won’t be good for everyone else. That’s the success of the Nordic countries. |
OMG, we agree!  | |
| |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 11:19 - May 9 with 1019 views | HotShotHamish |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 01:26 - May 9 by HARRY10 |
Yes, it should have been me sacked for Labour losing every vote.
However if a voter cannot grasp that Johnson is an habitual liar then I am happy to refer to them as being either incredibly thick and/or gullible.
And if they are willing to embrace the thoughts of known racists, then guess what ?
And your politics might be one of pandering to such odious views in order to garner votes. Mine are certainly not. Which I suspect tells us much about both of us in that respect.
And if you were able to think beyond the party line (your masters words) you might just ask yourself why this so called denigrating of the working class (who they ?) did not lead to the loss of various mayoral seats and the Welsh government.
And as to Johnson being a liar, who will dump on you at the first opportunity, then you do not have to talk to UK fishermen, farmers, Ulster unionists or even ex-partners. No, you need only to look at tomorrow's papers and watch the Queens speech on Tuesday
"Boris Johnson is set to admit that his plans for investment to “level up” disadvantaged areas of the country will be hit by the need for additional spending to help the NHS to recover from the coronavirus pandemic."
And do spare us all any drivel about how important this is - as that is not the point. It is one of him already knowing this, but choosing to fill the heads of the simple minded with guff about levelling up when he would have been well aware that was not possible, nor, I suspect, ever intended |
I'm not a Labour supporter, I'm a Conservative.
I was correct about your outdated attitude towards all tories, your narrative is is completely misguided and shows how desperate the situation is for labour.
Anybody who dismisses millions of people as thick because they don't share your views is student-like politics.
Keep it up though, if makes it easier to win more council seats in places like Ipswich 😠| | | |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 11:34 - May 9 with 997 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 01:51 - May 9 by Ryorry |
This thread really is a microcosm of one basic reason why Labour are struggling to oust what should be Tory sitting fu ..sorry, I mean ducks.
Everyone on the spectrum from socialist left to moderate right who should be canny enough to unite on booting the lying corrupto deviates out, is instead wasting their time & energy on arguing & fighting each other.
Loadsa other reasons for Thursday's vote too - Hartlepool history re Mandelson, voters stupidly blaming Labour for cuts in local services instead of correctly assigning the blame to Tory cuts in funding; free daily PPBroadcasts by Tories due to pandemic, lack of public scrutiny of Tories due to pandemic (no public meetings or doorstp convos); false perception that successful vaccination roll-out is thanks to the tories, not NHS - etc etc.
Anyway, as I've said for past few years - Labour Party was a 20thC concept suited to 20thC conditions. Obviously times have changed & things/people have moved on - but Labour hasn't right now. Blair (love him or loathe him) got that; Corbyn didn't; Starmer does but isn't reforming enough. We need a new GreenLeft alliance to prioritise saving the planet - literally - and progress the UK in the process.
Think it needs Guthers to lead it tho! Who's in?! |
Mandelson is sadly not history...he is currently advising Starmer! |  |
| |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 11:35 - May 9 with 996 views | noggin |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 11:19 - May 9 by HotShotHamish |
I'm not a Labour supporter, I'm a Conservative.
I was correct about your outdated attitude towards all tories, your narrative is is completely misguided and shows how desperate the situation is for labour.
Anybody who dismisses millions of people as thick because they don't share your views is student-like politics.
Keep it up though, if makes it easier to win more council seats in places like Ipswich 😠|
Your first sentence says it all. Politics is not football. |  |
| |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 11:45 - May 9 with 985 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 11:34 - May 9 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Mandelson is sadly not history...he is currently advising Starmer! |
But he isn’t listening. |  |
| |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 13:47 - May 9 with 952 views | Ryorry |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 11:34 - May 9 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Mandelson is sadly not history...he is currently advising Starmer! |
I was referring to his history locally with that particular constituency. | |
| |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 13:54 - May 9 with 936 views | Ryorry |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 11:19 - May 9 by HotShotHamish |
I'm not a Labour supporter, I'm a Conservative.
I was correct about your outdated attitude towards all tories, your narrative is is completely misguided and shows how desperate the situation is for labour.
Anybody who dismisses millions of people as thick because they don't share your views is student-like politics.
Keep it up though, if makes it easier to win more council seats in places like Ipswich 😠|
"Anybody who dismisses millions of people as thick because they don't share your views is student-like politics"
Possibly not millions, but when one local resident tells a reporter "I voted Tory instead of Labour, because under Labour we didn't have any foodbanks, but since the Tories came in we've got 9 now" - and
- you've got to wonder ... | |
| |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 13:56 - May 9 with 926 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 13:47 - May 9 by Ryorry |
I was referring to his history locally with that particular constituency. |
Mandelson was very popular in Hartlepool. He polled 26,000, 26,000 and 22,000 in the 3 elections he contested. His successor polled 12,000, 18,000, 16,000 and 14,000 in the four that he contested. |  |
| |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 14:11 - May 9 with 917 views | HARRY10 |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 11:19 - May 9 by HotShotHamish |
I'm not a Labour supporter, I'm a Conservative.
I was correct about your outdated attitude towards all tories, your narrative is is completely misguided and shows how desperate the situation is for labour.
Anybody who dismisses millions of people as thick because they don't share your views is student-like politics.
Keep it up though, if makes it easier to win more council seats in places like Ipswich 😠|
So our duty rightie keeps to the script..... make something and reply to that
I have not dismissed millions, nor is any dismissal based on them being Tories.
Anyone who thinks that Johnson and Farage have not been lying to them is thick. Even his own blood and marital family state that he cannot be trusted, and that he is a congenital liar.
We are about to see the guff you halfwits swallowed, thrown back in your face as the levelling up of the north is about to be shelved on Tuesday.
And even more risible is the nonsense that Johnson, like Farage, is anti-establishment. Remember the bleats about how the House of Lords was supposed to be the enemies of the people. Seems like everything fatboy spouts he changes his mind about later as he has been so busy giving Lordships to his mates the Lords is now the second largest legislative chamber in the world after China’s National People’s Congress.
I wonder how many of those are from the so called red wall..... other than the former Revolutionary Communist Party member Marie Fox stated "we support unconditionally the right of the Irish people to carry out their struggle for national liberation in whatever way they choose"
A fine choice for Johnson to give a peerage to, given those remarks were made in relation to the 1984 Brighton bombing - whereas Corbyn who has consistently opposed the use of violence is the devil himself, being a closet Russian, who fought along side Stalin and shot Lord Mountbatten with an air rifle supplied to him by East German border guards who were on holiday in Islington at the time.
But then as long as your betters say that is the party line, then you will slavishly regurgitate it for them.
A true useful idiot - who like the cretins in Hartlepool may find out sooner rather than later that they no longer have any use | | | |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 14:21 - May 9 with 903 views | Ryorry |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 13:56 - May 9 by GlasgowBlue |
Mandelson was very popular in Hartlepool. He polled 26,000, 26,000 and 22,000 in the 3 elections he contested. His successor polled 12,000, 18,000, 16,000 and 14,000 in the four that he contested. |
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/22/peter-mandelson-legacy-hartlepo
He was extremely divisive - popular with some & unpopular with others. One staunch Labourite caller on 'Any Answers' yesterday describd him in effect as a traitor, citing how he preferred to listen to LP HQ rather than local residents. | |
| |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 14:58 - May 9 with 883 views | Leaky |
Re-sign Kier Starmer is he one of those whose contract runs out . He didn't even make the bench today obviously Cook doesn't rate him. |  | | |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 15:01 - May 9 with 873 views | tractordownsouth |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 00:08 - May 8 by Darth_Koont |
No airbrush needed.
Brexit was the big problem – something Starmer is having to own now.
I'll be fascinated to see how this is spun next week. |
Yes Brexit was a large problem - I think the biggest issue was actually Corbyn and Starmer choosing to vote down May's deal, because by Winter 2019 they were screwed whichever way they went.
However, you conveniently ignore that Corbyn went into the 2019 election with the worst net approval of any leader ever. By far. One poll (posted below) had him at -66 in September 2019. Another (also posted below) had him at -45 in November.
By comparison, in June 2017 he was on roughly -10. And you can't blame it solely on "smears" because he didn't exactly get a favourable press in 2017 either did he?
Your Mick analogy only works if Mick had been in charge of Town when we got relegated.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/jeremy-corbyn-most-unpopular-oppositio
https://www.ft.com/content/80b6c686-1052-11ea-a7e6-62bf4f9e548a |  |
| |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 15:11 - May 9 with 861 views | Leaky |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 11:19 - May 9 by HotShotHamish |
I'm not a Labour supporter, I'm a Conservative.
I was correct about your outdated attitude towards all tories, your narrative is is completely misguided and shows how desperate the situation is for labour.
Anybody who dismisses millions of people as thick because they don't share your views is student-like politics.
Keep it up though, if makes it easier to win more council seats in places like Ipswich 😠|
Sorry down voted you by mistake completely agree with you . However you p1ssing in the wind argueing with this lot. | | | |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 15:20 - May 9 with 852 views | Darth_Koont |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 15:01 - May 9 by tractordownsouth |
Yes Brexit was a large problem - I think the biggest issue was actually Corbyn and Starmer choosing to vote down May's deal, because by Winter 2019 they were screwed whichever way they went.
However, you conveniently ignore that Corbyn went into the 2019 election with the worst net approval of any leader ever. By far. One poll (posted below) had him at -66 in September 2019. Another (also posted below) had him at -45 in November.
By comparison, in June 2017 he was on roughly -10. And you can't blame it solely on "smears" because he didn't exactly get a favourable press in 2017 either did he?
Your Mick analogy only works if Mick had been in charge of Town when we got relegated.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/jeremy-corbyn-most-unpopular-oppositio
https://www.ft.com/content/80b6c686-1052-11ea-a7e6-62bf4f9e548a |
I just wrote a long post, lost it and can’t be bothered to write it again. It’s just re-hashing stuff I’ve already gone over repeatedly.
But in summary, Change UK typified the opposition Corbyn received after 2017 when the previous complaints about his ability to win votes were disproved. Then it became about disloyal briefings, antisemitism smears and dogmatic People’s Vote manoeuvres. That played unfortunately right into the hands of Tories who were looking to exploit Brexit divisions in an election.
Now we’ve got the same people with the same Change UK mentality trying the same stuff. Still playing into the Tories’ hands but with no-one else to blame but themselves. And their performance is in stark contrast to genuine social democrats/socialists who have outperformed them.
In a way I want them to keep going. They’ll purge themselves at this rate. | |
| |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 15:43 - May 9 with 834 views | jeera |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 15:11 - May 9 by Leaky |
Sorry down voted you by mistake completely agree with you . However you p1ssing in the wind argueing with this lot. |
Have you ever noticed how some of 'this lot' lay out their reasoning, backing their views with actual facts and relevant points.
They may not always agree with each other but at least they show their workings.
What does it tell you that you agree with some idiot who pops up from nowhere here and there offering nothing other than to take the odd daft pot-shot? [Post edited 9 May 2021 15:43]
|  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
