| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? 19:31 - May 7 with 5101 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
Not been on here much (actually been working) so apologies if someone's said it already... but Labour have been destroyed in these local elections... even with all Boris's feck ups the public still trust the Tories over Kier's Labour.
He's done no better, or perhaps worse, than Corbyn would've done.
Maybe it's because Kier's perceived as a bit of a toff like the Tory lot. Or doesn't have any policies. He's been showing up Tory mismanagement for me, but it's obviously not cutting through to the public.
Labour should get Jess Philips in. Someone who would appeal to the north, and everyone, frankly. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:32 - May 7 with 2046 views | J2BLUE |
He probably deserves another year or so and the chance to change. Even if he doesn't change why bring someone else in now? Keep them out of the firing line. |  |
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:33 - May 7 with 2046 views | WD19 |
Keep up. Apparently it is Jeremy Corbyns fault. ‘Long Corbyn’ they are calling it. |  | | |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:38 - May 7 with 2022 views | gtsb1966 |
He has no passion. I'm a floating voter but predominantly have voted for labour. If you can't appeal to the people of Hartlepool you're really in the wrong job. He should definitely resign. Nothing will change with him as leader. The public have made their minds up about him. |  | | |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:42 - May 7 with 1997 views | Trequartista |
I don't see anyone in the parliamentary Labour party who is a leader who can win back the working class votes. I thought Lisa Nandy spoke well around the time of the leadership campaign but have been less impressed since. Their only hope is to get Andy Burnham back into parliament i would have thought. |  |
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:46 - May 7 with 1964 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:38 - May 7 by gtsb1966 |
He has no passion. I'm a floating voter but predominantly have voted for labour. If you can't appeal to the people of Hartlepool you're really in the wrong job. He should definitely resign. Nothing will change with him as leader. The public have made their minds up about him. |
He struggles with image doesn't he. That and simple key messaging. Unfortunately both matter.
Meanwhile the Lib Dems seem to be completely dying. I've only seen the Welsh results so far, but they're getting a right kicking. David Lloyd George will be turning in his grave.
PS. Labour holding ground easily in Wales so far, but I guess that doesn't reflect on Starmer. Wales looks like it's going to be pretty much the same as last time (and ever). Leanne Wood the only casualty so far with her seat going Tory, bu it's the only swing (someone predicted that on here the other day). [Post edited 7 May 2021 19:54]
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:56 - May 7 with 1915 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:32 - May 7 by J2BLUE |
He probably deserves another year or so and the chance to change. Even if he doesn't change why bring someone else in now? Keep them out of the firing line. |
Yeah I see your point. But they probably need time to recover as well... so get in a more 'Labour' person, get some policies down, and start building an identity for the future. Hartlepool - 56 years Labour... swung to the Tories with a 7000 majority. If Labour was an animal you'd have it put down out of kindness. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:57 - May 7 with 1906 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:38 - May 7 by gtsb1966 |
He has no passion. I'm a floating voter but predominantly have voted for labour. If you can't appeal to the people of Hartlepool you're really in the wrong job. He should definitely resign. Nothing will change with him as leader. The public have made their minds up about him. |
I'm kinda in the same camp as you. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:58 - May 7 with 1902 views | J2BLUE |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:56 - May 7 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Yeah I see your point. But they probably need time to recover as well... so get in a more 'Labour' person, get some policies down, and start building an identity for the future. Hartlepool - 56 years Labour... swung to the Tories with a 7000 majority. If Labour was an animal you'd have it put down out of kindness. |
What I don't get about Labour is why it is so split. Both sides seem to care more about controlling the party and demanding the other side fall in line which clearly isn't going to happen. They need to split. If each side is so confident in their beliefs they should split and give the voters the option. | |
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 20:00 - May 7 with 1895 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:42 - May 7 by Trequartista |
I don't see anyone in the parliamentary Labour party who is a leader who can win back the working class votes. I thought Lisa Nandy spoke well around the time of the leadership campaign but have been less impressed since. Their only hope is to get Andy Burnham back into parliament i would have thought. |
I like Andy Burnham as well. What's wrong with Jess? They're both hard-nosed, take-no-sheet northerners. Both likeable... and both offer a difference to Tory toff before they even get into policies. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 20:02 - May 7 with 1895 views | DanTheMan |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:58 - May 7 by J2BLUE |
What I don't get about Labour is why it is so split. Both sides seem to care more about controlling the party and demanding the other side fall in line which clearly isn't going to happen. They need to split. If each side is so confident in their beliefs they should split and give the voters the option. |
Not just labour, just generally an issue with left wing people.
Seem to care more about being the right sort of left wing, and less about getting crap done. |  |
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 20:09 - May 7 with 1853 views | gtsb1966 |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 20:02 - May 7 by DanTheMan |
Not just labour, just generally an issue with left wing people.
Seem to care more about being the right sort of left wing, and less about getting crap done. |
You'll probably upset a select few on here with that comment but you're spot on. | | | |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 20:15 - May 7 with 1834 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:58 - May 7 by J2BLUE |
What I don't get about Labour is why it is so split. Both sides seem to care more about controlling the party and demanding the other side fall in line which clearly isn't going to happen. They need to split. If each side is so confident in their beliefs they should split and give the voters the option. |
It's a bit odd, because the tories are far from a happy camp themselves but somehow manage to keep a lid on the internal infighting and still present a united front come election time. Labour don't seem able to do that.
I'm not a traditional Labour supporter, but unfortunately due to our voting system we need them to do well if we want to stop the mess that the Tories create. It's like going to the races and needing to back a horse that's got three legs, is blind and is only one fall from the knackers yard. You really, really want it to do well but know in your heart it hasn't got a chance. | |
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 20:28 - May 7 with 1798 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:58 - May 7 by J2BLUE |
What I don't get about Labour is why it is so split. Both sides seem to care more about controlling the party and demanding the other side fall in line which clearly isn't going to happen. They need to split. If each side is so confident in their beliefs they should split and give the voters the option. |
I guess both think they're not strong enough on their own. They naively want the other side to fall in line. I personally like the more left side - I like its ideas and it's more of a difference to what we have. But the wider public didn't like that, so it isn't going to win.
But yeah I agree; if you're gonna split, split properly.
I think most of this country is selfish and they're either Tories or aspire to be Tories. Maybe me and the missus will move to somewhere more progressive like Denmark. I genuinely hate the UK general public. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 20:33 - May 7 with 1783 views | J2BLUE |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 20:28 - May 7 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I guess both think they're not strong enough on their own. They naively want the other side to fall in line. I personally like the more left side - I like its ideas and it's more of a difference to what we have. But the wider public didn't like that, so it isn't going to win.
But yeah I agree; if you're gonna split, split properly.
I think most of this country is selfish and they're either Tories or aspire to be Tories. Maybe me and the missus will move to somewhere more progressive like Denmark. I genuinely hate the UK general public. |
This point never goes down very well on here but for everyone like you who wants a more progressive society I believe there's someone who doesn't. That might sound odd and i'm not suggesting they are bigots. I just think this 'progress' goes faster and faster by the year and some people want to push back. | |
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 20:34 - May 7 with 1780 views | Darth_Koont |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:46 - May 7 by Swansea_Blue |
He struggles with image doesn't he. That and simple key messaging. Unfortunately both matter.
Meanwhile the Lib Dems seem to be completely dying. I've only seen the Welsh results so far, but they're getting a right kicking. David Lloyd George will be turning in his grave.
PS. Labour holding ground easily in Wales so far, but I guess that doesn't reflect on Starmer. Wales looks like it's going to be pretty much the same as last time (and ever). Leanne Wood the only casualty so far with her seat going Tory, bu it's the only swing (someone predicted that on here the other day). [Post edited 7 May 2021 19:54]
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By the way, I really like your idea of re-inventing the left around the Greens.
A. Climate change is the elephant in the room. And if we can’t handle something as serious as that then we’re probably not doing much forward-thinking anywhere else.
B. It’s inherently a move away from the status quo and same old, same old that has hollowed out politics in England over the past 20 years.
C. It’s about looking after children and future generations. Our political discussions have been focused on the middle-aged (not the elderly) and their interests. But that’s really never what a country needs. In the same way that companies that focus exclusively on their big sellers end up going backwards. And FWIW I’ll never understand why a country that’s good for its young won’t be good for everyone else. That’s the success of the Nordic countries. |  |
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 20:34 - May 7 with 1786 views | solomon |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:33 - May 7 by WD19 |
Keep up. Apparently it is Jeremy Corbyns fault. ‘Long Corbyn’ they are calling it. |
Last week it was wallpaper, this week it looks like curtains. |  | | |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 20:49 - May 7 with 1738 views | Darth_Koont |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 20:33 - May 7 by J2BLUE |
This point never goes down very well on here but for everyone like you who wants a more progressive society I believe there's someone who doesn't. That might sound odd and i'm not suggesting they are bigots. I just think this 'progress' goes faster and faster by the year and some people want to push back. |
No, you’re absolutely right.
But progress (and moving left) is inevitable: that’s just history, certainly since the Enlightenment and we realised that we are the ones who make our world not God.
The difficulty now is that progress, and the demand for it, is far quicker. That will make people more reactionary. But, just like similar people 20, 50 or 100 years ago, they’re just obstacles to their own happiness and the happiness of others. There are plenty of examples around the world of happier, more developed and fairer societies so there’s really no excuse.
What is deeply depressing is that we can’t even have this conversation publicly. Because we’vee got politicians and a media (2-3,000 people perhaps?) who are more than comfortable with where we are and where they fit in. | |
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 20:53 - May 7 with 1716 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 20:34 - May 7 by Darth_Koont |
By the way, I really like your idea of re-inventing the left around the Greens.
A. Climate change is the elephant in the room. And if we can’t handle something as serious as that then we’re probably not doing much forward-thinking anywhere else.
B. It’s inherently a move away from the status quo and same old, same old that has hollowed out politics in England over the past 20 years.
C. It’s about looking after children and future generations. Our political discussions have been focused on the middle-aged (not the elderly) and their interests. But that’s really never what a country needs. In the same way that companies that focus exclusively on their big sellers end up going backwards. And FWIW I’ll never understand why a country that’s good for its young won’t be good for everyone else. That’s the success of the Nordic countries. |
I suggested re grouping the left around the greens to you a year ago. You poo pooed the idea. |  |
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 21:01 - May 7 with 1692 views | vapour_trail |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:38 - May 7 by gtsb1966 |
He has no passion. I'm a floating voter but predominantly have voted for labour. If you can't appeal to the people of Hartlepool you're really in the wrong job. He should definitely resign. Nothing will change with him as leader. The public have made their minds up about him. |
Hartlepool people did hang the monkey spy.
Just saying. |  |
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 21:02 - May 7 with 1686 views | Herbivore |
Not sure it's a resigning matter, it's one by election and some local council elections. That said, it's a terrible set of results and he and Labour need to have a real think about how they can start turning this around.
I honestly think we're screwed though. The Tories have managed to totally screw the country for over a decade, they created the clusterf**k of Brexit that has damaged us irreparably in so many ways, their current leader can't move his lips without lying and will sacrifice literally anything for his own gain, and yet the Tories go from strength to strength.
How do you even begin to tackle winning over a public that is in the thrall of this corrupt bunch of charlatans? They've somehow created a sh!t storm and walked out of it with their white linen suit still looking pristine. They're untouchable. I think anyone wanting progressive politics needs to look to get out of the UK, or England at the very least. |  |
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 21:04 - May 7 with 1677 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 20:33 - May 7 by J2BLUE |
This point never goes down very well on here but for everyone like you who wants a more progressive society I believe there's someone who doesn't. That might sound odd and i'm not suggesting they are bigots. I just think this 'progress' goes faster and faster by the year and some people want to push back. |
I think there's more anti-progressives than every one like me. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 21:06 - May 7 with 1670 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 19:46 - May 7 by Swansea_Blue |
He struggles with image doesn't he. That and simple key messaging. Unfortunately both matter.
Meanwhile the Lib Dems seem to be completely dying. I've only seen the Welsh results so far, but they're getting a right kicking. David Lloyd George will be turning in his grave.
PS. Labour holding ground easily in Wales so far, but I guess that doesn't reflect on Starmer. Wales looks like it's going to be pretty much the same as last time (and ever). Leanne Wood the only casualty so far with her seat going Tory, bu it's the only swing (someone predicted that on here the other day). [Post edited 7 May 2021 19:54]
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I think Count Binface has had more press than the Lib Dems. They might as well pack up. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 21:13 - May 7 with 1643 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 21:02 - May 7 by Herbivore |
Not sure it's a resigning matter, it's one by election and some local council elections. That said, it's a terrible set of results and he and Labour need to have a real think about how they can start turning this around.
I honestly think we're screwed though. The Tories have managed to totally screw the country for over a decade, they created the clusterf**k of Brexit that has damaged us irreparably in so many ways, their current leader can't move his lips without lying and will sacrifice literally anything for his own gain, and yet the Tories go from strength to strength.
How do you even begin to tackle winning over a public that is in the thrall of this corrupt bunch of charlatans? They've somehow created a sh!t storm and walked out of it with their white linen suit still looking pristine. They're untouchable. I think anyone wanting progressive politics needs to look to get out of the UK, or England at the very least. |
I see the Tories increased their majority in your constituency Herbie. God does have a sense of humour. | |
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 21:15 - May 7 with 1638 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 21:02 - May 7 by Herbivore |
Not sure it's a resigning matter, it's one by election and some local council elections. That said, it's a terrible set of results and he and Labour need to have a real think about how they can start turning this around.
I honestly think we're screwed though. The Tories have managed to totally screw the country for over a decade, they created the clusterf**k of Brexit that has damaged us irreparably in so many ways, their current leader can't move his lips without lying and will sacrifice literally anything for his own gain, and yet the Tories go from strength to strength.
How do you even begin to tackle winning over a public that is in the thrall of this corrupt bunch of charlatans? They've somehow created a sh!t storm and walked out of it with their white linen suit still looking pristine. They're untouchable. I think anyone wanting progressive politics needs to look to get out of the UK, or England at the very least. |
"it's one by election and some local council elections" is massively underselling this catastrophic, nationwide, defeat.
I agree with the rest. We are bereft. Lost. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 21:15 - May 7 with 1629 views | Darth_Koont |
| Well I guess Kier Starmer should resign? on 20:53 - May 7 by GlasgowBlue |
I suggested re grouping the left around the greens to you a year ago. You poo pooed the idea. |
That’s probably right. Although Corbyn’s progressive policies were of course completely in line with the Greens so no need then.
Starmer going back on his pledges to continue that progressive platform changes everything. His anti-progressive Labour is part of the problem – politically, socially, economically and environmentally. | |
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