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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... 08:36 - May 8 with 2245 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

.....and not one mention of their discovery of the money tree!!

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 08:40 - May 8 with 1304 viewsStokieBlue

Context?

There's a pandemic on, you might have noticed.

SB

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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 08:44 - May 8 with 1295 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 08:40 - May 8 by StokieBlue

Context?

There's a pandemic on, you might have noticed.

SB


...and lots of people got paid to do nothing so voted for the banker.
So your point is?

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:07 - May 8 with 1266 viewsStokieBlue

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 08:44 - May 8 by BanksterDebtSlave

...and lots of people got paid to do nothing so voted for the banker.
So your point is?


My point is that you have no point.

Any government would have had to borrow in the same way and they have done in almost every country.

So if your actual point is that they voted for the free money due to the pandemic why the constant criticism of Starmer? If that's your reasoning there is nothing he could have done about it...

Perhaps one to think about.

SB

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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:09 - May 8 with 1257 viewschicoazul

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 08:40 - May 8 by StokieBlue

Context?

There's a pandemic on, you might have noticed.

SB


Yes, the evil right wing Tories and their policy of throwing endless amounts of money at people infrastructure and the economy during and after the pandemic.

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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:19 - May 8 with 1232 viewsbournemouthblue

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 08:44 - May 8 by BanksterDebtSlave

...and lots of people got paid to do nothing so voted for the banker.
So your point is?


The early signs coming out of the results is that incumbent administrations have done quite well

It would have been interesting to see the results in 2020 where more or less week after week, the government were totally shambolic

They seem to have got credit for the vaccine roll out whether or not, they have had much hand in it's actual success

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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:23 - May 8 with 1210 viewsDarth_Koont

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 08:40 - May 8 by StokieBlue

Context?

There's a pandemic on, you might have noticed.

SB


Sure. But it’s still a valid point that if things need doing then there’s money for that. That’s the way countries actually work and not the austerity household economy of the established narrative.

Austerity caused as much pain (probably more over time) and as many deaths as Covid. Let’s not go back to such limited and dangerous thinking.
[Post edited 8 May 2021 9:31]

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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:26 - May 8 with 1191 viewsBarneycurley

The salty money tree

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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:33 - May 8 with 1172 viewsJ2BLUE

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:23 - May 8 by Darth_Koont

Sure. But it’s still a valid point that if things need doing then there’s money for that. That’s the way countries actually work and not the austerity household economy of the established narrative.

Austerity caused as much pain (probably more over time) and as many deaths as Covid. Let’s not go back to such limited and dangerous thinking.
[Post edited 8 May 2021 9:31]


Isn't this a bit like criticising a household for saying they have no money and then sticking the unexpected car repair bill which allows them to do their job on their credit card a week later?

Truly impaired.
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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:37 - May 8 with 1151 viewsStokieBlue

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:23 - May 8 by Darth_Koont

Sure. But it’s still a valid point that if things need doing then there’s money for that. That’s the way countries actually work and not the austerity household economy of the established narrative.

Austerity caused as much pain (probably more over time) and as many deaths as Covid. Let’s not go back to such limited and dangerous thinking.
[Post edited 8 May 2021 9:31]


I'm not sure it's the same thing at all. There was literally no choice but to provide things like furlough and the cost is massive.

Austerity is clearly wrong and hopefully that won't happen again. That was a choice though by the voters (and obviously a bad one) whereas the requirements of the pandemic are not optional.

It seems to be that a lot of context it being totally ignore with regards to these election results and blame being attributed when there was very little that could be done given factors like the vaccine rollout and the ongoing Brexit nonsense. No government for 100 years has had to deal with a pandemic, there was always likely to be a favourable bounce when things were looking better due to the stress everyone has faced in the previous year.

SB
[Post edited 8 May 2021 9:39]

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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:40 - May 8 with 1128 viewsDubtractor

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:09 - May 8 by chicoazul

Yes, the evil right wing Tories and their policy of throwing endless amounts of money at people infrastructure and the economy during and after the pandemic.


I'm a big lefty as you're probably aware Chico, but a small part of me is intrigued to see how this government pans out, as they have made loads of promises of investment in this country, a genuine end to austerity and so on. As someone working in local government this is something for which I have seen very real impacts.

Obviously Covid has thrown a MASSIVE spanner in the works, and may mean lots of plans being thrown in the bin, austerity on steroids etc, but I would have liked to see how it actually panned out.

Doesn't change the half point Bankster was making about the money tree. And to be clear, suggestions of investment in the country aside, I have been utterly appalled by the populism/culture war bullsh1t that this government has overseen.

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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:41 - May 8 with 1126 viewsDarth_Koont

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:33 - May 8 by J2BLUE

Isn't this a bit like criticising a household for saying they have no money and then sticking the unexpected car repair bill which allows them to do their job on their credit card a week later?


No. Throughout the last decade or more we have been borrowing hundreds of billions when needed but that’s to prop up the system. While using the narrative that we can’t spend above our means to help people in the most desperate situations.

Covid has hopefully broken that spell and that (self-) deception for good.

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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:45 - May 8 with 1102 viewsbluelagos

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:37 - May 8 by StokieBlue

I'm not sure it's the same thing at all. There was literally no choice but to provide things like furlough and the cost is massive.

Austerity is clearly wrong and hopefully that won't happen again. That was a choice though by the voters (and obviously a bad one) whereas the requirements of the pandemic are not optional.

It seems to be that a lot of context it being totally ignore with regards to these election results and blame being attributed when there was very little that could be done given factors like the vaccine rollout and the ongoing Brexit nonsense. No government for 100 years has had to deal with a pandemic, there was always likely to be a favourable bounce when things were looking better due to the stress everyone has faced in the previous year.

SB
[Post edited 8 May 2021 9:39]


How was austerity a choice of the voters? The tories went into coalition with a party that didn't have austerity as part of it's manifesto. It was the choice of a bunch of opportunistic snakes who backed it to get into government.

Don't think the majority of voters ever voted for it at all.
[Post edited 8 May 2021 10:14]

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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:48 - May 8 with 1091 viewsDubtractor

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:45 - May 8 by bluelagos

How was austerity a choice of the voters? The tories went into coalition with a party that didn't have austerity as part of it's manifesto. It was the choice of a bunch of opportunistic snakes who backed it to get into government.

Don't think the majority of voters ever voted for it at all.
[Post edited 8 May 2021 10:14]


Worth noting that the austerity government got voted back in, with a majority, with loads more austerity to follow!

People DID vote for austerity.

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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:53 - May 8 with 1075 viewsStokieBlue

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:45 - May 8 by bluelagos

How was austerity a choice of the voters? The tories went into coalition with a party that didn't have austerity as part of it's manifesto. It was the choice of a bunch of opportunistic snakes who backed it to get into government.

Don't think the majority of voters ever voted for it at all.
[Post edited 8 May 2021 10:14]


The same government essentially got voted back into power, the people had a choice to get rid of them at that point and they didn't.

It's depressing that something like austerity had such little effect on voting patterns.

This is all divergent though, I still don't think the magic money tree trope is particularly relevant to a pandemic response, especially when the spending has been across all countries and definitely wouldn't have happened anywhere without a pandemic.

SB

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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:54 - May 8 with 1068 viewsDarth_Koont

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:37 - May 8 by StokieBlue

I'm not sure it's the same thing at all. There was literally no choice but to provide things like furlough and the cost is massive.

Austerity is clearly wrong and hopefully that won't happen again. That was a choice though by the voters (and obviously a bad one) whereas the requirements of the pandemic are not optional.

It seems to be that a lot of context it being totally ignore with regards to these election results and blame being attributed when there was very little that could be done given factors like the vaccine rollout and the ongoing Brexit nonsense. No government for 100 years has had to deal with a pandemic, there was always likely to be a favourable bounce when things were looking better due to the stress everyone has faced in the previous year.

SB
[Post edited 8 May 2021 9:39]


That’s fair enough re: interpreting the election results. My comment is based on the last decade or more.

If I was going to make a point about how the new-found money tree affected the results in certain areas it would be about the central investment going into Conservative-controlled constituencies, councils and mayorships.

Pork-barrel politics certainly, but after being ignored by Labour and Conservative governments alike it adds to the impression that Boris is an agent for change and that Conservatives get things done.

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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:54 - May 8 with 1068 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:07 - May 8 by StokieBlue

My point is that you have no point.

Any government would have had to borrow in the same way and they have done in almost every country.

So if your actual point is that they voted for the free money due to the pandemic why the constant criticism of Starmer? If that's your reasoning there is nothing he could have done about it...

Perhaps one to think about.

SB


I seem to trigger some sort of irrationality in you Spock!
[Post edited 8 May 2021 10:05]

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:55 - May 8 with 1064 viewsbluelagos

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:48 - May 8 by Dubtractor

Worth noting that the austerity government got voted back in, with a majority, with loads more austerity to follow!

People DID vote for austerity.


Did they receive more than 50% of the vote?

They got elected. But not with majority support. So I don't accept the majority of voters voted for austerity. They didn't. Our sh1t system delivered us as an austerity supporting party elected on a minority vote.

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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:57 - May 8 with 1051 viewsbluelagos

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:53 - May 8 by StokieBlue

The same government essentially got voted back into power, the people had a choice to get rid of them at that point and they didn't.

It's depressing that something like austerity had such little effect on voting patterns.

This is all divergent though, I still don't think the magic money tree trope is particularly relevant to a pandemic response, especially when the spending has been across all countries and definitely wouldn't have happened anywhere without a pandemic.

SB


See reply to Dubbers. They got back in on a minority vote.

Our system is the problem. It consistently delivers us governments that the majority of people don't want. And they even claim they have the support of the people, when they clearly don't.
[Post edited 8 May 2021 9:59]

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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:59 - May 8 with 1028 viewsStokieBlue

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:54 - May 8 by BanksterDebtSlave

I seem to trigger some sort of irrationality in you Spock!
[Post edited 8 May 2021 10:05]


The only irrational post is your opening one which totally ignores the context of the entire last year and the situation globally which is exactly the same in every western country.

Everything else is entirely rational.



SB

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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 10:00 - May 8 with 1018 viewsStokieBlue

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:57 - May 8 by bluelagos

See reply to Dubbers. They got back in on a minority vote.

Our system is the problem. It consistently delivers us governments that the majority of people don't want. And they even claim they have the support of the people, when they clearly don't.
[Post edited 8 May 2021 9:59]


No arguments that the system is the problem but a majority isn't required to govern in the UK. By your criteria I don't think we've had a government with a mandate like describe in the last 50 years.

Given that, one has to go with the next best thing which is the government in power has managed to get enough support to have a mandate for what they are doing.

This is all pretty divergent from the main point though which I still think lacks any context.

SB
[Post edited 8 May 2021 10:01]

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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 10:01 - May 8 with 1014 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:07 - May 8 by StokieBlue

My point is that you have no point.

Any government would have had to borrow in the same way and they have done in almost every country.

So if your actual point is that they voted for the free money due to the pandemic why the constant criticism of Starmer? If that's your reasoning there is nothing he could have done about it...

Perhaps one to think about.

SB


"So if your actual point is that they voted for the free money due to the pandemic why the constant criticism of Starmer? If that's your reasoning there is nothing he could have done about it..."

Is it ok to point out both of these things?

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 10:02 - May 8 with 1010 viewsNthsuffolkblue

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:55 - May 8 by bluelagos

Did they receive more than 50% of the vote?

They got elected. But not with majority support. So I don't accept the majority of voters voted for austerity. They didn't. Our sh1t system delivered us as an austerity supporting party elected on a minority vote.


And how much were they voting for austerity when the slogan was "get Brexit done"?

People vote for many different reasons.

The point in the OP, I believe, is that austerity is an ideology that has been show to be flawed - it has not improved the economic position or it would have only needed to be a temporary thing.

Boris has openly been against it in principle. Which would also suggest that is not the reason his party has been voted in either.

As Mhairi Black said in her maiden speech to parliament (I think it was), "no government ever said it didn't have enough money to go to war".

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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 10:02 - May 8 with 1010 viewsStokieBlue

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 10:01 - May 8 by BanksterDebtSlave

"So if your actual point is that they voted for the free money due to the pandemic why the constant criticism of Starmer? If that's your reasoning there is nothing he could have done about it..."

Is it ok to point out both of these things?


Not really because if the first one is true then the second one is impossible to counter and thus constant criticism and sniping like you've been doing isn't really applicable.

SB

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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 10:09 - May 8 with 993 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 09:59 - May 8 by StokieBlue

The only irrational post is your opening one which totally ignores the context of the entire last year and the situation globally which is exactly the same in every western country.

Everything else is entirely rational.



SB


My op is a statement of fact....as usual it is your subjective interpretation that betrays you as not being the perfect scientific machine to which you aspire!

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
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All this talk of how did the Cons do so well.... on 10:11 - May 8 with 979 viewslowhouseblue

economically, there is just a chance that the tories are about to benefit form something much more magical than the money tree - growth. led by the US and covid spending we may be about to finally escape 2008. we may have a period lasting pretty much until the end of the decade before inflation and interest rates really rise. if the success of the tories now is depressing wait and see what happens to them in period of growth and perceived prosperity.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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