| Voter ID 08:48 - May 11 with 9129 views | Guthrum |
Not seen this discussed on here. The Government will be bringing in legislation requiring photo ID in order to vote in person. That's all well and good for those with a driving licence and/or a passport.
But there needs to be a cheap and easily accessible scheme for those who do not have either. Many of such people will be the poor or the elderly (who may have not renewed the ones they had). Those groups are also the least internet accessible. Otherwise you are effectively dienfranchising those people or, at the very least, putting a price upon the ability to vote.
Such a scheme of voting photo ID would have to be very affordable, even for those on benefits (subsidised, even), easy to access (both on- and offline) and secure (something these things have not always been).
All this in the name of eradicating something which is an infinitesimally small problem (one conviction for impersonatin at a polling station in the 2017 election: https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/sites/default/files/pdf_file/Fraud-allega ). Presumably because they think introducing a national ID card system would create too much of a row (again). |  |
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| Voter ID on 08:51 - May 11 with 3191 views | Herbivore |
I don't see how in good conscience this can be introduced without also introducing some form of free national ID card that people can apply for. You are essentially disenfranchising large numbers of the electorate by forcing them to produce a form of ID they don't have, don't need, and can't afford in order to vote. And it's introducing a solution to a problem so miniscule that it doesn't really need solving. |  |
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| Voter ID on 08:52 - May 11 with 3194 views | itfcjoe |
Just classic voter suppression tactics by a Conservative Government |  |
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| Voter ID on 08:54 - May 11 with 3189 views | Steve_M |
It's a big concern that the Tories seem to be taking inspiration from the worst impulses of the Republicans in the US. As you say, electoral fraud is vanishingly rare in this country so the only purpose is voter suppression:
Although, if the changing electoral demographics in places like Hartlepool now favour the Tories which voters are they going to disenfranchise? Also I saw some figures yesterday that it is pensioners who are disproportionately least likely to have a passport. |  |
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| Voter ID on 09:10 - May 11 with 3127 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Voter ID on 08:51 - May 11 by Herbivore |
I don't see how in good conscience this can be introduced without also introducing some form of free national ID card that people can apply for. You are essentially disenfranchising large numbers of the electorate by forcing them to produce a form of ID they don't have, don't need, and can't afford in order to vote. And it's introducing a solution to a problem so miniscule that it doesn't really need solving. |
Even if voluntary, free ID is introduced, I'd imagine a relatively large chunk of people won't get it because either they don't understand that they have to, don't understand the process, or don't have time to do it. |  | | |
| Voter ID on 09:15 - May 11 with 3112 views | HARRY10 |
When it was suggested before. we had a man of honesty and integrity to denounce the very thought
"Back in 2004, Johnson said he had spent the past few years travelling up and down the country complaining about the proposals.
He added that he would “physically eat” his ID card if he was ever forced to produce it.
And at another point, reportedly also in 2004, he described ID cards as “a recipe for tyranny and oppression.”
Which rather adds to the knowledge that Johnson is little more than a vacuous gobs hite who will say anything to further his personal cause.
Customs forms to NI to be thrown in bin, lying down in front of a bulldozer, dying (his hair) in a ditch, oven ready deal....much as the social care plan he announced was already in place by him in July 2019
"“And so I am announcing on the steps of Downing Street that we will fix the crisis in social care once and for all with a clear plan we have prepared to give every older person the dignity and security they deserve.”
It was a lie as there was, and still is, not any care plan |  | | |
| Voter ID on 09:19 - May 11 with 3094 views | footers |
Although it's clearly Tory gerrymandering in response to a non-existent problem, but I wonder if it may come back to bite them if quite a large number of older voters who either don't drive or have a passport don't have any other form of ID and can't be arsed to get one. |  |
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| Voter ID on 09:20 - May 11 with 3092 views | Guthrum |
| Voter ID on 09:19 - May 11 by footers |
Although it's clearly Tory gerrymandering in response to a non-existent problem, but I wonder if it may come back to bite them if quite a large number of older voters who either don't drive or have a passport don't have any other form of ID and can't be arsed to get one. |
They'll all postal vote, which gets around the problem. | |
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| Voter ID on 09:33 - May 11 with 3050 views | SouperJim |
It's almost as though the tories know that the people who vote for them typically have photo id, where as the people who don't vote for them, not so much. |  |
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| Voter ID on 09:37 - May 11 with 3026 views | giant_stow |
Just to add to the fun, I read the Tories are looking to abolish fixed term parliments. |  |
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| Voter ID on 09:44 - May 11 with 3006 views | TieDyedIn95 |
You can apply for both a provisional driving license and a passport relatively cheaply to be honest. Making assumptions that Labour voters are either too thick or poor to do so is not a good look for anyone. If they have issues with literacy, Citizens Advice will even do it for them. No ones locked out. |  |
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| Voter ID on 09:45 - May 11 with 3002 views | linhdi |
Back in the good old days (pre-mid-2016), it was always argued that the lack of compulsory ID in the UK made it impossible for us to apply the many otherwise available EU restrictions on free movement... | | | |
| Voter ID on 09:47 - May 11 with 2999 views | chicoazul |
Yet another of our ancient freedoms is hastened to the exit door without a whimper from the supine English public. |  |
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| Voter ID on 09:50 - May 11 with 2992 views | Darth_Koont |
As you say, it’s a solution to an essentially non-existent problem that will cement a Tory advantage.
But also unnecessarily raises the spectre of vote tampering and cheating that erode a democratic system (and our belief in it) that is already hanging by a thread. |  |
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| Voter ID on 09:50 - May 11 with 2994 views | Guthrum |
| Voter ID on 09:44 - May 11 by TieDyedIn95 |
You can apply for both a provisional driving license and a passport relatively cheaply to be honest. Making assumptions that Labour voters are either too thick or poor to do so is not a good look for anyone. If they have issues with literacy, Citizens Advice will even do it for them. No ones locked out. |
Does £75 (cost of a passport) count as cheap nowadays? Even £34 (provisional driving licence) is an ask for a lot of people on benefits or basic pension. | |
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| Voter ID on 09:54 - May 11 with 2978 views | SaleAway |
| Voter ID on 09:44 - May 11 by TieDyedIn95 |
You can apply for both a provisional driving license and a passport relatively cheaply to be honest. Making assumptions that Labour voters are either too thick or poor to do so is not a good look for anyone. If they have issues with literacy, Citizens Advice will even do it for them. No ones locked out. |
Do you think the ~2 million people using foodbanks would rather spend £75 quid on a passport, or on food for their families? | |
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| Voter ID on 09:55 - May 11 with 2971 views | HARRY10 |
| Voter ID on 09:44 - May 11 by TieDyedIn95 |
You can apply for both a provisional driving license and a passport relatively cheaply to be honest. Making assumptions that Labour voters are either too thick or poor to do so is not a good look for anyone. If they have issues with literacy, Citizens Advice will even do it for them. No ones locked out. |
you can be issued with literacy, well I never
no one has made any assumptions of “that Labour voters are either too thick or poor to do so” - what has been pointed out is that many who live in the inner cities have no need of a car and so no need of a driving license, but have a higher level of voting Labour
what next, the vote is only given to those who own property or women over the age of 30 ?
meanwhile another bit of Tory gerrymandering seems to have slipped by unnoticed
"Ministers are pressing ahead with changes to electoral law that could make it easier for Conservatives to win future mayoral elections, as Labour claimed 11 of the 13 posts being contested across England."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/09/government-to-change-english-vo | | | |
| Voter ID on 09:57 - May 11 with 2965 views | Cotty |
It's indefensible voter suppression, pure and simple. There is no evidence of anything more than negligible amounts of voter fraud, this is all about cementing the power of those who currently hold it. How did we deserve this government??! |  | | |
| Voter ID on 10:07 - May 11 with 2927 views | itfcjoe |
| Voter ID on 09:19 - May 11 by footers |
Although it's clearly Tory gerrymandering in response to a non-existent problem, but I wonder if it may come back to bite them if quite a large number of older voters who either don't drive or have a passport don't have any other form of ID and can't be arsed to get one. |
They'll allow pension books or something to be used - it will be deliberately aimed at the young, and the poor | |
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| Voter ID on 10:11 - May 11 with 2915 views | wkj |
| Voter ID on 09:44 - May 11 by TieDyedIn95 |
You can apply for both a provisional driving license and a passport relatively cheaply to be honest. Making assumptions that Labour voters are either too thick or poor to do so is not a good look for anyone. If they have issues with literacy, Citizens Advice will even do it for them. No ones locked out. |
You used the world 'relatively' here - possibly lightly. This is a very strong word in this scenario.
£75 is relatively cheap if you can afford it, and relatively expensive if you can not. £75 becomes £150 for partnerships - and becomes almost impossible for a low income family to afford their right to vote.
Let's go the rout of the provisional license - £34 online, £43 by post. So, in a partnership that is £68 or £86. This is still a crippling amount of money for many many families, to afford something they have a right to do.
No one may be locked out, but many will be priced out. [Post edited 11 May 2021 10:14]
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| Voter ID on 10:15 - May 11 with 2906 views | footers |
| Voter ID on 10:11 - May 11 by wkj |
You used the world 'relatively' here - possibly lightly. This is a very strong word in this scenario.
£75 is relatively cheap if you can afford it, and relatively expensive if you can not. £75 becomes £150 for partnerships - and becomes almost impossible for a low income family to afford their right to vote.
Let's go the rout of the provisional license - £34 online, £43 by post. So, in a partnership that is £68 or £86. This is still a crippling amount of money for many many families, to afford something they have a right to do.
No one may be locked out, but many will be priced out. [Post edited 11 May 2021 10:14]
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It's a week's worth of dole money. That could buy a good couple of weeks' food shopping for a family who really need it. So I agree that saying people aren't locked out is well wide of the mark here. | |
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| Voter ID on 10:15 - May 11 with 2906 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Voter ID on 08:52 - May 11 by itfcjoe |
Just classic voter suppression tactics by a Conservative Government |
More putting obstacles in people’s way. This can be overcome by Labour, or it would have been a generation ago when Labour knew who their supporters were and concentrated on getting their vote out.
Grassroots support willing to donate the time needed to knock on doors in their neighborhood and make a difference. It is how it worked in 60’s/70’s. |  |
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| Voter ID on 10:18 - May 11 with 2895 views | wkj |
| Voter ID on 10:15 - May 11 by footers |
It's a week's worth of dole money. That could buy a good couple of weeks' food shopping for a family who really need it. So I agree that saying people aren't locked out is well wide of the mark here. |
Voting security in the UK is such a non-issue too - that is the infuriating part of all of this. Out of all the things we need to be focussing on right now, voting isn't one of them.
That said, the age of politics now is not about accountability, it is about personality... cult of personality.
So these idiots will continue getting free passes until the next evolution political decorum is established. | |
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| Voter ID on 10:19 - May 11 with 2884 views | Bluefish |
| Voter ID on 08:52 - May 11 by itfcjoe |
Just classic voter suppression tactics by a Conservative Government |
Is it really though? Is it really too much to expect someone to show ID for voting for the leaders of the country? The most important and open to corruption thing that we do in our lives.
We all happily show ID to buy alcohol (at times in our lives), go on holiday, collect a package, drive a car, open a bank account, register a kid for school, start a job etc etc
Seems just a lazy argument when it comes to voting |  |
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| Voter ID on 10:24 - May 11 with 2871 views | wkj |
| Voter ID on 10:19 - May 11 by Bluefish |
Is it really though? Is it really too much to expect someone to show ID for voting for the leaders of the country? The most important and open to corruption thing that we do in our lives.
We all happily show ID to buy alcohol (at times in our lives), go on holiday, collect a package, drive a car, open a bank account, register a kid for school, start a job etc etc
Seems just a lazy argument when it comes to voting |
No more lazy than BJ's proposal. An ‘illiberal solution for non-existent problem’ | |
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| Voter ID on 10:28 - May 11 with 2854 views | WeWereZombies |
| Voter ID on 10:19 - May 11 by Bluefish |
Is it really though? Is it really too much to expect someone to show ID for voting for the leaders of the country? The most important and open to corruption thing that we do in our lives.
We all happily show ID to buy alcohol (at times in our lives), go on holiday, collect a package, drive a car, open a bank account, register a kid for school, start a job etc etc
Seems just a lazy argument when it comes to voting |
So what about all the millions spent on voter registration? All the forms regularly sent out, the lists held at the polling station, as Guthrum has already mentioned - postal voting. A lot of the bureaucracy is already in place so do we need to add more?
There is a massive problem with voter suppression though, people with no fixed address and those unfortunate enough to have no address or place to live at all. Here are people who are genuinely disenfranchised and nothing is being done about it. Not by the Conservatives, not by Labour, not by the Scottish Nationalists, not by the Liberal Democrats. |  |
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