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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer 14:05 - May 16 with 4049 viewsDarth_Koont

As Labour slides into irrelevance and the Greens seem to be emerging as the third party in England & Wales, he’d be an utter fool not to build an alliance of some description. Let alone that the environment is the single most important challenge we face and where petty party allegiances and factional ambitions should go out the window.

So, of course, he won’t take it.


Pronouns: He/Him

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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:08 - May 16 with 2078 viewsHARRY10

irrelevance ?

getting a bit desperate, aren't we ?
[Post edited 16 May 2021 14:09]
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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:11 - May 16 with 2051 viewsDarth_Koont

Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:08 - May 16 by HARRY10

irrelevance ?

getting a bit desperate, aren't we ?
[Post edited 16 May 2021 14:09]


Who’s “we”?

You’re not going to do that thing again where you take me for a “rightie” are you? I’m attacking the empty centre from the left.

Pronouns: He/Him

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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:17 - May 16 with 2000 viewsBloomBlue

Sir Keir is ahead of you he is going to appear on Piers Moron, Life Stories to show people the human side of Sir Keir
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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:20 - May 16 with 1990 viewsDarth_Koont

Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:17 - May 16 by BloomBlue

Sir Keir is ahead of you he is going to appear on Piers Moron, Life Stories to show people the human side of Sir Keir


Not sure his personality is going to do much heavy lifting. If ever there was a politician in need of a platform and a vision then he’s it.

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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:21 - May 16 with 1987 viewsbournemouthblue

Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:08 - May 16 by HARRY10

irrelevance ?

getting a bit desperate, aren't we ?
[Post edited 16 May 2021 14:09]


I can't but help think the Beeb who are centre-right from a news perspective cover Labour a bit patronisingly and do seem to be a great aid for the Tory Party

That doesn't mean they don't have a point


Labour are in a bit of a mess, more so over Brexit than I expected the Tories to be in too, particularly as Europe has always been more of their issue


However, I don't think Labour have quite got to grips with the cult of celebrity we live in nowadays

Boris is a terrible politician and a terrible human being but Joe Public like him because he's a big character

Starmer will eviscerate Johnson at PM's questions but the general public don't care about that

I'm not sure what they do care about any more, based on recent election results

How the Tories have got away with 2020, simply because of a successful vaccine programme is beyond me, I must say but there you go

Labour can rebuild and can wipe these Tories out but they have to radically change their approach and what they offer

If they were tougher on policing, which Starmer naturally should be given his background and perhaps even Pro-Military. They might pick up a bit of a leverage with the 'patriots' who voted Brexit
[Post edited 16 May 2021 14:23]

Alcohol is the answer but I can't remember the question!
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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:22 - May 16 with 1969 viewsFtnfwest

Well look he’s ok at making Boris look silly in public, but in fairness Koont, I reckon you and I might manage that ourselves
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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:27 - May 16 with 1951 viewsDarth_Koont

Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:22 - May 16 by Ftnfwest

Well look he’s ok at making Boris look silly in public, but in fairness Koont, I reckon you and I might manage that ourselves


Indeed. I don’t think tapping in open goals in a dry, lawyerly fashion is quite the super-power some people think it is.

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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:29 - May 16 with 1942 viewsHARRY10

Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:11 - May 16 by Darth_Koont

Who’s “we”?

You’re not going to do that thing again where you take me for a “rightie” are you? I’m attacking the empty centre from the left.


Or putting out the line of 'it's all Labours fault' that the horny handed sons of toils are being forced to vote Tory'.

The obvious flaw in your thought is that all votes are static therefore a merging of Labour and the Greens would automatically deliver that sum total in any forthcoming election

Where in reality the likes of the Libdems, Greens, BNP, and UKIP are all too often little more than repositories of protest votes. Much as the 'mould breaking' SDP were to be.
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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:33 - May 16 with 1928 viewsDarth_Koont

Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:29 - May 16 by HARRY10

Or putting out the line of 'it's all Labours fault' that the horny handed sons of toils are being forced to vote Tory'.

The obvious flaw in your thought is that all votes are static therefore a merging of Labour and the Greens would automatically deliver that sum total in any forthcoming election

Where in reality the likes of the Libdems, Greens, BNP, and UKIP are all too often little more than repositories of protest votes. Much as the 'mould breaking' SDP were to be.


Eh?

A progressive and Green alliance would give Labour a platform it currently lacks. Not to mention being important in the real world.

Pronouns: He/Him

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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:41 - May 16 with 1895 viewsbluelagos

Why just the Greens/Lab?

Rainbow collalition? by bluelagos 8 May 2021 9:41
So a few thoughts over the results. Firstly, clearly terrible results for Labour in England. We can argue all day why, but one simple fact seems clear to me: The right is now unified as the Tory party (no Brexit party - reform did sfa) but the left is split between Lab / Lib / Greens and nationalists.

In total - I don't see a huge disparity - just that the electoral system rewards parties over 40% which Labour is nowhere near. Same voting split in a general election and the Tories are in 100+ majority territory.

So - is it time for a left of center collation? Divide up the seats and just put up one candidate in every seat at the election?


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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:44 - May 16 with 1881 viewsYorkshire_Townie

Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:21 - May 16 by bournemouthblue

I can't but help think the Beeb who are centre-right from a news perspective cover Labour a bit patronisingly and do seem to be a great aid for the Tory Party

That doesn't mean they don't have a point


Labour are in a bit of a mess, more so over Brexit than I expected the Tories to be in too, particularly as Europe has always been more of their issue


However, I don't think Labour have quite got to grips with the cult of celebrity we live in nowadays

Boris is a terrible politician and a terrible human being but Joe Public like him because he's a big character

Starmer will eviscerate Johnson at PM's questions but the general public don't care about that

I'm not sure what they do care about any more, based on recent election results

How the Tories have got away with 2020, simply because of a successful vaccine programme is beyond me, I must say but there you go

Labour can rebuild and can wipe these Tories out but they have to radically change their approach and what they offer

If they were tougher on policing, which Starmer naturally should be given his background and perhaps even Pro-Military. They might pick up a bit of a leverage with the 'patriots' who voted Brexit
[Post edited 16 May 2021 14:23]


Yep- I admit I predicted about 15 yrs ago that we'd never have another Conservative PM as I expected the party to fragment over europe, regardless of other issues (climate, wars, financial crashes etc). Expected them to break/split into hard right party & some sort of 'same as the liberals so may as well join them'.....Unfortunately I was v wrong.
I cannot fathom how people A- find Johnson entertaining & attractive as a politician &
B- seem blind to his & the party's faults - Universal Credit? Austerity? huge delays in lockdown action etc. The media have a hand in this of course - he's their chum & they seem to have it in for Labour as a concept. People seem unable to see or think for themselves. Which is v v worrying in a universal suffrage society...
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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:48 - May 16 with 1861 viewsYorkshire_Townie

Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:44 - May 16 by Yorkshire_Townie

Yep- I admit I predicted about 15 yrs ago that we'd never have another Conservative PM as I expected the party to fragment over europe, regardless of other issues (climate, wars, financial crashes etc). Expected them to break/split into hard right party & some sort of 'same as the liberals so may as well join them'.....Unfortunately I was v wrong.
I cannot fathom how people A- find Johnson entertaining & attractive as a politician &
B- seem blind to his & the party's faults - Universal Credit? Austerity? huge delays in lockdown action etc. The media have a hand in this of course - he's their chum & they seem to have it in for Labour as a concept. People seem unable to see or think for themselves. Which is v v worrying in a universal suffrage society...


Horribly does Starmer have to go down Tony Blair's route - cozy up to Murdoch & the Sun? My skin crawls at the prospect...
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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:49 - May 16 with 1856 viewsGlasgowBlue

Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:08 - May 16 by HARRY10

irrelevance ?

getting a bit desperate, aren't we ?
[Post edited 16 May 2021 14:09]


They're all the same these righties H.
[Post edited 16 May 2021 14:49]

Iron Lion Zion
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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:52 - May 16 with 1851 viewsDarth_Koont

Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:41 - May 16 by bluelagos

Why just the Greens/Lab?

Rainbow collalition? by bluelagos 8 May 2021 9:41
So a few thoughts over the results. Firstly, clearly terrible results for Labour in England. We can argue all day why, but one simple fact seems clear to me: The right is now unified as the Tory party (no Brexit party - reform did sfa) but the left is split between Lab / Lib / Greens and nationalists.

In total - I don't see a huge disparity - just that the electoral system rewards parties over 40% which Labour is nowhere near. Same voting split in a general election and the Tories are in 100+ majority territory.

So - is it time for a left of center collation? Divide up the seats and just put up one candidate in every seat at the election?



The more the merrier. And I think the SNP would be a parliamentary ally at least.

The key is to embrace a progressive Green platform though. One which actually invests in and helps restructure our economy and addresses issues like regional inequalities and our low productivity. So a bit more than recycling bins, fewer shopping bags and protests against whaling.

If the LibDems are up for that then great. I don’t think the current Labour lot are anyway. Where’s the power, influence and money in green industries? Or in addressing inequalities?

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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:57 - May 16 with 1831 viewsDarth_Koont

Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:48 - May 16 by Yorkshire_Townie

Horribly does Starmer have to go down Tony Blair's route - cozy up to Murdoch & the Sun? My skin crawls at the prospect...


‘Course not.

The likes of Mandelson and Blair belong firmly in the past. They’re trying to protect their legacy which worked in 1997 and then started Labour on this slide.

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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:59 - May 16 with 1818 viewsJ2BLUE

Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:48 - May 16 by Yorkshire_Townie

Horribly does Starmer have to go down Tony Blair's route - cozy up to Murdoch & the Sun? My skin crawls at the prospect...


If the only way to power is kissing up to the Sun then we have serious problems.

Truly impaired.
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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 15:23 - May 16 with 1741 viewsStokieBlue

Out of interest did you make the same points about Corbyn when he flatly rejected working with the Greens or any other party to build a progressive alliance?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-rules-out-progressive-allia

On the actual subject an moving away from the "Starmer" angle, it's a good idea and clearly the Greens should have more of a voice going forward.

SB
[Post edited 16 May 2021 15:24]

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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 15:25 - May 16 with 1719 viewsJ2BLUE

Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 15:23 - May 16 by StokieBlue

Out of interest did you make the same points about Corbyn when he flatly rejected working with the Greens or any other party to build a progressive alliance?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-rules-out-progressive-allia

On the actual subject an moving away from the "Starmer" angle, it's a good idea and clearly the Greens should have more of a voice going forward.

SB
[Post edited 16 May 2021 15:24]


That was never really on the table IIRC as the Liberals (I think) were demanding a different Labour leader.

Truly impaired.
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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 15:26 - May 16 with 1705 viewsStokieBlue

Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 15:25 - May 16 by J2BLUE

That was never really on the table IIRC as the Liberals (I think) were demanding a different Labour leader.


That's not relevant though. Corbyn said clearly to the NEC he wouldn't work with any of the other parties to form a progressive alliance regardless of the situation.

Just checking that there is balance being employed with regards to the leadership.

As I said, in general, the Greens should have more of a voice.

SB

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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 15:29 - May 16 with 1693 viewsHARRY10

Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:49 - May 16 by GlasgowBlue

They're all the same these righties H.
[Post edited 16 May 2021 14:49]


I think your guff about Sturgeon and the Indian variant would back that
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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 15:34 - May 16 with 1676 viewsGlasgowBlue

Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 15:29 - May 16 by HARRY10

I think your guff about Sturgeon and the Indian variant would back that


You mean the guff that she put India on the red list on April 19. The same day Johnson did? That guff?

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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 16:08 - May 16 with 1617 viewsHARRY10

Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:33 - May 16 by Darth_Koont

Eh?

A progressive and Green alliance would give Labour a platform it currently lacks. Not to mention being important in the real world.


Utter nonsense, as explained earlier

Much of what the Greens spout is idealistic nonsense that comes from a position of knowing they won't have to put into practice - much as with the Libdems and student grants

Changing political circumstances will always throw up protest parties.... as with the various ones on the right over the past decade or so.

Mouthing platitudes just to gain power is the cause of current (and realistically) historical problems not the answer, as well as being thoroughly dishonest.

If the demise of Labour was as bad as is bleated then it would have lost control of the Welsh government, not won 11 of the 13 mayorships and it would have been totally wiped out in the local elections.
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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 16:42 - May 16 with 1551 viewsEdwardStone

Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 16:08 - May 16 by HARRY10

Utter nonsense, as explained earlier

Much of what the Greens spout is idealistic nonsense that comes from a position of knowing they won't have to put into practice - much as with the Libdems and student grants

Changing political circumstances will always throw up protest parties.... as with the various ones on the right over the past decade or so.

Mouthing platitudes just to gain power is the cause of current (and realistically) historical problems not the answer, as well as being thoroughly dishonest.

If the demise of Labour was as bad as is bleated then it would have lost control of the Welsh government, not won 11 of the 13 mayorships and it would have been totally wiped out in the local elections.


"Idealistic nonsense"

A tad harsh I feel

There is an ecological imperative....humans must change the way we live or the planet will carry on without us

The Green Party offers a set of well reasoned policies to enable a transition to a more sustainable future

Hardly "idealistic nonsense"
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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 16:53 - May 16 with 1526 viewsborge

Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 14:11 - May 16 by Darth_Koont

Who’s “we”?

You’re not going to do that thing again where you take me for a “rightie” are you? I’m attacking the empty centre from the left.


Can someone explain why the centre is 'empty' please....?
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Throwing a lifeline to Starmer on 17:01 - May 16 with 1500 viewstractordownsouth

I like the idea of left and centre-left parties helping each other, but I don't really see where the Greens can benefit from this. Their number 1 target seat is Bristol West but that area currently has a Labour MP so there's no point standing down there. The rest of their targets are a mixture, but they're not exactly winnable - they'd need to overturn 20k majorities to do so. An alliance with the Lib Dems seems most workable and sensible. Of their 20 target seats, 18 are held by the Tories so they seem the best ones to go for. However, I don't think having candidates drop out is the best tactic though - for example, Lib Dems stepping aside for Labour could actually pose problems as some Lib Dems would rather vote Tory than Labour. A better alternative would be to put paper candidates up but for those candidates not to campaign. Fairly certain that the Labour Party constitution requires candidates in every seat anyway.

As an aside, it's difficult to tell if the Greens will actually do anything or if they're just benefiting from the "feck the lot of them" vote that UKIP and the Lib Dems enjoyed over the years. Also will be interesting to see if their vote share is as high in a General Election, where people vote tactically, even without alliances.

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