| Countries that Don't Exist 10:52 - May 27 with 4254 views | Kropotkin123 |
Keno's post also got me thinking about countries that don't exist that could have been really powerful if they existed today.
What do you think would be the most interesting country in terms of changing the political landscape today?
Guidelines are... Try and pick countries that existed for a bit of time of have some cultural ties, as opposed to winning and load of wars and imploding soon after. So yes to the Polish-lithuanian commonwealth but no to nazi Germany.
I'm going for Lotharingia, as it incorporates the "European corridor" that encompasses many of the most profitable cities in Europe. |  |
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 10:53 - May 27 with 2113 views | footers |
Does the Mongol Empire count? That would be one hell of a modern country! |  |
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 10:55 - May 27 with 2097 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Countries that Don't Exist on 10:53 - May 27 by footers |
Does the Mongol Empire count? That would be one hell of a modern country! |
I think its an interesting enough suggestion to count | |
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 10:57 - May 27 with 2090 views | EdwardStone |
Trashcanistan
Slightly seedy, downmarket former Soviet republic where Europe has finished but Asia hasn't begun |  | | |
| Countries that Don't Exist on 10:57 - May 27 with 2088 views | Ewan_Oozami |
Mongol Empire - determined the course of middle east and asian history in terms of the relation ship with Europe...
Edit - beaten by footers....grrrrr [Post edited 27 May 2021 10:58]
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:00 - May 27 with 2045 views | StokieBlue |
The Aztecs if they had pushed back properly against a small force of Spanish conquistadors.
From their location in Central America they would have expanded in both directions and held all of North and South America. Given the resources in those territories they could have been hugely powerful given the right discoveries/stealing of tech.
Imagine a united North and South America in the 1850 with industrialisation.
SB
Edit: Just remembered I actually read a book where this was the premise about 25 years ago, I can't remember if it was any good, probably not!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_Century
[Post edited 27 May 2021 11:02]
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:00 - May 27 with 2031 views | Pinewoodblue |
Alba |  |
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:03 - May 27 with 2009 views | footers |
| Countries that Don't Exist on 10:57 - May 27 by Ewan_Oozami |
Mongol Empire - determined the course of middle east and asian history in terms of the relation ship with Europe...
Edit - beaten by footers....grrrrr [Post edited 27 May 2021 10:58]
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It's big enough to share :) | |
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:07 - May 27 with 1983 views | homer_123 |
Persia. |  |
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:10 - May 27 with 1970 views | Steve_M |
| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:00 - May 27 by StokieBlue |
The Aztecs if they had pushed back properly against a small force of Spanish conquistadors.
From their location in Central America they would have expanded in both directions and held all of North and South America. Given the resources in those territories they could have been hugely powerful given the right discoveries/stealing of tech.
Imagine a united North and South America in the 1850 with industrialisation.
SB
Edit: Just remembered I actually read a book where this was the premise about 25 years ago, I can't remember if it was any good, probably not!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_Century
[Post edited 27 May 2021 11:02]
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Have you read Guns, Germs and Steel? Jared Diamond posits that it would have been much harder for a civilisation to expand on a north-south axis than an east-west one because the change in climate is much more severe meaning the same crops can't spread.
Thus the agricultural revolution. couldn't have happened in the Americas as it did in Eurasia. And also because settlements did spread laterally then diseases, and over time immunity, were also spread that way. Ultimately it was disease as much as technology that made the European conquest of the Americas relatively straightforward.
Just an interesting tangent to your suggestion. |  |
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:10 - May 27 with 1969 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
The Austria-Hungarian Empire was a major player for a while. It incorporated all of present day Czechia in the northwest and went deep into Ukraine. In the south it included present day Bosnia and stretched into Romania. |  |
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:11 - May 27 with 1954 views | Keno |
Prussia |  |
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:20 - May 27 with 1896 views | usm |
I was registering for something online recently and it wanted my nationality - one of the options on the drop down list was Fruit Salad. |  |
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:20 - May 27 with 1909 views | StokieBlue |
| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:10 - May 27 by Steve_M |
Have you read Guns, Germs and Steel? Jared Diamond posits that it would have been much harder for a civilisation to expand on a north-south axis than an east-west one because the change in climate is much more severe meaning the same crops can't spread.
Thus the agricultural revolution. couldn't have happened in the Americas as it did in Eurasia. And also because settlements did spread laterally then diseases, and over time immunity, were also spread that way. Ultimately it was disease as much as technology that made the European conquest of the Americas relatively straightforward.
Just an interesting tangent to your suggestion. |
Thanks, that's interesting, I'll look that up as I hadn't read it and it sounds like a good read.
I was more thinking that the original 500 Spanish were repelled and the Aztecs spent the next 300-400 years developing naturally. Disease wouldn't be an issue as they would still be within their own civilisation and would be repelling any outside invasions.
Given that caveat I don't see why they couldn't expand north and south, crops would be an issue but as they took over tribes they would integrate whatever they grew (as the Inca did further south).
SB | |
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:24 - May 27 with 1901 views | Keno |
| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:20 - May 27 by StokieBlue |
Thanks, that's interesting, I'll look that up as I hadn't read it and it sounds like a good read.
I was more thinking that the original 500 Spanish were repelled and the Aztecs spent the next 300-400 years developing naturally. Disease wouldn't be an issue as they would still be within their own civilisation and would be repelling any outside invasions.
Given that caveat I don't see why they couldn't expand north and south, crops would be an issue but as they took over tribes they would integrate whatever they grew (as the Inca did further south).
SB |
hadn't the Aztecs become very adept at growing crops in different climates in different ways?
I may be thinking of the Incas | |
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:34 - May 27 with 1857 views | BloomBlue |
Sparta, ok more of a City-state than an Country but would be very powerful now especially as they would have more than 300 |  | | |
| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:36 - May 27 with 1845 views | DanTheMan |
| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:10 - May 27 by Steve_M |
Have you read Guns, Germs and Steel? Jared Diamond posits that it would have been much harder for a civilisation to expand on a north-south axis than an east-west one because the change in climate is much more severe meaning the same crops can't spread.
Thus the agricultural revolution. couldn't have happened in the Americas as it did in Eurasia. And also because settlements did spread laterally then diseases, and over time immunity, were also spread that way. Ultimately it was disease as much as technology that made the European conquest of the Americas relatively straightforward.
Just an interesting tangent to your suggestion. |
Just a note, that book is considered to be pretty much nonsense by actual historians. |  |
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:54 - May 27 with 1799 views | Steve_M |
| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:36 - May 27 by DanTheMan |
Just a note, that book is considered to be pretty much nonsense by actual historians. |
Is it, I hadn't seen that anywhere although it's a few years since I read it.
My memory though is that, as an anthropologist, Diamond looks at broad themes rather than enough detail to be considered history. Will have a look later see what criticisms I can find. | |
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:56 - May 27 with 1798 views | Guthrum |
The Songhai Empire and their successors the Ashanti, in West Africa. Would have had a lot of oil wealth, some of which is in modern Nigeria. |  |
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:56 - May 27 with 1794 views | StokieBlue |
| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:24 - May 27 by Keno |
hadn't the Aztecs become very adept at growing crops in different climates in different ways?
I may be thinking of the Incas |
That was the Incas, they used terraces to create microclimates which allowed them to grow different crops in each climate.
If you go to Peru and do the Inca trail the scale of some of the terracing and cities is impressive - you only see them if you do the trail though, not the train directly to Machu Picchu.
Can also see this which isn't on the trail:
https://interestingengineering.com/the-moray-terraces-were-a-15th-century-incan-
SB [Post edited 27 May 2021 11:57]
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 12:12 - May 27 with 1742 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:24 - May 27 by Keno |
hadn't the Aztecs become very adept at growing crops in different climates in different ways?
I may be thinking of the Incas |
Both had ingenious ways. Aztecs had a raft-like farming system - Chinampa. whereas the Incas made steps in the mountains and created drainage systems to naturally push water to irrigate at each step. [Post edited 27 May 2021 12:13]
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 12:12 - May 27 with 1741 views | Keno |
| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:56 - May 27 by StokieBlue |
That was the Incas, they used terraces to create microclimates which allowed them to grow different crops in each climate.
If you go to Peru and do the Inca trail the scale of some of the terracing and cities is impressive - you only see them if you do the trail though, not the train directly to Machu Picchu.
Can also see this which isn't on the trail:
https://interestingengineering.com/the-moray-terraces-were-a-15th-century-incan-
SB [Post edited 27 May 2021 11:57]
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Cheer Stokie,
Ive only ever seen on various TV programmes and must say it looks amazing!! | |
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 12:13 - May 27 with 1739 views | WeWereZombies |
The Zulus. Some, Afrikaner, historians claim that the Zulus only started to move into modern day South Africa, about fifty years before the Dutch although the Wikipedia page on the Bantu migrations suggests much earlier:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_expansion
Perhaps it was the apparent tendency to fight first and talk afterwards that curtailed Zulu expansion, but it would have taken remarkable feats of diplomacy to have overcome first the Dutch settlers, then the British Army, then Apartheid and now the ANC. That the Zulus remain such an identifiable and close knit people I think shows they had potential to be a major force in Africa. |  |
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 12:15 - May 27 with 1726 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Countries that Don't Exist on 11:00 - May 27 by StokieBlue |
The Aztecs if they had pushed back properly against a small force of Spanish conquistadors.
From their location in Central America they would have expanded in both directions and held all of North and South America. Given the resources in those territories they could have been hugely powerful given the right discoveries/stealing of tech.
Imagine a united North and South America in the 1850 with industrialisation.
SB
Edit: Just remembered I actually read a book where this was the premise about 25 years ago, I can't remember if it was any good, probably not!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_Century
[Post edited 27 May 2021 11:02]
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Hadn't heard of Aztec Century, but the concept reminded me of the Ultima/Proxima books by Stephen Baxter, in which realities are created where the Roman Empire and the Incas take over the world. |  | | |
| Countries that Don't Exist on 12:18 - May 27 with 1714 views | StokieBlue |
| Countries that Don't Exist on 12:15 - May 27 by Clapham_Junction |
Hadn't heard of Aztec Century, but the concept reminded me of the Ultima/Proxima books by Stephen Baxter, in which realities are created where the Roman Empire and the Incas take over the world. |
I've read some Baxter (mainly the Xeelee stuff) but hadn't seen those - I'll take a look.
Thanks!
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Countries that Don't Exist on 12:25 - May 27 with 1704 views | Keno |
| Countries that Don't Exist on 12:18 - May 27 by StokieBlue |
I've read some Baxter (mainly the Xeelee stuff) but hadn't seen those - I'll take a look.
Thanks!
SB |
Not particularly connected to this thread but at the height of the Corbyn cult I re-watched the old BBS series 'A Very British Coup', which was actually which amusing
The series I was trying to find was An Englishman's Castle set in the a post Nazi invasion UK | |
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